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General political chat

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
What facts did you present about govt contractors? What facts have you presented about any of this?
That government contractors, historically, don’t get paid back after a shut down ends. That is a fact. And that currently there is a bill to get them payment after this shut down, but it has not cleared both houses.

Also shared the fact that there’s a bill awaiting signature now for government civilians to get paid (when shared, I was clarifying that this only applies to government civilians, not contractors, which again is a fact).

So sorry I didn’t provide links the first time. It’s hard to know when links are Ok here now and when they’ll be dismissed.

I have also responded to the solutions given here a few times. Loans may be an option for some, may not be for others. Getting a second job, as has been suggested here multiple times, has NOT been possible for many others due to the need for approval to hold that second job not being able to be given because those who would approve are on furlough also.

You have taken my comments and made them extreme, as though I was painting all federal workers in that manner when I was doing nothing of the kind. Please stop.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
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How disgusting. This disgusting post epitomizes every single thing about the hard right on here who lack the slightest bit of empathy for their fellow human beings. Totally and completely disgusting.

So it is now about putting the right on a quilt trip about empathy. How about empathy for the US citizens that have their wages undercut by illegal immigrants?

How about empathy for those that have lost loved ones to a criminal act by an illegal immigrant? Not one of top four govt officials in California attended the funeral of Ronil Singh.

How about those standing in line to enter this country legally and the illegals cut in front of them?
How about the 127 Border Patrol agents that have lost their lives defending our border.

How about the women raped making the trip to our borders?
How the abuses of the children by coyotes, drug cartels, and their own parents taking them on the long trip from Central America to our borders?

Now what were you saying about empathy?
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
So you’re saying they were struggling before they ever missed a check? No one thought to make arrangements prior to Friday?

I’m sorry, but I can feel empathy for the frustrations people must feel, but the way you’ve been talking is like this happened weeks ago.. no one has been able to pay their bills, and no one had time to plan.
That is your assumption and interpretation, not what I’ve said. Those are different things.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
That is your assumption and interpretation, not what I’ve said. Those are different things.
You literally said that people have been struggling.

Doesn’t matter now, I do hope that you (General you to anyone who has repeatedly spoken about struggling) recommend for the workers to seek unemployment (I think govt workers are allowed to do this) or a loan, if you hear more people talk about struggling. It’s tough to see clearly when going thru a difficult time, useful solutions are always better than pity.
 
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Jim S

Well-Known Member
That government contractors, historically, don’t get paid back after a shut down ends. That is a fact. And that currently there is a bill to get them payment after this shut down, but it has not cleared both houses.

Also shared the fact that there’s a bill awaiting signature now for government civilians to get paid (when shared, I was clarifying that this only applies to government civilians, not contractors, which again is a fact).

So sorry I didn’t provide links the first time. It’s hard to know when links are Ok here now and when they’ll be dismissed.

I have also responded to the solutions given here a few times. Loans may be an option for some, may not be for others. Getting a second job, as has been suggested here multiple times, has NOT been possible for many others due to the need for approval to hold that second job not being able to be given because those who would approve are on furlough also.

You have taken my comments and made them extreme, as though I was painting all federal workers in that manner when I was doing nothing of the kind. Please stop.

Govt contractors problems are just a bridge too far for me. The amount of money the govt throws at contractors is obscene esp in and around the DC area. When 7 of the richest counties in America are in and around Washington DC I think contractors are probably doing very well in the that area.
Even govt contracts outside of DC area are quite lucrative. Plus crony capitalism plays a big role in which contractors get those jobs.

I have not made your comments extreme and wish you would stop making that accusation.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Ah, time to pull out the “poor helpless single mom” stories..

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2538807002

But the single mother now finds herself among their ranks thanks to the partial government shutdown that’s left her furloughed and without a paycheck.

“When they say, ‘one paycheck away from homeless,’ I’m not there, but I’m real close. And it’s disturbing,” said McLaurin, a 28-year IRS veteran who works out of the agency’s Philadelphia office.


Make them all look helpless, and blame Trump.
Pity is always more popular than triumph, especially when it can be used for political advantage. What I don’t understand, like really don’t understand, is why millions of Americans aren’t imploring their Democrat Congresspeople to make a deal, offer some kind of deal.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
Govt contractors problems are just a bridge too far for me. The amount of money the govt throws at contractors is obscene esp in and around the DC area. When 7 of the richest counties in America are in and around Washington DC I think contractors are probably doing very well in the that area.
Even govt contracts outside of DC area are quite lucrative. Plus crony capitalism plays a big role in which contractors get those jobs.

I have not made your comments extreme and wish you would stop making that accusation.
You think contractors are all making tons of money? Read hat link I posted again. It is legislation specifically to pay back low and middle income contractors.

