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General political chat

Discussion in 'Politics and Social Issues' started by truecoat, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. Gomer

    Gomer Well-Known Member

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    Sorry everyone, I don't think I conveyed my tone correctly from my phone. Didn't mean to set you all off. Maybe I should have added an LOL in there or something.

    I was simply making a joke about Trump's continuing hilarious spiral into getting caught in his own spin about why he wanted Comey out. I wasn't trying to imply that this in any way showed he was colluding with Russians or there was massive conspiracy or cover-up (outside of the continual lies because they can't keep their stories straight). I don't actually think this story has much bearing on anything either way. Just more of Trump putting his foot in his mouth.

    I also, of course, am not surprised by what he said. Sad that we have a president with the temperament and vocabulary of a 7th grade bully, but in no way surprised.
     
  2. Andrew C

    Andrew C You know what's funny? Premium Member

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    You are giving previous Presidents too much credit...lol
     
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  3. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your last paragraph 100%!

    The rest of it though, I don't think he got caught in any of his own spin on Comey. I think what happened is exactly what they said- statements were made before speaking to Trump. Which is dumb, but that part isn't on him.
     
  4. Gomer

    Gomer Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I am just too cynical. But I don't (And never have regardless of party) taken official statements from politicians at face value. I feel you see more in their actions than their press conferences.

    This makes sense to me (and I don't think is illegal)...
    President was sick of Comey because of Russia, asked Rosenstein to fire him.
    Rosenstein came up with valid reasons, but due to timing we're not bought by the public at large.
    WH realized their political error and scrambled to make it seem more palatable.
    Were eventually caught with their pants down because of all the witnesses that could state the real reasoning.

    Rosenstein likely didn't do anything wrong. He found legitimate reasons to fire Comey.
    Trump didn't do anything illegal, he fired a man he had every right to fire (whether there was any actual obstruction of the investigation will be shown over time, but is mostly irrelevant to the actual firing at this point)

    I clearly have no proof of the above. Its just what makes the most logical sense given the contradictory nature of the official statements and reports we have seen so far.

    I don't think it was illegal. I just think its hilariously inept politics all around.
     
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  5. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

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    Did you read Rosenstein's statement though? Nothing he said collaborates that theory. He would have to be lying for there to be any other explanation.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  6. Gomer

    Gomer Well-Known Member

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    Why would he have to be lying?

    It is known that Trump wanted Comey fired before he requested the DAG write up a reason.

    the DAG has stated he and Sessions also wanted him gone.

    It is never said it was for the same reasons.

    Its possible, that Trumps motives were not those of the AG office. Its possible they were the same. Neither needs to be true. If there was collusion between Trump and Rosenstein to come up with fabricated reasons to get rid of Comey that would obviously be bad. But that is not the only way the facts and reports fit a narrative.
     
  7. Laketravis

    Laketravis Premium Member

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    Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford weren't the nations most eloquent speakers either, but hardly anyone heard and fewer reported their occasional gaffs. And Reagan joked about bombing the Russians when he didn't know his mic was live. GWB was often the butt of many jokes for inventing new words yet escaped the scrutiny of social media before Facebook and Twitter started to gain traction.

    Let's not underestimate how much different times are now versus those of past presidents. Social media and the internet allow "news" to travel in nanoseconds. Trump is on the cusp of his own Truman Show, certainly the next president will be.
     
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  8. Gomer

    Gomer Well-Known Member

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    Granted the times are different but so is he. This is not a man who is prone to go blue occasionally when he thinks no one is watching. Or one of those presidents who slyly slips in some offensive terms to appeal to his cronies.

    Trump takes pride in his bluster in a way no recent president has (I say recent because I am not up on the social habits of early American presidents). He gleefully insults and offends because it achieves a desired result. A reaction. Attention. Publicity. It is calculated. But it is also very childish.
     
  9. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

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    That's true, we could assume that Trump wanted him gone because of Russia. But when the AG office and the president are saying/wanting the same thing, then I believe their reasons are the same.

    We just each have our own theory.
     
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  10. Laketravis

    Laketravis Premium Member

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    Wait - are we talking about Trump or Bill Clinton? :)
     
  11. Laketravis

    Laketravis Premium Member

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    willtravel and Andrew C like this.
  12. Gomer

    Gomer Well-Known Member

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    Sir_Cliff likes this.
  13. Sir_Cliff

    Sir_Cliff Well-Known Member

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    No offence as I have no problem with people who have different views than me, but I think this is the first time I have 100% agreed with one of your posts! Everything is remarkable so far: the leaking, Trump, and his communications team! Out of all three, though, I think I have the most sympathy for his communications team.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  14. SorcererMC

    SorcererMC Well-Known Member

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    The use of the phrase 'without an appropriate purpose' here is deliberate IMO, implicitly referring to the legal definition of obstruction of justice. In order for any comment or action to rise to the level of obstruction, corrupt intent must be shown; 18 U.S.C. § 1515(b), defines “corruptly” as “acting with an improper purpose, personally or by influencing another, including making a false or misleading statement,..."

    Everything I've seen about applying obstruction as a criminal charge or as a basis for impeachment hinges on the definition of 'corruptly'. So, Trump allegedly telling Comey to let the Flynn investigation go, taken within the context of Comey's given testimony, is not in and of itself an impediment to the investigation or obstruction. (Side note: Neither is firing Comey for that matter.....however, if a pattern of comments or behavior develops, then that could be construed as obstruction, AFAIK/non-expert opinion.)

    Anyhow, good post as I think it's important to examine the available primary statements rather than relying on the rampant speculation that has been taking place.

