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Jim S

Well-Known Member
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It doesn’t matter what he was indicted for it matters what info he’s giving up in his plea deal.

Plus I wasn’t talking about him I was talking about all those pesky Russians people conveniently like to forget about who were indicted fIf or election meddling.

That alone makes the investigation a worthy endeavor regardless of what else is found.
Most likely Manafort had nothing to give him about the myth of Trump Russian collusion. Besides Gates would have given that information to Mueller a long time ago.
The thing Mueller should be worried about is that Weissmann his head hunter was being fed information from Ohr via Steele. That is corrupt.
Now we are finding out LIsa Page interned for Bill Clinton. How did she get picked by Mueller before she got fired for all of those text messages.
The new text released this week show a media leak strategy (Strzok and Page) regarding FISA warrants on Carter Page. That is a criminal offense to leak Fisa info.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
The investigation is into Russian meddling into the election, who was responsible, and how it occurred. I don't see how and end result exonerating the president and identifying the Russians who carried it out would be a waste of time. Regardless of the outcome, this investigation was a worthy process to expose an attack on our country and our democracy.
So you must know something that only you know. Want to share with the rest of the class. Speculation and conspiracy theories are not proof and neither is wishful thinking.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
So you must know something that only you know. Want to share with the rest of the class. Speculation and conspiracy theories are not proof and neither is wishful thinking.
You crack me up. I've spent all day saying we need know nothing and we need to wait to hear the results of Mueller's investigations. If you actually read the entire conversation, I was responding to the poster saying IF the investigation found nothing on Trump's campaign it would have been a waste.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
You crack me up. I've spent all day saying we need know nothing and we need to wait to hear the results of Mueller's investigations. If you actually read the entire conversation, I was responding to the poster saying IF the investigation found nothing on Trump's campaign it would have been a waste.
Well what have they found so far?
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
The investigation is into Russian meddling into the election, who was responsible, and how it occurred. I don't see how and end result exonerating the president and identifying the Russians who carried it out would be a waste of time. Regardless of the outcome, this investigation was a worthy process to expose an attack on our country and our democracy.
It has been a waste of time, a witch hunt, and corrupt from day one. Mueller should shut it down.
Lot of people are going to be shocked when the corruption and colllusion in our process was coming from the FBI and DOJ. Just because the press is ignoring it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Strassel, Hemingway, Carter, Soloman, Bongino, Jarrett, and a few others have been doing some real investigative journalism. Tic Toc.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
We don't know. That's the whole point.
You want Mueller to plow ahead but don't want to see the FISA applications I take it. Have you seen the text between Page and Strzok.? How do you explain all of those firings, resignations, etc in the FBI.
How do you explain Bruce Ohr and Nellie Ohr?
Do you believe the Steele dossier that started this entire investigation of Trump is a legit document? Comey, McCabe, and others didn't think it was.
Did Comey leak for the purpose of getting a special prosecutor assigned? Is that legal and ethical?
Just a few of my questions. In otherwords people are in favor of going all in on Trump but just ingore the other things that are bothering a lot of people.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
We don't know. That's the whole point.
What started this investigation? First it was Papdopoulous-that story crumbled and fell apart and then it became Carter Page-that story the same.
Can you tell me what was the basis for starting this investigation?
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
You want Mueller to plow ahead but don't want to see the FISA applications I take it. Have you seen the text between Page and Strzok.? How do you explain all of those firings, resignations, etc in the FBI.
How do you explain Bruce Ohr and Nellie Ohr?
Do you believe the Steele dossier that started this entire investigation of Trump is a legit document? Comey, McCabe, and others didn't think it was.
Did Comey leak for the purpose of getting a special prosecutor assigned? Is that legal and ethical?
Just a few of my questions. In otherwords people are in favor of going all in on Trump but just ingore the other things that are bothering a lot of people.
I don't presume to tell Mueller what he should or shouldn't investigate. Like I said multiple times. I'm letting the investigation run its course to see what he finds. If Mueller thinks all that stuff you mentioned above warrants real investigation than he should go for it. I haven't heard a compelling argument why it should yet. Although maybe it would be easier to accept if it wasn't coming out of the foaming mouths of people like Hannity and Limbaugh and their puppets like Bongino.

Neither you, nor I, have enough information to be in a position to know what warrants investigation. No matter how many talk show hosts tell us otherwise. But unlike some, I'm open to any avenue the investigation take, regardless of what it uncovers, or who ends up being culpable.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
I don't presume to tell Mueller what he should or shouldn't investigate. Like I said multiple times. I'm letting the investigation run its course to see what he finds. If Mueller thinks all that stuff you mentioned above warrants real investigation than he should go for it. I haven't heard a compelling argument why it should yet. Although maybe it would be easier to accept if it wasn't coming out of the foaming mouths of people like Hannity and Limbaugh and their puppets like Bongino.

Neither you, nor I, have enough information to be in a position to know what warrants investigation. No matter how many talk show hosts tell us otherwise. But unlike some, I'm open to any avenue the investigation take, regardless of what it uncovers, or who ends up being culpable.
I never indicated I think Mueller should be investigating those things, Mueller should close up shop.
So any other possible corruption you attribute to people foaming at the mouth types and puppets. Only Mueller is legit.

I have ask you a number of legit questions and you keep finding a way to dodge and ignore them. You only want to investigate Trump.

I will make this simple for you- in your opinion what started this investigation of the so called Trump Russian collusion?
 