Low-wage service contract workers perform jobs that are absolutely vital to the government, such as food service, security and custodial work,” the letter stated. “Many of these workers live paycheck-to-paycheck, and cannot afford to pay their rent and other bills if the shutdown continues.”
You think food service, custodians, janitors have high salaries here? Let me assure you, they don’t.

Yes, there are absolutely wealthy counties here. There is also poverty right alongside it. There are children at my daughter’s school who struggle - regularly, not because of the shutdown - to have food on the weekends to the point that the school has partnered with a local church operating a food bank to bring food to the school each Friday for families to bring home so the kids can eat on the weekend.

The fact that there are million dollar homes down the road doesn’t change that there is also poverty happening here. It’s one of the things this area likes to ignore.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
You literally said that people have been struggling.

Doesn’t matter now, I do hope that you (General you to anyone who has repeatedly spoken about struggling) recommend for the workers to seek unemployment (I think govt workers are allowed to do this) or a loan, if you hear more people talk about struggling. It’s tough to see clearly when going thru a difficult time, useful solutions are always better than pity.
And people are struggling. Is it really so hard to fathom? There are multiple issues at play.

One instance - daycare. No, furloughed workers don’t need daycare right now in many cases - *except* - they lose their spots if they don’t pay. There are families who knew the moment that this happened that they couldn’t afford to keep paying daycare if they weren’t getting a paycheck, yet also can’t afford *not* to pay daycare and lose their children’s spots because they need those spots once the shutdown is over. Waitlists for daycare around here are massive. Before and after school care sign ups through the school happen like a full year before the actual school year the care is for, and waitlists are forever long. Add in any special needs (which significantly limits which daycares will accept a child), and I understand why a family in that situation would be struggling before missing a paycheck. The daycares don’t need to provide any assistance or leeway for government workers because they have waitlists - so they aren’t. They need the daycare money to go elsewhere while they aren’t getting a paycheck, but also can’t afford to lose the daycare. Short term loans aren’t an option for everyone, for a variety of reasons. Trust me when I say the community is banding together to provide as many resources for people as possible. It isn’t as easy as you’re dismissing it to be here.

This is just one example of how a family could be feeling the struggle before having actually missed a paycheck.
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
And people are struggling. Is it really so hard to fathom? There are multiple issues at play.

One instance - daycare. No, furloughed workers don’t need daycare right now in many cases - *except* - they lose their spots if they don’t pay. There are families who knew the moment that this happened that they couldn’t afford to keep paying daycare if they weren’t getting a paycheck, yet also can’t afford *not* to pay daycare and lose their children’s spots because they need those spots once the shutdown is over. Waitlists for daycare around here are massive. Before and after school care sign ups through the school happen like a full year before the actual school year the care is for, and waitlists are forever long. Add in any special needs (which significantly limits which daycares will accept a child), and I understand why a family in that situation would be struggling before missing a paycheck. The daycares don’t need to provide any assistance or leeway for government workers because they have waitlists - so they aren’t. They need the daycare money to go elsewhere while they aren’t getting a paycheck, but also can’t afford to lose the daycare. Short term loans aren’t an option for everyone, for a variety of reasons. Trust me when I say the community is banding together to provide as many resources for people as possible. It isn’t as easy as you’re dismissing it to be here.

This is just one example of how a family could be feeling the struggle before having actually missed a paycheck.
I wonder how many paychecks will it take to see an ounce of empathy from some people on here. Obviously if you are struggling from missing one check then it’s your fault. (That’s sarcasm for the literal minded people on here). But how about two? Or five?? Or 10???
 

sedati

Well-Known Member
I see the proposed border wall as a symbol and the result of hate and fear.
Many don't have a problem with the hate part, but how are you on the fear part? This sends a signal. We claim power, and yet we cannot deal with what's on the other side of this wall. A strong wall is not a symbol of strength. It says loudly and clearly that we are the weak and fearful ones.
This isn't to say there shouldn't be a protected border. But letting the whole world watch us cower behind an unending and permanent blockade is (to me) the equivalent of not only tearing down Lady Liberty, but akin to strapping an adult diaper on Uncle Sam who has apparently become pants-loading scared of outsiders.
 

OneofThree

Well-Known Member
According to Forbes it's 78% of US workers living paycheck to paycheck in this booming economy.

