General political chat

seascape

Well-Known Member
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I'll wade in, but don't plan on spending much time down here. ... But the problem in November wasn't who won. That was Killary! (You know her, "THAT WOMAN!!! EMAILS!!! BENGHAZI!!!")
The only states that vote correctly are Nebraska and Maine. One vote for winning each confessional district plus 2 for winning the state. Having winner takes all in each state is very undemocratic.
No, it is our system that says votes on the populated coasts are worth less than in the middle of nowhere. So backwards states full of people who are less worldly, less educated and less open-minded wind up pushing the country to the right when the reality is the opposite.

And you will never change this Electoral College crapfest. Twice in 15 years now, the winner of the popular vote was not elected President. I get why the EC exists, but it isn't 1894. This isn't working.

Oh, and I hate Trump in case anyone had any doubts at all. Hate him and hate people who voted for him and sent our country and literally the entire planet on a very dangerous path. (And I was no fan of W or Obama, but would give all of my money to have either of them back for four more years!) Very scary times.
The,only states that vote correctly are Nebraska and Maine. One electoral vote for winning eact congressional district and two for winning the state. It is very undemocratic for winner takes all.
 
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xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
That's one more than the 83 combined electoral votes of AL, MS, LA, AR, OK, KS, NE, SD, ND, WY, MT, ID, UT, AZ, AK. Going with the popular vote means that essentially the majors cities and the coasts determine elections. That isn't right either.
Sure it is. Perhaps you didn't see the part where 74 said that only the smart people live on the coast, while the morons live in the middle. Why should moron votes count equal to smart progressive votes?

I don't get how anyone thought Hillary's alleged transgressions were in the same universe as his. There are just a lot of angry, ignorant and hateful people out there.
Angry and hateful indeed. You were of course referring to yourself? yes? Because your 3 posts in this thread are the angriest, most hateful things I have ever read on WDWMagic.
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
In regards to the Electoral College, California and New York (very blue states) combined for 84 electoral votes in the last election.

That's one more than the 83 combined electoral votes of AL, MS, LA, AR, OK, KS, NE, SD, ND, WY, MT, ID, UT, AZ, AK. Going with the popular vote means that essentially the majors cities and the coasts determine elections. That isn't right either.

The electoral college isn't perfect, but Dems need to stop playing the blame game rants on social media and running to their safe zones for coloring books because they lost the election (and this is coming from someone who supported Obama for 8 years)

They're looking for excuses (popular vote, the Russians did it, etc) when the main reason why they lost is because not only did they put up a sub-par, establishment candidate against an outsider, but a candidate who didn't even bother to campaign in states like Wisconsin and Michigan, which lost her the election.

I wish Trump the best (rooting for a President to fail is ridiculous, imo) because if he fails, the country fails. Instead of complaining and blaming everyone else, the Dems need to blame themselves, take responsibility, and focus on 2020. This time let's actually choose someone who doesn't have a cargo load of baggage attached to him or her that gives Trump endless ammunition for counter attacks.
You might want to go have a chat with Paul Ryan. HE admitted that Russia DID interfere with the election. (Not that his admission was necessary after EVERY intelligence service confirmed it.) That makes the election invalid. Plain and simple. Does that mean Hillary won? Nope. It invalidates her popular vote win too. If it was interfered with then it doesn't count. As of right now I have no President. What I do have is a p***ed off rabid raccoon in the White House tearing crap apart and destroying the place. Republicans are using that animal and his behavior as a diversion to be able to do what they want.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
As for Hillary and the Democrats. Think about this. The two most unqualified people elected President are Obama and Trump. I believe Obama ran in 2008 to gain experience. Everyone knew Hillary would win but the Democrats did not want her so they voted for Obama. Then came the crash and whoever was the Democratic Candidate was going to win. She was a loser in 2008 and the Democrats were stupid to believe that Obama won because he was a political genius. They did not learn the real lesson from 2008 that the public did not want another Clinton. The public did not want another Bush either and that is why we have Trump. He is not Hillary and it's the same reason we had Obama.
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
@WDW1974 said
"No, it is our system that says votes on the populated coasts are worth less than in the middle of nowhere. So backwards states full of people who are less worldly, less educated and less open-minded wind up pushing the country to the right when the reality is the opposite."

