News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Dranth]

I clicked through a bunch of the tweets and other news sites referenced from the USA Today story.

It seems, they're really upset about this part of the bill analysis:


The perspective is that this is Disney getting special tax exemptions and not having to pay taxes. Reading those perspectives, I'm struck by one of two reactions. First, they're all being super disingenuous, grasping at straws to make an argument, and looking for anything that sounds bad without context to hang an argument on. Since most good lies start with a truth and then distort it. Second, and at this point, just as likely, they're all stupid and they've bought in on the entire "Disney is RCID they're the same thing" and do not understand how local government works at all.

At this point, I'm not sure which one it is. My gut says it's the first, but there's clearly lots of people where it's the second.

People have that perception because that is how Florida tried to frame it. They are the ones that went out there spewing absolute nonsense about how the district worked. Now that they basically left it functioning as it was and only changed who runs it, the very people they were trying to sell this to as a big win are pointing out they didn't address most of things Florida said was wrong with it to begin with.

What those people don't know, and the current state government of Florida isn't going to tell them, is that they aren't changing those things because what they told people was BS to begin with and would be an incredibly stupid idea.

 

[lazyboy97o]

People have that perception because that is how Florida tried to frame it. They are the ones that went out there spewing absolute nonsense about how the district worked. Now that they basically left it functioning as it was and only changed who runs it, the very people they were trying to sell this to as a big win are pointing out they didn't address most of things Florida said was wrong with it to begin with.

What those people don't know, and the current state government of Florida isn't going to tell them, is that they aren't changing those things because what they told people was BS to begin with and would be an incredibly stupid idea.

And this BS is just being regurgitated by the press. That’s the big problem with the USA Today article. It doesn’t actually question or verify the statements made by those involved, it just repeats them as fact. Even outlets like The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal keep referring to the District as “Disney’s special tax district.” These “analyses” completely miss what is going on because they just accept the gaslighting as true.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If the announcement truly means there is no legal challenge, then this is Iger's strategy to not let DeSantis get the spotlight here. I think the waiting period now has started the clock on the real negotiations: who are the commissioners going to be? DeSantis will shake down Disney for campaign contributions, which he will get (and was likely the whole point of this infantile exercise) in exchange for Disney having significant say in who the commissioners will be and what will continue as status quo and what will change. Probably some part of RCID's taxes will go to Orange and Osceola counties too I'm guessing as a way for DeSantis to reward his political vassals.

In the end, DeSantis will claim a symbolic victory over "woke" Disney for his base, while operationally not much will change. The only scary thing for Disney is that they are now at the whim of the governor's office. If they don't do what the governor wants, they can be severely punished.

But then again, DeSantis won't be governor forever...

Why didn’t Disney negotiate out the needless expenses like renaming if they have an ability to seriously negotiate?

The District cannot give funds Orange and Osceola County, and Orange County would not at all be described as a “vassal” of the state.

 

[mmascari]

referring to the District as “Disney’s special tax district.”

Isn't that technically true, sort of, mostly. Isn't RCID a special tax district. That it belongs to Disney is a stretch. However isn't Disney the largest land owner with the most acres of land contained within the district, and I assume the largest payer of RCID taxes. That sort of makes it a Special Tax District that applies mostly to Disney. That's the reverse ownership though, the district isn't owned by Disney. Instead the District imposes it's rules mostly on Disney.

Where they all go off the rails though, is in the implication that it exempts Disney from any taxes instead of imposing extra special additional taxes on Disney. From the politicians, I assume this is a deliberate misconception they're pushing. From the media, I assume it is just poor reporting. So much reporting is just note taking and repeating things without any context or fact checking these days.

Which creates a strange set of circumstances. An example where a local government in FL issues bonds to say build a bridge overpass. The arguments against tax exemption are saying that should not be possible. Taken at face value, they're saying if Tallahassee wants to issue bonds to fund a road project, it shouldn't be allowed. I don't believe any politician actually thinks that, which is why I think it's a deliberate misconception and lie they're making.

Good lies always start with some true nugget in the core before they distort it.

 

[flynnibus]

The point though is that he wanted to use this to raise money. If he's getting attacked over it then it's having the opposite effect.

Nah - this is the same in every race before the party picks a single head to promote. They're all evil idiots until he's YOUR evil idiot and then you sing his praises. This is how campaigning works

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You don't get the same number of clicks praising someone as you do for hating on them. That's all this stuff is.. people trying to make themselves relevant.

Sad isn’t it? Especially since it works.

I think it’s also why we see all candidate as evil, no one tells us why we should vote FOR them, it’s just months of everyone telling us why the other guy/gal is evil and we shouldn’t vote for them.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

What a gong show.

They decided they needed to punish Disney without knowing how things actually worked, and set a plan in motion.

At some point the powers that be were presumably told, 'uh, there are complications with this in terms of bond debt and whether or not Disney actually doesn't pay their fair share of taxes', and they had to come up with this plan that doesn't change much, in order to save face.

What are they going to do with their newfound power over the board? Stop Disney from investing? Disney's success is Florida's success.

Plus, if other businesses now decide not to go anywhere near Florida, Disney becomes even more important to them.

 

[matt9112]

Different legislation to prohibit financial institutions from utilizing ESG (environmental, social and governance) criteria.

