Fresh FLE News for March 2010

[jt04]

I would disagree with that, using Disneyland as an easy American point of reference three time zones away.

An E Ticket in Adventureland and some more comprehensive theming in Tomorrowland will help (Disneyland's Tomorrowland needs similar help), but that would get Magic Kingdom to about 80% to Disneyland's 100%.

To get Magic Kingdom to 100%, you'd still need to address Magic Kingdom's nearly attraction-less flood control channel known as the Rivers of America.

Getting the Davy Crockett Canoes and Sailing Ship Columbia would be a good start, if not getting the Keelboats back. Whatever you do, get some life and purpose in that river like Disneyland has.

Once the Rivers of America get some of their pep back at Magic Kingdom, you'd need to address the lack of dark rides in Fantasyland. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin, Alice in Wonderland, Pinnochio's Daring Journey, and Mr. Toad's Wild Ride are lacking from the Magic Kingdom. Get some ride vehicles moving in that land. StorybookLand Canal Boats and Casey Jr. Circus Train would be another option for action and movement.

Using Disneyland as the reference again, add an E Ticket to Adventureland (Indiana Jones?) and you are still missing three other E Tickets in the Matterhorn Bobsled, Star Tours and Submarine Voyage.

Kicking out the cash registers and stuffed animals in Magic Kingdom's Main Street Cinema, Fire Station and Penny Arcade would also help. Magic Kingdom's management could visit Disneyland to discover how to theme those facilities to... wait for it... a Cinema, a Fire Station, and a Penny Arcade. An additonal nighttime spectacular as big as Disneyland's Fantasmic! is also a requirement.

Offerings like Fantasmic! and Star Tours exist in other WDW properties, but that doesn't help the capacity and entertainment merit of Magic Kingdom. And that's the point, right?

.

Comparing DL and the MK is a bit tough. It will never be necessary to jam as much into the MK as they are forced to at the original park. That wasn't my point. When TL opened at WDW it only has 2 attractions. It felt incomplete because it was. Both TL and FL have always felt half done in many respects. The FLE will fix that for FL. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the number of attractions and everything to do with a sense of completeness. Look no further then CMM at DAK for a glaring example of what TL was when it first opened at the MK. Incomplete which creates an off-putting disorientation. A land should feel complete even if it is short of attractions. World Showcase feels complete even though it could use more countries/attractions.

 

[jt04]

Cool. :wave:

Yeah, the Magic Kingdom was meant to be Disneyland refined and perfected. And I think it was, for a good amount of years. But while Disneyland has grown and evolved as it should, I would say that you can't describe the Magic Kingdom as any more than stagnant, and has arguably regressed. Once New Tomorrowland came and went in the mid-90s, the park just hit a wall. What's really awful is that while each other Disneyland is a very regional park, everyone from around the planet comes to see Walt Disney World and the Magic Kingdom, and it's that very popularity that management uses to justify that the MK is good enough and not pushing it to truly be the best.

And, yeah, the initial excitement of the Fantasyland announcement is wearing off for me, too. They should be able to pull off more than this after twenty years. Little Mermaid will be wonderful, I'm sure, but it's sad to think that we wouldn't be getting it, or maybe even anything at all, if it wasn't being cloned from Disneyland. As for Pixie Hollow, I really hope that doesn't happen, unless the franchise somehow strangely achieves a timeless classic status over the next couple years.

Last I checked the DVD's are doing quite well. Now if the new Disney studios folks know what they are doing they will consider creating a fully realized 3D motion picture on the franchise using the same quality as Alice or Avatar. A mysterious miniature world based on timeless European folklore. These stories never go out of style they just need to be told to the newest generation utilizing the latest and greatest technology. Which, by the way, has now reached the point where these stories can really be rendered properly. Probably for the first time. It's a gold mine.

 

[_Scar]

Although I realize Disneyland is a couple of levels beyond the Magic Kingdom- not before the expansion though- I can't help but say that it isn't the amount of attractions that makes a park better.