This is just from 2 days ago.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2019/01/11/live-paycheck-to-paycheck-government-shutdown/#6b25ce314f10
Though your post fails to accurately identify the real issue, the article does not:

"For example, here are some findings from the survey:

Nearly one in 10 workers making $100,000+ live paycheck to paycheck
More than 1 in 4 workers do not set aside any savings each month
Nearly 3 in 4 workers say they are in debt - and more than half think they always will be
More than half of minimum wage workers say they have to work more than one job to make ends meet
28% of workers making $50,000-$99,999 usually or always live paycheck to paycheck, and 70% are in debt
The survey also found that 32% of the nearly 3,500 full-time workers surveyed use a budget and only 56% save $100 or less a month."


https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/general-political-chat.925247/post-8524681

To be fair, I don't believe TSA workers are highly compensated. But if their financial management practices are in keeping with many their higher-bracketed counterparts, they aren't saving when they're able either.
 

OneofThree

Well-Known Member
I see the proposed border wall as a symbol and the result of hate and fear.
Many don't have a problem with the hate part, but how are you on the fear part? This sends a signal. We claim power, and yet we cannot deal with what's on the other side of this wall. A strong wall is not a symbol of strength. It says loudly and clearly that we are the weak and fearful ones.
This isn't to say there shouldn't be a protected border. But letting the whole world watch us cower behind an unending and permanent blockade is (to me) the equivalent of not only tearing down Lady Liberty, but akin to strapping an adult diaper on Uncle Sam who has apparently become pants-loading scared of outsiders.
Remove the straw man and you remove the entire basis for your post. I'm not pro-wall, but please, spare us the "fear" and "hate" buzzwords. My programming package includes CNN.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
And people are struggling. Is it really so hard to fathom? There are multiple issues at play.

One instance - daycare. No, furloughed workers don’t need daycare right now in many cases - *except* - they lose their spots if they don’t pay. There are families who knew the moment that this happened that they couldn’t afford to keep paying daycare if they weren’t getting a paycheck, yet also can’t afford *not* to pay daycare and lose their children’s spots because they need those spots once the shutdown is over. Waitlists for daycare around here are massive. Before and after school care sign ups through the school happen like a full year before the actual school year the care is for, and waitlists are forever long. Add in any special needs (which significantly limits which daycares will accept a child), and I understand why a family in that situation would be struggling before missing a paycheck. The daycares don’t need to provide any assistance or leeway for government workers because they have waitlists - so they aren’t. They need the daycare money to go elsewhere while they aren’t getting a paycheck, but also can’t afford to lose the daycare. Short term loans aren’t an option for everyone, for a variety of reasons. Trust me when I say the community is banding together to provide as many resources for people as possible. It isn’t as easy as you’re dismissing it to be here.

This is just one example of how a family could be feeling the struggle before having actually missed a paycheck.
You’re entire post assumes that the people in question-

A. Don’t have savings.
B. Don’t have access to a loan.
C. Don’t have access to unemployment benefits.

I get it, this situation is not fun, it’s not good.. but you assume a lot in your posts. Many situations are not going to be so extreme, and if you believe they are, then this is one more example of why so many should be urginging the Democrats to compromise.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
It says loudly and clearly that we are the weak and fearful ones.
Bingo. And shutting down the government over it is a self-inflicted wound that further shows so-called American weakness and incompetence with respect to governance, or of democracy writ large. It's as if Trump is working to diminish US stature in the world. Bonus that it fractures the US relationship with Mexico (our ally). (Same goes for the migrant-refugee crisis in Europe and Brexit.)
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
I like Forbes, but that headline is misleading in this scenario.

Look at the stats for income brackets.

Do you think we have another person that reads the headlines and post an article that fits a narrative yet didn't read the article. People making very nice salaries living pay check to pay check. This sounds more like irresponsible behavior.

People that get ahead live on less than they make. Age old formula for financial success.
Stagnant wages for 16 years from 2000-2016. Hopefully this economy can continue to grow and the recent rises in wages will let more people get their finances in a better position.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I wonder how many paychecks will it take to see an ounce of empathy from some people on here. Obviously if you are struggling from missing one check then it’s your fault. (That’s sarcasm for the literal minded people on here). But how about two? Or five?? Or 10???
People are pretending this is akin to a natural disaster situation. The shutdown is rough, it’s not fair to the people who are feeling an impact, but the extreme utterly helpless near collapse picture being painted.. stop. Just stop. There are options. A person can have empathy without going to such a dramatic result.
I just can’t get over how so many of you think your fellow Americans are so helpless . It’s really sad.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Do you think we have another person that reads the headlines and post an article that fits a narrative yet didn't read the article. People making very nice salaries living pay check to pay check. This sounds more like irresponsible behavior.

People that get ahead live on less than they make. Age old formula for financial success.
Stagnant wages for 16 years from 2000-2016. Hopefully this economy can continue to grow and the recent rises in wages will let more people get their finances in a better position.
.. it’s not their fault.. it’s someone else’s. ;)
 
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