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Jim S

Well-Known Member
The Russians meddling in our election.
Russian meddling? That charge could have been made thru out our history and it always occurs. If the Russians meddled maybe we should be investigating Obama and his administration. They were in charge not Trump.

If true why do we need a special council for that? What are our intelligent agencies doing?
Looks more and more like it is an attempt to frame and destroy a president.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
I never indicated I think Mueller should be investigating those things, Mueller should close up shop.
Again, you have no idea what he has found or not found. Its irresponsible to call for the halt of a criminal investigation in which you have too few of the details to know the merits. No matter how many conspiracies you peddle.

So any other possible corruption you attribute to people foaming at the mouth types and puppets. Only Mueller is legit.
No just the talk radio guys who have built an industry out making people like you so mad they feel compelled to come back and listen every day and then go onto internet forums and angrily attack everyone who disagrees with you. They're manipulative charlatans to feed of anger and divisiveness as a way to make money.

We were having a remarkably civil discussion on this and other topics all day, and then you came in on the offensive, making assumptions, attacking. Posts like yours are why I keep stepping away from this place. You have no interest in a discussion, you just want to attack libs.

I have you a number of legit questions and you keep finding a way to dodge and ignore them. You only want to investigate Trump.
You mean the ones about Hannity's conspiracy theories? I'm no expert in that, so I have no responses to your questions. But nothing I've heard about FBI agents having political beliefs or people buying irrelevant dossiers has made me believe there was no Russian meddling. And until I am convinced of that, i won't ever say the Mueller probe was unwarranted.

I will make this simple for you- in your opinion what started this investigation of the so called Trump Russian collusion?
And again, your assumptions that the Steele dossier were the sole reason for this investigation are betraying your bias. the investigation was due to Russian meddling and the need to find out how it was done, by who, and in what way. So we can prevent it in the future and hold anyone who assisted in that meddling accountable. What I would assume would a a pretty apolitical objective. But I guess nothing is apolitical these days. the trump stuff is all secondary. if he colluded, he should pay. If he didn't, its pretty irrelevant to me as long as those who did help are found.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
Again, you have no idea what he has found or not found. Its irresponsible to call for the halt of a criminal investigation in which you have too few of the details to know the merits. No matter how many conspiracies you peddle.


No just the talk radio guys who have built an industry out making people like you so mad they feel compelled to come back and listen every day and then go onto internet forums and angrily attack everyone who disagrees with you. They're manipulative charlatans to feed of anger and divisiveness as a way to make money.

We were having a remarkably civil discussion on this and other topics all day, and then you came in on the offensive, making assumptions, attacking. Posts like yours are why I keep stepping away from this place. You have no interest in a discussion, you just want to attack libs.


You mean the ones about Hannity's conspiracy theories? I'm no expert in that, so I have no responses to your questions. But nothing I've heard about FBI agents having political beliefs or people buying irrelevant dossiers has made me believe there was no Russian meddling. And until I am convinced of that, i won't ever say the Mueller probe was unwarranted.


And again, your assumptions that the Steele dossier were the sole reason for this investigation are betraying your bias. the investigation was due to Russian meddling and the need to find out how it was done, by who, and in what way. So we can prevent it in the future and hold anyone who assisted in that meddling accountable. What I would assume would a a pretty apolitical objective. But I guess nothing is apolitical these days. the trump stuff is all secondary. if he colluded, he should pay. If he didn't, its pretty irrelevant to me as long as those who did help are found.
It seems you are the one that doesn't want a dialogue. . Start trashing talk show host and the old dodge of conspiracy theories.

Accuse me of bias on the Steele dossier and yet the only bias answer you can give is Russian meddling-whatever that means.
I think this investigation is hurting the nation and after over two years nothing.
It is now time to investigate the investigators with the same vigor as Trump has been investigated. Appoint a special prosecutor.

You have yet to address why so many corrupt people at the FBI have been fired, are under Grand Jury investigation, been reassigned, or suddenly resigned. Still want to take a shot at the Ohr's or is that just more conspiracy theories.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
What we do know at this point is that there is more.direct evidence of criminal offense by members of the Special Investigators than by Trump.
I'll say this one last time. It's Friday and I don't feel liked getting sucked into circular debates all weekend. I'm gonna go help my son play the new Spider-man game (meaning I want to play it because its awesome)

1. the investigation is not solely about Trump. Politicians and talk show hosts on both side want to push that narrative because it gets people riled up. Trump may or may not be irrelevant. We dont' know because we don't know the full facts of the investigation.
2. Any "at this point" narrative is also irrelevant. because no one here actually knows what's been discovered. All we do know is that there have been a number of indictments of Russians who were interfering with our election. And a number of plea deals that have not played out yet.

Short of turning Mueller's office into a reality show, we have no way of knowing what he has or has not found. Any claims to the contrary are just political posturing. We can either wait and see, or we can shout at the sky about what we THINK is happening on the inside. I prefer to wait and see. Its more effective and far less stressful than arguing about things we have no clue about.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
If true why do we need a special council for that? What are our intelligent agencies doing?
This. Exactly this. It’s what I said earlier.
Why do we suddenly think a special council is the only way to investigate Russia meddling?

Do we not have senate committees? Intelligence agencies?

What do people think our government does every other (less politically charged) time?
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Short of turning Mueller's office into a reality show, we have no way of knowing what he has or has not found.
...but we know what he has found on the people already charged- which is nothing related to the purpose of the investigation.
Mueller can’t hold back public info on what the specific charges are. Not even he has that power.
 
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