I wish I'd see some more refurbs and sprucing, like IoA is doing, before FLE opens in 2012 and the 40th in 2011.

 

[jt04]

It won't, a fact becoming very apparent, and it's giving planners cold feet regarding Phase 2. This is partly why absolutely no solid answers are being given.

Or they have plugged the leaks.:lol:


Is WDI at WDW involved with this project or is it being entirely run out of Glendale? Just wondering.

 

[Figment632]

This gets more boring with each official snippet. Desperation is starting to filter through. It is good news for the park, but should be seen as a minor expansion for one small dermographic which has been needed for a decade or more and accompanied by real news of real family attractions being added. Mermaid is great. It should be the first of another 2 or 3 E tickets.

That would be news worthy.

Agreed this expansion gets worse and aorse by the minute :brick:

Kinda what I've been saying.
Keep Mermaid. Keep the BatB restaurant complex.
Maybe one central princess M&G.
Dump everything else.

Put the rest of the money into an attraction that will drive attendance, profit, and the profile of the park. Like maybe Indy in Adventureland.
That's what MK needs. A major, signature E ticket.

Agreed in full but I would still want the new Dumbo :shrug:

 

[jt04]

Agreed this expansion gets worse and aorse by the minute :brick:



Agreed in full but I would still want the new Dumbo :shrug:

No, actually it keeps getting better. Sorry but not drinking the kool-aid. But I aim to find out who is trying to serve it up.

 

[Figment632]

No, actually it keeps getting better. Sorry but not drinking the kool-aid. But I aim to find out who is trying to serve it up.

Hmm constant reports that it is being scaled back it by the sound of it Disney dosen't even know what is going on.

UNiversal has a new game changing ride but Don't worry CIndy's makeup will be game changing as well.

 

[jt04]

Hmm constant reports that it is being scaled back it by the sound of it Disney dosen't even know what is going on.

UNiversal has a new game changing ride but Don't worry CIndy's makeup will be game changing as well.

The rumored scaling back is just rumors. Propagated by the usual suspects around here.

Second, this is only one aspect of Disney's response. Rather than over-reacting, as they have foolishly done in the past, Disney is in "wait and see" mode. I think that is wise because.....

.....third, Disney will reap overflow from TWWoHP without spending a dime this summer. Then they will know how and when they need to respond.

The mouse is getting wiser in his senior years.

 

[Figment632]

The rumored scaling back is just rumors. Propagated by the usual suspects around here.

Second, this is only one aspect of Disney's response. Rather than over-reacting, as they have foolishly done in the past, Disney is in "wait and see" mode. I think that is wise because.....

.....third, Disney will reap overflow from TWWoHP without spending a dime this summer. Then they will know how and when they need to respond.

The mouse is getting wiser in his senior years.

And Cheaper. See SM refurb and get back to me. The fact that they haven't built and E-ticket in MK since Splash is a joke and the fact that they are replacing 20K one of the biggest and most expansive e tickets of all time with a Dticket omnimover and a bunch of Princess meet and greets is also a joke.

 

[jt04]

And Cheaper. See SM refurb and get back to me. The fact that they haven't built and E-ticket in MK since Splash is a joke and the fact that they are replacing 20K one of the biggest and most expansive e tickets of all time with a Dticket omnimover and a bunch of Princess meet and greets is also a joke.

Yes, this point has been made, tirelessly so.

But the key is that SM was approved by a management system that no longer exists. So obsessing on the way things were done in the past seems a waste of time IMO. I'd rather look to the future, where the FLE represents only the first chapter.

You know almost everyone complaining about the FLE also said Idol would fail quickly and TSMM was just a lazy application of "screen technology".

Yep, almost everyone said that. I didn't because I don't allow my common sense to be overcome by some personal agenda or vendetta.

The FLE will be bigger, better and more successful than AIE and TSMM added together and then some. It will be bigger than Everest and have as big an immediate impact as DAK did when it opened.

 

[Figment632]

Yes, this point has been made, tirelessly so.

But the key is that SM was approved by a management system that no longer exists. So obsessing on the way things were done in the past seems a waste of time IMO. I'd rather look to the future, where the FLE represents only the first chapter.