Which might be a reason the Democrats lost many votes of those in the middle of nowhere who do not fit your stereotype. Many got tired of those living in the Northeast corridor (they lump those living on the Southern coast with those in the middle of nowhere) and the West coast looking down their collective noses at them, despite their being well educated, worldly, and open-minded. Their sin was living anyplace in the middle - despite having a better quality of life or other reasons for doing so. Their years of voting for Democrats and championing Progressive causes didn't change that attitude. Would their votes have been enough to counteract the deplorables around them ? We' ll never know.

Not only did they have to battle the attitudes of those around them, but that of their supposed allies.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
I wont bother inline quoting everything.

1. The Electoral Collage was created so that regional candidates don't always win. At the time it was so that Philadelphia and New York didnt decide whom was elected, now its so New York and California do not. Flyover country matters. Jimmy Carter now has a wide grin on his face as he's no longer considered the worst modern President.

2. Hillary's campaign staff had contact with the Russians, so that attempt at explaining the failure of that flawed candidate isnt holding up too well. Most of the media showed a definite bias and fell on their faces when the populist candidate won. Lets not devolve into the "optics' drive policies of the last administration.

3. Sorry, but there are people such as myself who didnt want the community organizer from Chicago to become our President either, but he did so deal with it. Because someone does not agree with your political and personal philosophy doesn't make them ignorant and hateful, it just exposes yourself as intolerant of different viewpoints the very same thing you accuse other of.
 
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CaptainAmerica

Well-Known Member
Many who voted for Trump were just that, Trump supporters NOT Republicans.
Yup, and Trump managed to get the "normal" Republicans too because they disliked Clinton so much. There were a lot of pro-Trump, anti-Trump, and anti-Clinton voters in this cycle, but not many folks were affirmatively pro-Clinton.

The Democrats made a strategic mistake because they went all-in on the "Obama coalition" about a decade too soon. Ever since Obama's first campaign, the Democrats were banking on the fact that they'd be able to win national elections by focusing on targeted demographic groups: blacks, Hispanics, women, gays, and millennials, in no particular order. To accomplish that, they went all in on the social justice stuff and essentially abandoned white working class voters. But Hillary Clinton was unable to generate the enthusiasm among these groups that Obama did. Trump significantly over-performed recent Republicans even among union households, which is usually a solid Democrat constituency. It was cultural, as much as it was political. Folks in the middle of the country were sick of being called racist/sexist/bigot/homophobes.

Full disclosure, I'm a right-libertarian / classical liberal for those who like to label things. I supported Rand Paul, then Marco Rubio, then Ted Cruz, then finally voted for Trump for SCOTUS purposes.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
There's an anonymous quote from an American voter I'll never forget:

"Democracts are for [minorities], Republicans are for rich people. Who's for me?"

Are we really surprised after years of neglect from Politicians, the economy and the media that white, lower-income and middle Americans would one day revolt and jump on the first national candidate who spoke directly to them?

I don't believe a man from NYC born with a silver spoon in his mouth is really for these people any more than a used car salesman would, but he knew how to play to this crowd to maximum effect.
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but there are people such as myself who didnt want the community organizer from Chicago to become our President either, but he did so deal with it. Because someone does not agree with your political and personal philosophy doesn't make them ignorant and hateful, it just exposes yourself as intolerant of different viewpoints the very same thing you accuse other of.
Oh, if it were only that simple. "just go along with it. Everything will be fine." No. It will not be fine. I could care less who gets that office but Trump is one of a handful of psychopaths that I do NOT want in there. They all lie but I have never in my life seen a person lie as much as Trump. He whined and complained throughout 44's term that he was playing too much golf and wasting too much money. ?!?!?!?! 9, yes 9 golf trips in 7 weeks. And $400k per day to house the Princess in her NY tower?!?! Yeah. Trump is fighting for the "little people" in this country. He has failed/refused to follow through on every single campaign promise he made Republicans and they love him for it. He is trying to dismantle the EPA because scientifically proven facts about climate change are just alternatives to the truth. He is allowing processing plants to dump in streams and rivers again. He promised that he would clean up the swamp in Washington. He blasted HRC for having a lunch with Goldman-Sachs and said she was "in bed with them". Then he turned around and hired a ton of them for his administration. ?!?!?! The list goes on and on and on with this moron.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
One thing is for sure. Changing to the popular vote for future elections requires an amendment to the Constitution, which the states would have to approve. There is no way that states are going to give up power to the group think of California and the northeast.

