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General political chat

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
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You didn't have to. Your post wasn't about the when, it was about the how. I'm not so sure that isn't worse.
You would actually be wrong about my personal beliefs regarding when life begins.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
I cannot fathom forcing a woman who has already had power over her own body forcibly taken from her in one of the most traumatic and violating ways possible, and telling her that she has no choice about whether or not to carry a resulting child to term. Continuing to take choice over her own body away from her, having a very physical reminder every single day for 9+ months If a woman *chooses* that, that’s one thing. But to force that upon her is to be no different than the rapist that took her choice away in the first place.

Consensual sex is an entirely different issue than rape.
 

OneofThree

Well-Known Member
I cannot fathom forcing a woman who has already had power over her own body forcibly taken from her in one of the most traumatic and violating ways possible, and telling her that she has no choice about whether or not to carry a resulting child to term. Continuing to take choice over her own body away from her, having a very physical reminder every single day for 9+ months If a woman *chooses* that, that’s one thing. But to force that upon her is to be no different than the rapist that took her choice away in the first place.

Consensual sex is an entirely different issue than rape.
There is no justification for murder, not even the most reprehensible of things. The equation does not change. The child is a life, a most innocent one. Bad _ _ _ _ happening does not afford license.
 

Gitson Shiggles

There was me, that is Mickey, and my three droogs
I cannot fathom forcing a woman who has already had power over her own body forcibly taken from her in one of the most traumatic and violating ways possible, and telling her that she has no choice about whether or not to carry a resulting child to term. Continuing to take choice over her own body away from her, having a very physical reminder every single day for 9+ months If a woman *chooses* that, that’s one thing. But to force that upon her is to be no different than the rapist that took her choice away in the first place.

Consensual sex is an entirely different issue than rape.
A natural process wouldn’t be forced. Call it what it is—the intentional killing of a unique human life; the forced termination of life processes in that human body. Even making it benign as possible sounds pretty damning.
 
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Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
So the baby then is less a person due to the circumstances of conception? Just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly.
I actually get this perspective, just can’t force others to live by it.

If my best girlfriend or my sister was, God forbid, raped and impregnated; and if and only if she asked my opinion, I would suggest adoption.

I can’t bring myself to force her to do it (under the law.)
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
I actually get this perspective, just can’t force others to live by it.

If my best girlfriend or my sister was, God forbid, raped and impregnated; and if and only if she asked my opinion, I would suggest adoption.

I can’t bring myself to force her to do it (under the law.)
Thank you For understanding what I was getting at.
 

OneofThree

Well-Known Member
I actually get this perspective, just can’t force others to live by it.

If my best girlfriend or my sister was, God forbid, raped and impregnated; and if and only if she asked my opinion, I would suggest adoption.

I can’t bring myself to force her to do it (under the law.)
I understand where you're coming from. At the same time, the issue seems to inevitably reduce to how we, as a society, govern ourselves when it comes to murder.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Yes. An innocent human life shouldn’t be forced to die because of someone else’s evil act.
There is no justification for murder, not even the most reprehensible of things. The equation does not change. The child is a life, a most innocent one. Bad _ _ _ _ happening does not afford license.
I understand. It’s a lot easier when you don’t have to make a choice. You just follow orders, do as you’re told. No struggle or thought required, and you can’t be blamed, right?

It’s a lot easier when you’ll never have to deal with the fallout, either.

I held these positions when I was young and naive. You folks are too old to be naive, and so am I. Glad I wised up.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
I don’t remember any biology on my music teaching certification test, but I do know that a sperm will naturally fertilize an egg.
Yes, I’m aware of the birds and the bees. The snark is unnecessary. You missed my point.

This figure (source?) says nothing about pregnancies that result from rape. And killing the unique human life that shares 50% of their genes is all part of the healing process, eh?
Source:
https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/mentalimpact.shtml

And please don’t put words in my mouth. How people heal is an individual process. For some, they may heal by having the baby. For others, it can retraumatize. The victim should be able to decide that for herself since she had no choice in the act itself.

As Tony said, what I personally believe and would advise if asked and what I would force (by law) on someone are entirely different things.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I need to make a few comments on the abortion subject.. some of the things in the past few pages are extremely disturbing.

• The majority of abortions are not carried out because a woman’s life is at risk or she was raped. Please, it is such an insult to the subject if we pretend as if that is true. I grow so tired of seeing that as an emotional argument when the numbers are so low in reality.

• A pregnant woman is not a victim. She is pregnant at the result of an adult action, sometimes accidentally, sometimes unplanned.. but another person did NOT force that on her.
Rape of course is a separate issue, one that in my mind still doesn’t become a reason to end another human life, but I’ll leave rape out of this because - AGAIN- that’s not what “women’s rights” is focusing on.

Once again the original point has been twisted and lost.

Abortion is legal and most people accept that.. myself included.

“Pro Life” to many- means (as I originally said)- protecting as much as we can with the existence of Roe v Wade

• Restricting time frame.
• Restricting methods.
• Providing education on alternatives.
• Not making it an easy and quick fix.
• Requiring parental consent of minors.


ALL of these things are what PP and NARAL and the big “Pro Choice” and “Women’s Rights” are fighting against, what they have been for years. THIS is the number one logistic difference between Pro Life and Pro Choice today.

I can NOT fathom being in support of those. Not because of heaven or hell, but because of the lack of respect for human life.. for the barbaric mindset that could rationalize those things.

Some of you really need to think about what you’re saying.
 

OneofThree

Well-Known Member
I understand. It’s a lot easier when you don’t have to make a choice. You just follow orders, do as you’re told. No struggle or thought required, and you can’t be blamed, right?

It’s a lot easier when you’ll never have to deal with the fallout, either.

I held these positions when I was young and naive. You folks are too old to be naive, and so am I. Glad I wised up.
I think you would do well not to assume what I/we (my wife) have had to deal with. I wasn't about to bring this up to win any online debate, but you seem to need the reality check. After my wife miscarried, we had no intention of having another. According to the OB, she got pregnant because she ovulated twice that month. She was 38, had Lupus, and incredibly high risk. Let's just say it's 9 months we won't soon forget and leave it at that.
 
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