You know almost everyone complaining about the FLE also said Idol would fail quickly and TSMM was just a lazy application of "screen technology".

Yep, almost everyone said that. I didn't because I don't allow my common sense to be overcome by some personal agenda or vendetta.

The FLE will be bigger, better and more successful than AIE and TSMM added together and then some. It will be bigger than Everest and have as big an immediate impact as DAK did when it opened.

If you have a 5 year old girl otherwise besides looking nice doesn't offer much. And AI has not really been a success JT.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. :wave: I've been reading your posts long enough to know you don't mean the MK should have DL's leftovers, but I was typing fast and didn't have time to give you a huge response.

I meant that the sentence you typed is the same thing that DL-centric freaks use to justify DL quality and MK leftovers, and that sort of thing is online fanboy drivel.

I also fully agree with the part I highlighted in red. Sorry folks, but even though E.P.C.O.T. was his baby, Walt planned for all of WDW to be better than DL, including the MK. And since WDW is the cash cow, I do think the MK should be the best.

Thank you for saying that, and thank goodness you are not on Micechat.

I agree in full. Though Disneyland will ALWAYS be the original, the most Historic, the "One Walt Walked In", Walt Disney World was the one that was planned out with regards to space, with regards to hiolding something much bigger than Disneyland. It's become that, IMHO. It just needs to be treted as such.


I don't understand how it's NOT treated like that. TDO baffles me.

....It's a good thing we have our 4 parks.

It won't, a fact becoming very apparent, and it's giving planners cold feet regarding Phase 2. This is partly why absolutely no solid answers are being given.

Hopefully they will want to plus, rather than scrap.


HP's impact is getting more and more interesting.

Although I realize Disneyland is a couple of levels beyond the Magic Kingdom- not before the expansion though- I can't help but say that it isn't the amount of attractions that makes a park better.

I wish I'd see some more refurbs and sprucing, like IoA is doing, before FLE opens in 2012 and the 40th in 2011.

You are right. It's not. It's about quality upkeep, entertainment, and new and unique offerings.


Something that Disneyland appears to do exceptionally well. We are getting there.

 

[Lee]

You know almost everyone complaining about the FLE also said Idol would fail quickly...

It obviously hasn't failed "quickly", but it certainly hasn't met expectations.
Enough so that a theme change is already being talked about.

It will be bigger than Everest and have as big an immediate impact as DAK did when it opened.

Now that's just crazy talk.:ROFLOL:
Everest had a massive impact on DAK, enough so that they are tremendously fearful of closing it for any length of time to fix it's technical issues. No attraction since ToT has had such a major impact on a park.

The FLE will not cause a significant bump in either profit or turnstile clicks for MK. They are "preaching to the choir", and providing new things to do for guests that would already be in that park. All that will happen is the FL crowds will be more spread out.
Granted, they may get a few more bodies in the park to ride LM and eat at BatB....but that's it.

As I have said before, if they want new guests in the park, if they want The Smith family from Des Moines to decide they really need to get back down to the MK, they need a new signature E. Like ToT, like Everest, like Splash, and yes, like Forbidden Journey. That will make news, that will generate vacation bookings, that will get people talking about the park.
FLE will not.

 

[Figment632]

It obviously hasn't failed "quickly", but it certainly hasn't met expectations.
Enough so that a theme change is already being talked about.


Now that's just crazy talk.:ROFLOL:
Everest had a massive impact on DAK, enough so that they are tremendously fearful of closing it for any length of time to fix it's technical issues. No attraction since ToT has had such a major impact on a park.

The FLE will not cause a significant bump in either profit or turnstile clicks for MK. They are "preaching to the choir", and providing new things to do for guests that would already be in that park. All that will happen is the FL crowds will be more spread out.
Granted, they may get a few more bodies in the park to ride LM and eat at BatB....but that's it.