    ETA: Well, Here is a Harvard Law Prof opinion, from a couple of days ago, concludes there could be a strong case for obstruction but emphasizes caution/ that the facts are unknown.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  15. Clamman73

    Clamman73 Well-Known Member

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    So this happened...which I'm not sure what's happening.
    IMG_1306.JPG
     
  16. drizgirl

    drizgirl Well-Known Member

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    Well duh. It's clearly a seance.
     
  17. Laketravis

    Laketravis Premium Member

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    "Call in the spirits, wherever they're at. Rap on a table, it's time to respond... Send us a message from somewhere beyond......."
     
  18. willtravel

    willtravel Well-Known Member

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    How sad this had to happen. how bitter can a party be......

    'F*** Trump' chant led by California Democratic Party Leader: What's next?

    [​IMG]
    By Sam Sorbo Published May 22, 2017
    Fox News
    [​IMG]
    President Donald Trump holds his hand over his heart for the U.S. National Anthem as he attends the Coast Guard Academy commencement ceremonies to address the graduating class in New London, Connecticut, U.S. May 17, 2017. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque - RTX368JG

    Outgoing California Democratic Party Chairman John Burton performed the only action left to an impotent, leftist, cadre head in a lawful society. He shouted. He likely would’ve preferred some kind of violent action, but instead he simply advocated for one.



    Specifically, he invited the listening-impaired translators onto the stage Saturday at the California’s Democratic Party convention in Sacramento to “thank them,” and then, as they were flashing their hands in applause for his service to the party, he put his middle finger in the air and lead a chant, “F*** Donald Trump!”

    Perhaps more remarkable was the eager willingness of the crowd to join in with him, chanting, while House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Obama’s Former Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis looked on, laughing it up in the background.

    Why should this astonish anyone? This is the party recently all-in for a woman who unapologetically called half the country “deplorables.” Those claiming she apologized have it wrong. Hillary Clinton only apologized for the number of deplorables referenced.

    Well, Stalin said that one death could be seen as a tragedy, but a million deaths was simply a statistic. To Democrats, in this case, it only depends on who’s dying.

    This is, in fact, your tax dollars at work.


    Since the government removed the Bible and prayer from our schools, our nation has been educating young people to believe that life happens purely by accident and that evolution dictates that Survival of the Fittest is the supreme law of the land (contradicting the foundational values of our representative republic). Therefore, when Democrats are so easily convinced that some people just don’t have the same value as other people, and that they can be written off as “irredeemable,” which literally means they are worthless, we should hardly be surprised. That’s the same way the Nazis spoke about Jews and gays.

    Democrats view Trump as deplorable, irredeemable, and therefore no insult is too great (Just watch all the most recent “Saturday Night Live” cold-opens), no threat is too bold (Violence Against Trump Supporters the New Normal), no violent imagining too far-fetched (Madonna calls for burning down the White House), and, of course, no commentary too lude or crass for general consumption (see above).

    It is this egregious disdain for the humanity of others that comprises the basis for today’s Democratic party. For this reason, they attempted to eliminate God from the party’s platform in 2012. Reinstating it by unpopular vote (It’s-not-who-votes-that-counts-it’s-who-counts-the-votes Villaraigosa saw to that), they never addressed the impulse behind the move.

    Unfortunately, great damage is already accomplished. Thanks to government schooling, our youth believe that socialism is just like grandpa with candy (witness the popularity of Bernie Sanders), never having been taught the truth: that socialists are responsible for about one hundred million deaths last century. After all, if I have a right to health care, then I’m entitled to take it by force, if necessary. And if I’m angry, survival of the fittest dictates I can loot and set fire. It’s no wonder we are dealing with a bullying epidemic in our schools.

    Young undergrads get up and walk out on Pence’s commencement speech at Notre Dame because they think that protecting their minds from his ideas on freedom of speech is loftier than discourse or free speech. They are caught, now, ensnared in the misguided and dangerous notion that some people – even those occupying the highest office in the land – are truly beneath their dignity, nay, worthy of their unabashed scorn.

    The famous quote from Ronald Reagan,“The trouble with our liberal friends isn't that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn’t true,” has become The trouble with leftists is they don’t respect human life. And when they lose respect for human life, as the Democratic Party has finally done, not only are they anti-American, because our constitution preserves everyone’s rights to life and liberty, but they become downright dangerous.

    The wake-up call is coming. Parents are noticing that the education system we have all relied on for so long is failing worse each time the government promises to fix it (nine times in the past 27 years). My book, “They’re YOUR Kids,” details the decline in our schools and addresses what to do about it.

    First and foremost, we need to be teaching our children that they have value and purpose, and that no life is truly deplorable.

    The emergent issue we must deal with, which Trump laid out so beautifully in his speech Sunday at the Arab Islamic American Summit, is our engagement in the fight against evil. To representatives from more than fifty Muslim nations, Trump alighted specifically on heretofore unspoken persecution of Jews and the slaughter of Christians. What is more evil than the systemic devaluation of human life, such as we see with international terrorism (and, also, from within the Democrat party)?

    Author’s note: There is a pernicious gloom that seeks to spread across the globe, and there is only one defense available to all. My husband Kevin and I created our film, “Let There Be Light,” to push back against the darkness. Everyone on the side of good must do their part. Join us now on the film’s
     
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  19. Clamman73

    Clamman73 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Melania darling, can I get a high five?! Nope, but here's a low five.
     
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  20. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

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    I was so shocked and disappointed over the ND commencement. I would have been furious at my child. I really expected better at that school.

    To the rest of the article- this is sadly the new norm. People who have been screaming about being "against hate" are the only people that I see projecting hate.

    Hopefully it changes soon.
     
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