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General political chat

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
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Have you all not seen the “protests” and “counter protests” and “antifa” the past few years?

Is anyone seriously questioning that being “right” these days isn’t labeled as “Nazi” from a vocal portion of the “Left”? Really?
That is not remotely what I said.
 

Gitson Shiggles

There was me, that is Mickey, and my three droogs
True, but just like communism isn't a de facto end of unbridled socialism, Fascism is the same in regards to right leaning philosphy. There's a component of control and manipulation for personal gain and oppressive power added into both that is not left or right.

Pure leftism or rightism (I don't think that's actually a word) in their purest form are not naturally oppressive. But are impractical and easily corruptible to become so. But their corrupted forms are not true right or left. They are unique and disgusting in very similar ways.
Arguing strictly on a right-left political paradigm can be confusing when discussing fascism and Marxism. It would be more appropriate to discuss on an anarchist-totalitarian paradigm. I can’t imagine more than an insignificant number of Americans vouching for a dictator.
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
Nazism is considered right wing because it's fascist. Per Merriam Webster, fascism a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorical leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Nazis used the Aryan race and identity to push and state they were better and above others while being headed by an all powerful leader.

RIghtwing and leftwing can have authoritarian governments. The biggest difference however between communism and fascism is in perfect theory and not how its actually applied in a true communist society every one no matter what is considered equal whereas fascism thrives on class.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
I disagree, primarily because radical left- or right-wing ideologies move toward totalitarianism of one form or another whether corruption is present or not. There is no greater form of oppression.
But the philosophies in their ideal or pure state is not what is oppressive. It is the way they are implemented that become oppressive. That's why I find them impractical. At a large scale, there is no way to institute either without becoming oppressive. But at a smaller scale, (let say a small remote community or island where all citizens buy into the philosophy) they are possible.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
It seems the lying orange doesn't fall from the lying orange tree.

Eric Trump goes head to head with a tv host about Eric's boast that, “We’ve got the fastest-growing economy in the history of our country,”. And guess what...he was wrong.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/eric-trump-fox-news-economy-lies-fact-checked_us_5b9b5868e4b013b0977954f5
Big deal. Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, and Hillary Clinton all lied this past week in relation to a SC hearing. And Trump ran his mouth about PR. And you're worried about Eric Trump boasting about the economy? People lie, boast, use hyperbole.

Be thankful we are in a strong economy rather than a recession. Goodness...
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
I largely agree with this. I’m sorry if my earlier posts were unclear: I did not mean to imply that either extreme is a teleological outcome of normal left- or right-leaning thought. Both are deplorable perversions.
Yeah, I don't disagree with anything you are saying from an academic standpoint. On the spectrum scale, communism has more in common with the left and fascism the right. But people (especially on the internet) are defensive and will react as if the two are being conflated, even when they are not. So, from a practical standpoint, it's usually counterproductive to introduce those extremes as part of the natural political spectrum as they are such clear aberrations. But that's just my opinion.
 

aw14

Well-Known Member
Because Naziism bears as much resemblance to modern American right politics as Communism does to the left. Nazis had components of today's far-right philosophy but it was a bastardization of those things into an oppressive system of government.

I think its overly reductive to compare the two. Where I have trouble with Mr. Buscuit is in the hypocrisy of taking the worst case scenario of left leaning politics as his examples of why it is dangerous and un-American, while only looking at the purest form of right wing philosophy as some bastion of personal liberty. We need to be consistent. If we look at leftism and modern American socialism as benign in comparison to oppressive Communism, I think its only fair to do the same when it comes to modern nationalism in comparison to fascism.
Well said ad very fair....want to like this multiple times.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
You don’t get to twist my words and then leave it at agreeing to disagree. I have been vocally opposed to Nazi comparisons on many, many occasions in this thread, so don’t pretend I was saying something I wasn’t.
I’m not twisting. You asked “why would it be insulting..” ...”it doesn’t represent mainstream conservatism..”

Yet, people are pretending it does almost daily. Not sure why you would need to ask that question.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
On an important note, Is anyone else bothered by what this investigation has uncovered so far?

I am. Greatly. Can you imagine if all businesspeople/politicians were under this kind of investigative scrutiny? Do you think we would see a large portion with skeletons in their closet?

It’s growing more concerning by the minute, imo.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I’m not twisting. You asked “why would it be insulting..” ...”it doesn’t represent mainstream conservatism..”

Yet, people are pretending it does almost daily. Not sure why you would need to ask that question.
Accepting that Nazism was/is a far-right ideology is not the same as labelling all right-wing politics Nazi. That others may engage in such conflation has no bearing on what I said.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
On an important note, Is anyone else bothered by what this investigation has uncovered so far?

I am. Greatly. Can you imagine if all businesspeople/politicians were under this kind of investigative scrutiny? Do you think we would see a large portion with skeletons in their closet?

It’s growing more concerning by the minute, imo.
Maybe a system that allows for so many skeletons is one that should be exposed. And if people with so many skeletons can be so integrally involved in our political system, its time for that to be exposed as well.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Not to muddy the waters. but there are ACTUAL nazi's who are identifying as "the right". Some of those Antifa counterprotests were actually against Nazis. It's dangerous to forget that these people exist and have chosen to latch on to Trump's populism and nationalism as a way to further their agenda.

And before you flip out on me, I am not saying Trump (or republicans for that matter) is a Nazi. But perhaps if he did more to distance them and not make them fell welcome under his "big tent" there would be less of those accusations. The same holds true for the left and any of the numerous examples you'll likely try to throw at me about violent or hateful people not being disowned by the Democrats. It seems these days we like to treat the opposition as the sum of their worst possible components as opposed to assuming those people to be an outlier. And our leaders are complicit in that by not distancing themselves from these people for fear of losing their support.
I agree. Even if the “actual Nazis” were a very small number in reality. I do see one side pandering more to extremism though, but we’ll probably disagree on who that is.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Maybe a system that allows for so many skeletons is one that should be exposed. And if people with so many skeletons can be so integrally involved in our political system, its time for that to be exposed as well.
So will this become a tax payer supported norm? Against every administration?
 

Gitson Shiggles

There was me, that is Mickey, and my three droogs
But the philosophies in their ideal or pure state is not what is oppressive. It is the way they are implemented that become oppressive. That's why I find them impractical. At a large scale, there is no way to institute either without becoming oppressive. But at a smaller scale, (let say a small remote community or island where all citizens buy into the philosophy) they are possible.
I totally agree with the last part of your comment. Communes come closer to pure communism than any Communist state that has existed, but even they have rules. Those who do not pull their own weight are asked to leave.
 
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