So...next time, campaign more in Wisconsin.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Oh, if it were only that simple. "just go along with it. Everything will be fine." No. It will not be fine. .
And it hasnt been fine for the years of 44's blundering on a global scale destabilizing the Middle East even more that it was. Oh lets give up isnt a a good foreign policy.
 

CaptainAmerica

Well-Known Member
One thing is for sure. Changing to the popular vote for future elections requires an amendment to the Constitution, which the states would have to approve. There is no way that states are going to give up power to the group think of California and the northeast.

So...next time, campaign more in Wisconsin.
The popular vote argument is bunk anyways. You can't say "Clinton would have won if we had a popular vote system" because the campaigns would have campaigned differently and the voters would have voted differently in a popular vote election. If I'm a Republican in California, I'm staying home, especially when you consider that BOTH senate candidates on the ballot were Democrats. Thus, suppressed Republican turnout in the deep blue states favors Clinton's popular vote result. But if the popular voter were actually going to determine the outcome of the election, all of those people show up to vote.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Are we really surprised after years of neglect from Politicians, the economy and the media that white, lower-income and middle Americans would one day revolt and jump on the first national candidate who spoke directly to them?

I don't believe a man from NYC born with a silver spoon in his mouth is really for these people any more than a used car salesman would, but he knew how to play to this crowd to maximum effect.
Any port in a storm. The working class has become so disenfranchised with our government that they voted for the first person who promised to blow it up.

I think all the other reasons everyone's quoting are ancillary. The folks I know who went Trump, did so out of complete disdain for our current political system.
 

hakunamatata

Beautiful
Premium Member
Oh, and I hate Trump in case anyone had any doubts at all. Hate him and hate people who voted for him and sent our country and literally the entire planet on a very dangerous path. (And I was no fan of W or Obama, but would give all of my money to have either of them back for four more years!) Very scary times.
Maybe hate is why we are in the mess we are in.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
You might want to go have a chat with Paul Ryan. HE admitted that Russia DID interfere with the election. (Not that his admission was necessary after EVERY intelligence service confirmed it.) That makes the election invalid. Plain and simple. Does that mean Hillary won? Nope. It invalidates her popular vote win too. If it was interfered with then it doesn't count. As of right now I have no President. What I do have is a p***ed off rabid raccoon in the White House tearing crap apart and destroying the place. Republicans are using that animal and his behavior as a diversion to be able to do what they want.
I just am confused why people get so triggered if someone doesn't name-call our President or use over-the-top rhetoric to disavow him.

I can see this thread turning into a giant brick wall -- I had responses last night to @WDW1974 -- but I simply deleted them because it's opinions like this and his that you really can't have a rational conversation with.

I don't judge people by their political beliefs (everyone is entitled to their opinions) but I'm not going to debate the legitimacy of the election when people are using Paul Ryan as a source of validity or holding onto claims that "the Russians did it"

No, Hillary and the Dems did it to themselves.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Splendid *applause* One of the reasons I no longer strongly identify with the left is because of this snobbish attitude they have for people across the traditionally more conservative areas of the country. Like I get so aggravated at Democrats who insist that every single person who lives in bum heck nowhere, rural North Carolina for instance (where I'm from), are dummer than dirt. Sorry but having spent 18 years of my life there, that's not true. Are they maybe a bit "backwards" (using this word lightly) on certain social issues. Sure. But who cares? When you have certain candidates going around and preaching every and anyone who doesn't bow down to her are wicked, what do you think those people will think/feel. I don't particularly care for Trump, but he's the only presidential candidate to ever visit my part of North Carolina, twice. Flawed as he is, he at least made an effort to reach out to this demographic which is something "Saint Hillary" or any one the Dems even attempted to do because they see themselves as 'too good' for that class of people. Were there some crazy zealots who voted for the current POTUS out of blind love, absolutely. But everyone I know made an educated, yes, voted for him because they felt he best aligned with their values. Maybe when liberals learn that not everyone who refuses to kiss their butts aren't minions of Satan, they'll get some respect.
Or that "women" should vote for a "woman", and if you don't support a woman then you are not a feminist.
Feminism is about equality, not special treatment. Someday, a woman will be elected as our President... that day will be great, but it should never be BECAUSE a woman was running.
I would feel the same regardless of Dem or Republican. Platforms can win, we don't always have to be obsessed with making "history".
 
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