That E would be another reason why Disney would be shortsighted to not challenge changes to the District. The board of supervisors would have the power to change the source of electricity in the District. They could dismantle or sell off the solar farms (after dealing with any relevant bonds). They do something like specifically seek out coal or gas generated electricity to help support American industry. Disney’s Green strategy at Walt Disney World was very much enabled by the Reedy Creek Improvement District and a lot of that work could be undone by the District.

Any evidence this entire process is as you see it some kind of environmental attack?

 

[matt9112]

What a gong show.

They decided they needed to punish Disney without knowing how things actually worked, and set a plan in motion.

At some point the powers that be were presumably told, 'uh, there are complications with this in terms of bond debt and whether or not Disney actually doesn't pay their fair share of taxes', and they had to come up with this plan that doesn't change much, in order to save face.

What are they going to do with their newfound power over the board? Stop Disney from investing? Disney's success is Florida's success.

Plus, if other businesses now decide not to go anywhere near Florida, Disney becomes even more important to them.

Florida has some of the highest net migration in the country. Some companies may look elsewhere but to be frank they probably already do. This doesn’t change anyones opinion you either hate Florida or love it still. I agree though it was a dumb idea from the start. But one could argue letting companies create there own city’s is a dumb idea but it’s done all over the world.

 

[flynnibus]

What are they going to do with their newfound power over the board? Stop Disney from investing? Disney's success is Florida's success.

As it stands - they will have decoupled the cozy relationship Disney had with its local govs. How they will use that new found power? Well that's up to them isn't it.. but sometimes just having the weapon is deterrent enough to get your way.

The district could simply stop doing projects that otherwise could be private funded... and force Disney into doing it themselves and then have it handed to the district to maintain. This is the norm everywhere else.. thus negating Disney's financing advantages for a cool political win.

They could limit what the District builds and force Disney to do more themselves... thus negating Disney's financing and tax advantages for such things.

That's just all the stuff that is 'most likely' to happen. Then we get into all the stuff that COULD happen.. like becoming a difficult regulatory partner by slowing down, nick picking, not being cooperative for work Disney needs for their projects. Or forcing new regulations or oversight that could be burdensome, even doing it for spite, etc.

When you have a difficult partner you must appease, now they have new leverage. When you have little public accountability, that combination is an easy path for corrupt behavior. Which is sad

One can easily say Disney's past relationship wasn't pure - but it generally was one that both the public and Disney benefited from.

In the state of Florida that praises how little tax they charge and is their biggest asset in being 'business friendly' - I don't find the argument that they were upset over Disney's tax savvy strategies leveraging RCID all that convincing. If missing out of tax revenue is such a problem for them... I think they are in the wrong state

 

[mightynine]

And we have the party of Big Government insisting that it’s OK for an enormous corporation to run its own government.

Sadly, this is why I have little faith in the courts sorting this out. A justice like Thomas will figure out some way to support DeSantis, even though he ruled in favor of Citizens United, while a justice like Sotomayor will figure out some way to support Disney, even though she opined against Citizens United.

Is it any wonder Disney decided to let this go, rather than seek relief from the courts?

But Citizens United was more concerned about limits to campaign donations as an expression of free speech, right? How would this impact an agreed compact between two parties?

 

[kong1802]

But Citizens United was more concerned about limits to campaign donations as an expression of free speech, right? How would this impact an agreed compact between two parties?

CU essentially says that corporations are individuals as it pertains to free speech protections.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Isn't that technically true, sort of, mostly. Isn't RCID a special tax district.

Yes, it is technically true but it comes from the lie. People didn’t really describe the Reedy Creek Improvement District in such terms in the past. When most people think of a special tax deal they think of not paying taxes or rebates for commercial endeavors, not double taxes on a lot of things and no taxes on infrastructure.

 

[Minthorne]

Why didn’t Disney negotiate out the needless expenses like renaming if they have an ability to seriously negotiate?

The renaming is the symbol of victory. I bet it was nonnegotiable.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The renaming is the symbol of victory. I bet it was nonnegotiable.

What about reviewing that the Florida Fire Prevention Code is in line with the Florida Fire Prevention Code? There’s a whole regulatory review that has to be initiated when this goes into effect.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What are they going to do with their newfound power over the board? Stop Disney from investing? Disney's success is Florida's success.

The announcement yesterday was all about limit how and what companies can do in regards to financial and investment decisions.

 

[lazyboy97o]

CU essentially says that corporations are individuals as it pertains to free speech protections.

Corporate personhood and speech rights pre-date Citizens United.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Any evidence this entire process is as you see it some kind of environmental attack?

The governor’s speech yesterday that specifically attacked decisions based on environmental factors…

 

[peter11435]

I don't agree with this. The issue is government over reach, not if Disney should have the district to begin with. Ask a court if DeSantis overreached and I would imagine they say yes, ask them if Florida can unravel the district, they likely say yes as well.

And that’s the only reason I can see not to fight this. They could almost certainly win and stop the states current efforts. But that wouldn’t be the end.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Citizen's United reversed McConnell and Austin.

As stated in Citizen's United:

In McConnell v. Federal Election Comm’n, 540 U. S. 93, 203–209, this Court upheld limits on electioneering communications in a facial challenge, relying on the holding in Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce, 494 U.S. 652, that political speech may be banned based on the speaker’s corporate identity.​

This is significant for Disney.

Once again, you are taking a phrase and slathering it around well beyond its context and intent. The Federal Elections Act didn’t prohibit all corporate speech related to politics. Disney would have been allowed to issue a statement just as they did.