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From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

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flynnibus

Premium Member
And just because the backseat non-lawyers in this thread like to claim their opinions as legal fact:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/1...nightmare-say-experts.html#.V2Rywdh-ChE.email

And the guest answers if there was adequate protection his answer was "I SUGGEST not" - because he knows its not a point of fact, but one of debate.

And the other cited lawyers, personal injury lawyers saying disney COULD be liable.. and the only guy making a decisive claim is a personal injury lawyer Gerson who has an entire business founded upon litigating against companies like Disney. Perfectly objective opinion there don't you think ? :)
 

KeeKee

Well-Known Member
And 800 milliion+ people have visited Walt Disney World and it has never happened before this event. That doesn't diminish this tragedy but lets get at least a little but of perspective here.
If by "never happened before" you mean a death, then that is correct. However there have been instances of attacks reported. Wapo did an article last week on one in 1986 or 1983 or something like that with a picture of a kid in a hospital bed surrounded by Disney characters.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
To everyone that is heaping the blame solely at Disney's feet for what happened, let me ask you this: before you found out about this tragedy, did you ever give a second thought that something like this might happen, or that Disney should do more to prevent a gator attack from happening? No, and if you said yes, you are either a liar or in the extreme minority. Now that it has happened, Disney is the big, evil, negligent corporation who "should have done something"? It doesn't matter what Disney has done or will do for any risk on property, you people will not be satisfied.
 

steviej

Well-Known Member
For argument's sake let's say the dad was on his cell phone. What difference does that make?

Why have most states banned talking on your cell phone while driving? Because it takes at least 1 second off your instinct. That's the difference it makes. Lets just say he was indeed on his cell phone. If he wasn't, then he could've been in the water 1 second earlier and that could've made all the difference in the world.

If they had a glass of wine at dinner does that make them guilty of something?

1 glass of wine or a beer? no. But if they had 5 drinks each, then it's a whole new ballgame here.

These people have suffered so much already and as a parent I can tell you they likely will never stop blaming themselves for what happened. They don't need others trying to invent ways to place more blame on them.

I have no doubt. But we don't have the full story, so a lot of people (myself included) are just trying to fill in the gaps
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I know, but it was at one time owned by it

Yes, back in the days of the Disney Inn and Golf resort... over 20 years ago.

Why else would the Shades of green have signs up other than to warn of gators?

Irrelevant - the point is actions by MWR are not the same as actions by Disney so don't use SoG as an example of what Disney is doing in one location vs another.
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
So Disney shouldn't clear the swimming pools when ground strikes are nearby?

Of course they should, and they do. I specifically didn't address that because it's a known hazard in lightning storms (completely independent of Florida) and didn't feel it was necessary to repeat. It fits right along with the category of 'don't stand under a tree' in a lightning storm. It's standard recommended practice in any part the country that is prone to lightning storms.

The lightning rods on buildings are something that is a little more unique to Florida and many might not have seen even if they do see lightning where the live simply because we get so much of it here.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Yes. Disney knows there are alligators on their property. And there have been instances where these animals have attempted to harm guests. Alligators in general are known to harm or kill people. So the answer is yes. "Forseeability" and "likelihood" are not interchangeable when it comes to liability. And just because the backseat non-lawyers in this thread like to claim their opinions as legal fact:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/1...nightmare-say-experts.html#.V2Rywdh-ChE.email

This is where you are wrong. It's what I wish most on this thread would realize.
Alligators are NOT "in general known to harm and kill people". Not at all. "In General" they are known to stay away from people.

This is a fact. Please, feel free to do your own research on the subject.
 

betty rose

Well-Known Member
And 800 milliion+ people have visited Walt Disney World and it has never happened before this event. That doesn't diminish this tragedy but lets get at least a little bit of perspective here.
Another alligator attack has taken place in Disney World. Was the person killed, no. But an attack has happened before.
 
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donsullivan

Premium Member
Instead of everyone throwing their opinions about what alligators do and do not do, how about going to a source that is actually factual and not opinion based. Probably the most authoritative source on alligators is the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. They have all of the details on the regulations for alligator management, a whole pile of FAQ's about the species. It has topics like "Why does FWC not relocation nuisance alligators in Florida?".

