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General political chat

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
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In Texas if we didn't spend a fortune on illegals we would have more than enough money for other programs and reduce our dependency on federal money and expensive mandates. Why even teachers could get long overdue pay raises.

Using the proposed funding for the wall as an excuse for not funding other programs is a hard logic to follow considering the massive federal budget.
You’re missing the point. It isn’t about states choosing to receive this money. It is federal *law* that the federal government provide this money. Has been for over 40 years. It isn’t about whether the states need it or not, TBH. It’s there because when states had the choice, they were not using it to appropriately educate students with disabilities. And in many places educating students with disabilities appropriately is still nowhere high on the priority list, so you’ll have to excuse me for having absolutely no faith that states will put the money there on their own.
 

draybook

Well-Known Member
We’re supposed to do something wasteful and pointless just because some nut convinced his minority followers it’s a great idea?

If Trump said you should jump off a bridge, or he won’t reopen the government...

Numerous politicians have been down this path and quotes have been provided. Yet all you're doing is railing against Donny. You are one of the sheep that CNN thrives off of.
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
Do liberals really believe people are this helpless and dependent.
Apparently. Look, I know a lot of Americans are wasteful and live above their means.. but to assume that a majority of federal workers, those with good benefits even if not on a high pay scale, have no kind of back up plan at all? No way to take care of themselves?
I don’t know, it doesn’t show a lot of faith in the strength of people.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
So now we are to feel sorry for govt contractors. A good business would have other customers than the govt, would have prepared for the possibility of a govt shutdown, and should have an agreement with their banker as to how to bridge the problems created by a govt shutdown.

But I know people are so helpless they can't figure out any of these things. Do liberals really believe people are this helpless and dependent. I am getting a head ache listening to all of these excuses you keep coming up with.
Where the heck did I say anything about feeling sorry for anyone? All I was doing was clarifying who will get paid, because it isn’t all government workers. Providing facts, as it were, not feelings.

Providing clarifying facts for a situation is not telling anyone to feel sorry for anyone.

And, for the last time, stop putting these words of the last paragraph in my mouth. No I don’t believe anyone is helpless or dependent. I do SEE - physically, in person, people struggling because they have not been paid. That does not make them helpless or dependent in my eyes. It may in *your eyes*, but not in mine.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
On the other hand, a few people here are speaking as if it would be impossible to have any type of savings. As if they know it as fact.
The only thing I have spoken to is as fact is that I have physically *seen* people here who very much are struggling due to this shutdown. Do they have savings? No idea. I just see their statements that they are struggling. I don’t feel the need to ask them about their savings status - I am taking them at their word. Believe me or not, I really don’t care, but it is happening. I am not claiming it is most, I am not claiming percentages - just that I am seeing it happen in person. My comments on this aren’t from news stations or internet stories - but first hand observation.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
When reasonable people have an idea that sounds good at first, but turns out to have significant flaws upon closer scrutiny, they are able to learn and self-correct - no matter how much they may have liked the sound of the original idea.

So if someone thinks, “Oh! A wall is an impenetrable barrier, clearly worth a $10 billion+ investment to control our border” but then is presented with any sentence containing the words ‘airplane,’ ‘tunnel,’ ‘ladder,’ or ‘boat,’ they should just say, “Oh, well - seemed like a good idea at first.”

Someone who digs in as if those things haven’t been brought to their attention should not be entrusted with making any important decisions.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Where the heck did I say anything about feeling sorry for anyone? All I was doing was clarifying who will get paid, because it isn’t all government workers. Providing facts, as it were, not feelings.

Providing clarifying facts for a situation is not telling anyone to feel sorry for anyone.

And, for the last time, stop putting these words of the last paragraph in my mouth. No I don’t believe anyone is helpless or dependent. I do SEE - physically, in person, people struggling because they have not been paid. That does not make them helpless or dependent in my eyes. It may in *your eyes*, but not in mine.
I feel bad for them. It’s called being human, American, Christian.

None of them did anything to deserve being thrown into limbo.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Where the heck did I say anything about feeling sorry for anyone? All I was doing was clarifying who will get paid, because it isn’t all government workers. Providing facts, as it were, not feelings.

Providing clarifying facts for a situation is not telling anyone to feel sorry for anyone.

And, for the last time, stop putting these words of the last paragraph in my mouth. No I don’t believe anyone is helpless or dependent. I do SEE - physically, in person, people struggling because they have not been paid. That does not make them helpless or dependent in my eyes. It may in *your eyes*, but not in mine.
Please look at it this way.. we’re not talking about disaster victims, most if not all will get paid eventually. Annoying and frustrating as it is, those people (without savings) can go to their financial institution, take a loan, repay loan when money comes back in, with minimal interest.

There are solutions, and then there is only focusing on a negative. Maybe suggest a loan to a friend if they’re struggling.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I feel bad for them. It’s called being human, American, Christian.

None of them did anything to deserve being thrown into limbo.
No, they didn’t. Life throws curveballs sometimes.. and if you have a job where you could have an impact from a shutdown, and see that a shutdown is being talked about for quite some time.. then make arrangements.

We must have faith that people aren’t as weak as too many pretend them to be.