As I have said before, if they want new guests in the park, if they want The Smith family from Des Moines to decide they really need to get back down to the MK, they need a new signature E. Like ToT, like Everest, like Splash, and yes, like Forbidden Journey. That will make news, that will generate vacation bookings, that will get people talking about the park.
FLE will not.

Exactly while I find FLE to be dissapointing it is still a welcom e addition that will help with guest flow but adding to capacity will reall be the only affect. 98% of people will not book a trip bacause of FLE while it is a nice bonus it is not going to bring people into the park.

 

[CaptainMichael]

I wish I'd see some more refurbs and sprucing, like IoA is doing, before FLE opens in 2012 and the 40th in 2011.

In all fairness to management, they are and have been doing this for a while now. This is one thing that we can't complain about. These things just take time because they were neglected for so long.

Yes, this point has been made, tirelessly so.

But the key is that SM was approved by a management system that no longer exists. So obsessing on the way things were done in the past seems a waste of time IMO. I'd rather look to the future, where the FLE represents only the first chapter.

You've made this point tirelessly as well, but is there anything to back it up?

You know almost everyone complaining about the FLE also said Idol would fail quickly and TSMM was just a lazy application of "screen technology".

Scary to think that TSMM was the attraction Disney proposed to JK Rowling and Warner Bros for Harry Potter:dazzle:

Yep, almost everyone said that. I didn't because I don't allow my common sense to be overcome by some personal agenda or vendetta.

The FLE will be bigger, better and more successful than AIE and TSMM added together and then some. It will be bigger than Everest and have as big an immediate impact as DAK did when it opened.
I really don't see how it could be bigger than Everest. It only aims at the one demographic that must go to MK no matter what and often. Of course it will be bigger than Idol and TSMM because those were minor (read: cheap) additions. Although, the return on investment for TSMM cannot be undervalued here.

Responses in bold.

It obviously hasn't failed "quickly", but it certainly hasn't met expectations.
Enough so that a theme change is already being talked about.

Simon Cowell's "The X Factor"? They'd be smart to be proactive about this. Idol will stop being relevant (if you still consider it relevant) when Simon leaves. I do like this attraction though, but I have to wonder if it's because of the people working there:xmas:

 

[Wilt Dasney]

No, actually it keeps getting better. Sorry but not drinking the kool-aid. But I aim to find out who is trying to serve it up.

Sure...you've just independently reached the exact same conclusion as Disney's marketers, you rugged free thinker.

 

[TP2000]

As I have said before, if they want new guests in the park, if they want The Smith family from Des Moines to decide they really need to get back down to the MK, they need a new signature E. Like ToT, like Everest, like Splash, and yes, like Forbidden Journey. That will make news, that will generate vacation bookings, that will get people talking about the park.
FLE will not.

I agree for the most part. Although from all the big talk about DCA's version of Little Mermaid lately, I expect people to be running to it in DCA at rope drop in 2011, and in Magic Kingdom a year or so later. But does it have that pull in Magic Kingdom by 2013 and after?

You won't really be able to judge Mermaid's pull in DCA a year later, because that's when Cars Land and Radiator Springs Racers opens and blows everything else out of the water. >Nice 2 minute video of overview of Cars Land and the three attractions there in 2012>> http://www.ocregister.com/video/?videoId=70406711001&play=now

Ever seen Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland just after the park opens? A huge mad rush of people run towards it, and the line instantly explodes and the Fastpass area is mobbed. And that ride just celebrated its 15th anniversary last week.

I have a strong hunch Radiator Springs Racers is going to be the same scene at DCA for the next decade at least; the MUST SEE ride of the park. But that's why it will knock Little Mermaid off its pedestal quickly in '12.

It will be interesting to see how Little Mermaid slots in to the heirarchy at Magic Kingdom and DCA, with DCA having nearly as many attractions in 2012 (30 Attractions) as Magic Kingdom will have in 2012 (36 Attractions).

 

[nibblesandbits]

The rumored scaling back is just rumors. Propagated by the usual suspects around here.
Second, this is only one aspect of Disney's response. Rather than over-reacting, as they have foolishly done in the past, Disney is in "wait and see" mode. I think that is wise because.....