I strongly encourage all of the armchair wildlife experts to invest some time reading and learning the facts:

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/faqs/
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
This is where you are wrong. It's what I wish most on this thread would realize.
Alligators are NOT "in general known to harm and kill people". Not at all. "In General" they are known to stay away from people.

My choice of phrasing unintentionally implied that is a common occurrence. However, alligators HAVE attacked and harmed people in the past, which makes them a known danger.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I have no doubt. But we don't have the full story, so a lot of people (myself included) are just trying to fill in the gaps
What part of the story is missing.? If they said the kid was unsupervised by the water's edge then it would be logical to try to figure out where the parents were or what they were doing. Unless I missed something, every news report I've seen has stated that the father was with his son when the attack happened.
 

betty rose

Well-Known Member
To everyone that is heaping the blame solely at Disney's feet for what happened, let me ask you this: before you found out about this tragedy, did you ever give a second thought that something like this might happen, or that Disney should do more to prevent a gator attack from happening? No, and if you said yes, you are either a liar or in the extreme minority. Now that it has happened, Disney is the big, evil, negligent corporation who "should have done something"? It doesn't matter what Disney has done or will do for any risk on property, you people will not be satisfied.
This argument has nothing to do with Disney being a corporation. I thought we were talking about an attack on an innocent baby. I'm out with this thread.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Instead of everyone throwing their opinions about what alligators do and do not do, how about going to a source that is actually factual and not opinion based. Probably the most authoritative source on alligators is the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. They have all of the details on the regulations for alligator management, a whole pile of FAQ's about the species. It has topics like "Why does FWC not relocation nuisance alligators in Florida?".

I strongly encourage all of the armchair wildlife experts to invest some time reading and learning the facts:

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/faqs/
I actually did a copy and paste and posted text from this yesterday. This is a good opportunity for us all to learn more. Learning never hurts. :)
 

KeeKee

Well-Known Member
Instead of everyone throwing their opinions about what alligators do and do not do, how about going to a source that is actually factual and not opinion based. Probably the most authoritative source on alligators is the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. They have all of the details on the regulations for alligator management, a whole pile of FAQ's about the species. It has topics like "Why does FWC not relocation nuisance alligators in Florida?".

I strongly encourage all of the armchair wildlife experts to invest some time reading and learning the facts:

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/faqs/
Oh, there you go again bringing facts into this and spoiling all the fun! :)
 

steviej

Well-Known Member
What part of the story is missing.? Unless I missed something, every news report I've seen has stated that the father was with his son when the attack happened.

I've seen that the kid had his feet barely all the way in the water and was next to his father, and I've also seen that the kid was about a foot in with both parents watching from the beach. As well as hearing every combination in between.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I've seen that the kid had his feet barely all the way in the water and was next to his father, and I've also seen that the kid was about a foot in with both parents watching from the beach. As well as hearing every combination in between.
Who cares? Really. A foot in or on the shoreline. It doesn't matter. It probably would have happened either way.
 

EngineJoe

Well-Known Member
This is where you are wrong. It's what I wish most on this thread would realize.
Alligators are NOT "in general known to harm and kill people". Not at all. "In General" they are known to stay away from people.

This is a fact. Please, feel free to do your own research on the subject.

Humans are a lot more dangerous than gators. I'd say the chance of dying from terrorist attack or mass murderer is a much greater danger at Disney than being eaten by an alligator.

I would rather put as many resources as possible into security to prevent such human attacks than diverting those resources to prevent what was a freak accident. Yeah put up signs fine, but some of the ideas like sea wall or boardwalk around the whole lake have little effectiveness and are just diverting funds from keeping disney safe for our kids from the terrorist and crazed gun killers.

Beef up security at Disney springs because the last time I went there there was no metal detectors or walls to prevent someone from just walking in with an Arsenal of weapons.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
This argument has nothing to do with Disney being a corporation. I thought we were talking about an attack on an innocent baby. I'm out with this thread.
My point all along is that people on here are trying to blame Disney, trying to blame the parents, trying to pin this tragedy on someone. Why? Let's just move forward, and make sure that this doesn't happen again.
 
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