In the meantime.. tell Dems to have a seat at the table, if people really care.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
The only thing I have spoken to is as fact is that I have physically *seen* people here who very much are struggling due to this shutdown. Do they have savings? No idea. I just see their statements that they are struggling. I don’t feel the need to ask them about their savings status - I am taking them at their word. Believe me or not, I really don’t care, but it is happening. I am not claiming it is most, I am not claiming percentages - just that I am seeing it happen in person. My comments on this aren’t from news stations or internet stories - but first hand observation.

I see people every day in the private sector that struggled for years because wages were stagnate and jobs were limited. They would have loved to had a stable get a pay raise every year position with the govt.

What number of people are you talking about?

I am just not joining the pity party yet since they just missed their first pay check on Friday and they are already struggling. Are there some details I am missing?
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I see people every day in the private sector that struggled for years because wages were stagnate and jobs were limited. They would have loved to had a stable get a pay raise every year position with the govt.

What number of people are you talking about?

I am just not joining the pity party yet since they just missed their first pay check on Friday and they are already struggling. Are there some details I am missing?
Is this true? Friday was the first payday when they didn’t receive a check?


***edit*** I just googled. You’re correct, Jim. I was totally duped the past few pages. Wow. Shame on me for allowing it to happen.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
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I see people every day in the private sector that struggled for years because wages were stagnate and jobs were limited. They would have loved to had a stable get a pay raise every year position with the govt.

What number of people are you talking about?

I am just not joining the pity party yet since they just missed their first pay check on Friday and they are already struggling. Are there some details I am missing?
I am not making claims on numbers. Never was. I haven’t once tried to say this is all federal workers, or most - just said that it is a real issue that shouldn’t be dismissed as it has been here. That there are, In fact, real people struggling. I am not providing details as to how specifically people are struggling because these stories were shared in private, local groups, not to the general public and I wouldn’t want someone sharing something I shared there online like this - so golden rule and all. Like I said , you can believe me or not, I
That’s your choice. But do not put words into my mouth regarding how I view anyone who may be struggling. I do not *pity* them - I am *angry* for them as no one in this country should be forced to work without getting paid as so many are right now.

Curious q - has anyone else called their senators and Representative to put pressure on them to resolve this situation?
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
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I am not making claims on numbers. Never was. I haven’t once tried to say this is all federal workers, or most - just said that it is a real issue that shouldn’t be dismissed as it has been here. That there are, In fact, real people struggling. I am not providing details as to how specifically people are struggling because these stories were shared in private, local groups, not to the general public and I wouldn’t want someone sharing something I shared there online like this - so golden rule and all. Like I said , you can believe me or not, I
That’s your choice. But do not put words into my mouth regarding how I view anyone who may be struggling. I do not *pity* them - I am *angry* for them as no one in this country should be forced to work without getting paid as so many are right now.

Curious q - has anyone else called their senators and Representative to put pressure on them to resolve this situation?
Before the shutdown even happened, more after. I know a lot of people who did. There’s several petitions going around, and local clubs are encouraging people to write/sign/call.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
Where the heck did I say anything about feeling sorry for anyone? All I was doing was clarifying who will get paid, because it isn’t all government workers. Providing facts, as it were, not feelings.

Providing clarifying facts for a situation is not telling anyone to feel sorry for anyone.

And, for the last time, stop putting these words of the last paragraph in my mouth. No I don’t believe anyone is helpless or dependent. I do SEE - physically, in person, people struggling because they have not been paid. That does not make them helpless or dependent in my eyes. It may in *your eyes*, but not in mine.

What facts did you present about govt contractors? What facts have you presented about any of this? You see people are hurting or struggling because of this govt shutdown, while I appreciate your compassion for them those are not facts.

What exactly do you see that indicates they are struggling? Friday was the first paycheck they missed but you have been talking about their struggles for a few days now-if these are anticipated struggles that is a different story.

No one is denying missing a pay check may cause difficulties but a number of posters, including myself, have offered practical solutions.
A loan with the guaranteed future pay check for these govt workers is a deal any good bank would take .

Private sector workers don't have that luxury. Many of us when young kept expenses as low as possible. A loss of a job would mean getting a part time job and make enough to at least pay the rent and have some food on the table. That meant living in some crummy places and driving older vehicles.

I am not joining the pity party yet and will continue to believe most responsible people will do just fine. My wife and I often remember our poor struggling days as the happiest days of our life-but all in hindsight. And no we don't want to go back.

This is a nation of compassionate people and these people are going to be fine.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
No one was duping you. I assumed that was common knowledge. It’s been pretty widely stated in what I have seen.
So you’re saying they were struggling before they ever missed a check? No one thought to make arrangements prior to Friday?

I’m sorry, but I can feel empathy for the frustrations people must feel, but the way you’ve been talking is like this happened weeks ago.. no one has been able to pay their bills, and no one had time to plan.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
What exactly do you see that indicates they are struggling?
Yeah, it’s not meshing.

No one is denying missing a pay check may cause difficulties but a number of posters, including myself, have offered practical solutions.
A loan with the guaranteed future pay check for these govt workers is a deal any good bank would take
I just had to quote this again, for emphasis.
 
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