.....third, Disney will reap overflow from TWWoHP without spending a dime this summer. Then they will know how and when they need to respond.

The mouse is getting wiser in his senior years.

Oh, you mean people who actually have their ear to the ground at Disney? :lookaroun

 

[jt04]

If you have a 5 year old girl otherwise besides looking nice doesn't offer much. And AI has not really been a success JT.

Time will tell.

It obviously hasn't failed "quickly", but it certainly hasn't met expectations.
Enough so that a theme change is already being talked about.


Now that's just crazy talk.:ROFLOL:
Everest had a massive impact on DAK, enough so that they are tremendously fearful of closing it for any length of time to fix it's technical issues. No attraction since ToT has had such a major impact on a park.

The FLE will not cause a significant bump in either profit or turnstile clicks for MK. They are "preaching to the choir", and providing new things to do for guests that would already be in that park. All that will happen is the FL crowds will be more spread out.
Granted, they may get a few more bodies in the park to ride LM and eat at BatB....but that's it.

As I have said before, if they want new guests in the park, if they want The Smith family from Des Moines to decide they really need to get back down to the MK, they need a new signature E. Like ToT, like Everest, like Splash, and yes, like Forbidden Journey. That will make news, that will generate vacation bookings, that will get people talking about the park.
FLE will not.

I think you are wrong. I think word of mouth will create a tsunami of sorts. Meeting the characters these kids grew up watching in a magical personal setting is going to become a must see experience for kids. You can save this and throw it back at me if I'm wrong. But I won't be. Not worried at all.

Exactly while I find FLE to be dissapointing it is still a welcom e addition that will help with guest flow but adding to capacity will reall be the only affect. 98% of people will not book a trip bacause of FLE while it is a nice bonus it is not going to bring people into the park.

Time will tell. I won't gloat too much.

Oh, you mean people who actually have their ear to the ground at Disney? :lookaroun

The reliable sources here haven't exactly been tripping over themselves to renounce what I am saying about the FLE now have they? Lee hated the concept from the beginning so he's not exactly objective. Same with Goofy.

The FLE will amaze people. Similar to how people were confounded by Alice's box office. I remember the long explanations I made here explaining how it would take several years to turn around all of Disney's divisions. But it is happening and we are really about to see the full effect. FLE is just one aspect of it.

 

[nibblesandbits]

Yes, this point has been made, tirelessly so.

But the key is that SM was approved by a management system that no longer exists. So obsessing on the way things were done in the past seems a waste of time IMO. I'd rather look to the future, where the FLE represents only the first chapter.

You know almost everyone complaining about the FLE also said Idol would fail quickly and TSMM was just a lazy application of "screen technology".

Yep, almost everyone said that. I didn't because I don't allow my common sense to be overcome by some personal agenda or vendetta.

The FLE will be bigger, better and more successful than AIE and TSMM added together and then some. It will be bigger than Everest and have as big an immediate impact as DAK did when it opened.

I'm not saying (and I'm sure others would agree) that FLE won't be successful...I'm sure it will be. Guests will flock to this because it is the first major expansion in YEARS. Edit: However, I agree with Lee in his sentiments that it won't bring in new guests...mearly a lot of people who are atuned to Disney and/or people who live in Florida and also nearby states. It will cause these kinds of people to come down...for sure.

However, that being said...I agree with others who would have liked to see more coming to the expansion than what's announced. And I'm someone who plans on having kids around the time this expansion will be finished. I would like to see something a little more substantial than what's been announced. Especially for an expansion that's of this size.

In a weird way, I would have almost rather have seen them piece this out more than they are. I would have liked to see them do this in smaller bits to do it right and to have possibly allowed for more money to be released (ha! Fat chance, since we're dealing with TDO...but a girl can dream). I would have liked to have seen one or two sections built at a time. That way, the money wouldn't have to be spread so thin to try to build a large expansion all at once.

That being said, I'm still excited to see expansion in any of the parks and am anxious to see how this turns out. I just wished, in a small way, we would have seen a bit more.