News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
This is completely disingenuous. We’re not talking about customers deciding not to patronize Disney.
We are talking about a business making a choice on how to speak or not speak about something whether it would cause backlash from a political party, a religion, or a government. Everyone wants to scream "They have a right to say what they want" . I am not questioning that. I am saying sometimes you weigh what a choice may result in down the road.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Huh? RCID allowed Disney to get a jump on Universal, allowing it to open a full year before its competitor due to the comparatively streamlined permitting process.
Disney and Universal never would have followed the same permitting process. In the 1980s the City of Orlando was allowed to enforce the EPCOT Building Code as one of the four model codes local governments were required to enforce (a law that came after the Magic Kingdom opened).
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
We are talking about a business making a choice on how to speak or not speak about something whether it would cause backlash from a political party, a religion, or a government. Everyone wants to scream "They have a right to say what they want" . I am not questioning that. I am saying sometimes you weigh what a choice may result in down the road.
But a business shouldn't have to fear retaliation from the government due to the first amendment.

There is a huge difference between Disney speaking out about something and customers boycotting them versus a government punishing them for exercising their right to free speech.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
They rule on all kinds of things; but their legitimacy in the public consciousness depends on how congruent the public's understanding of citizens' rights is to the court. The court has no real, functional check on its power once a justice gets their seat; they can be impeached and convicted but outside of a violent state crime, I can't see that ever happening. That people can choose to think the court is not a legitimate institution is the closest check the people have on the power of the court. At some point, that could become a problem for those on the bench.
People can choose to think whatever they want. That’s why we call it a choice. But it’s not a check. And it doesnt change the constitution as it relates to the courts. Unless of course we change the the constitution.

What is a problem is when the other, coequal branches, threaten the courts. Flirt with retaliation. In this thread, I know people care about retaliation.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
One thing I will say is that the right to free speech and the ability to reason on whether or not to exercise it would be my whole take on the start of this. When I ran a hotel, I spent a lot of time interacting with my guests. Sometimes I knew them by first name, year after year when they stayed with us. Do you know how many of them knew my politics? None! It just made no sense. I certainly didn't have a banner endorsing one party behind the front desk. Did I have that right? Yes, I certainly did because I owned the hotel. Did it make good business sense? No, because it would alienate half of my guests. Another example: I am a retired LEO. I had a "Back the Blue" window decal on my car in Chicago. During the Summer of 2020 someone broke out 3 of my car windows while I was dining out with my wife. Did I have the right to have that window decal on my car? Of course I did. Should I have had the common sense to remove due to the backlash against police that was going on at the time. Yes, I wish I would have done just that. Hind sight is 20/20 but having a "right" and choosing whether it is a good idea to exercise that right are two different things. We all agree that Disney has the right to say many things under the 1st amendment, but is it always the best choice for business to do so?
It does risk alienating its customers and facing retaliation from them. But in our country, it does not risk retaliation from the government.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
We are talking about a business making a choice on how to speak or not speak about something whether it would cause backlash from a political party, a religion, or a government. Everyone wants to scream "They have a right to say what they want" . I am not questioning that. I am saying sometimes you weigh what a choice may result in down the road.
Government retaliations should not be one of those choices. That being the calculus is a huge problem. This is also not about a single incident and issue. At some point somebody was going to realize that the Reedy Creek Improvement District was a target to try and influence Disney’s creative and management decisions, which is exactly what is happening.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
We are talking about a business making a choice on how to speak or not speak about something whether it would cause backlash from a political party, a religion, or a government. Everyone wants to scream "They have a right to say what they want" . I am not questioning that. I am saying sometimes you weigh what a choice may result in down the road.
But the business does not have to factor in government retaliation. That’s prohibited by our constitution.
 

fgmnt

Well-Known Member
People can choose to think whatever they want. That’s why we call it a choice. But it’s not a check. And it doesnt change the constitution as it relates to the courts. Unless of course we change the the constitution.

What is a problem is when the other, coequal branches, threaten the courts. Flirt with retaliation. In this thread, I know people care about retaliation.
I explicitly said it was as close to a check you could have on an entity that is without any functional checks.
Also, you can totally constitutionally threaten the court; the 32nd president did it. Whether the state is within its constitutional rights to issue reprisal against an entity for its speech is the discussion in here.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Also, you can totally constitutionally threaten the court; the 32nd president did it.
I wasn’t speaking constitutionally. I just said it’s a problem. The courts just came up because that is actually where a lawsuit by Disney would end up. If it got to that point.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
Community development districts very much exist for the benefit of developers.
I'll give you that, but I think you and I can both agree there's a difference between Lennar building a development and selling the homes off to many individual homebuyers, profiting once, and Disney building an entertainment complex 50+ years ago and continuing to profit off it ever since.

Not to mention the size, influence and value of the respective companies.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
I'll give you that, but I think you and I can both agree there's a difference between Lennar building a development and selling the homes off to many individual homebuyers, profiting once, and Disney building an entertainment complex 50+ years ago and continuing to profit off it ever since.

Not to mention the size, influence and value of the respective companies.
The conservative Heritage Foundation once published an analysis of Reedy Creek, arguing that it was a model for private development and upending bureaucracy, allowing a private company to build something that no one had before while getting government out of the way (remember when small government was all the rage?). The analysis argued that improvement districts like Reedy Creek should be adopted all over the country for companies wanting to build innovative things.

Fascinating how what was once conservative orthodoxy has taken a complete 180 degree turn.

Also - why should the size of the company matter? I thought the idea was that success shouldn't be punished?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'll give you that, but I think you and I can both agree there's a difference between Lennar building a development and selling the homes off to many individual homebuyers, profiting once, and Disney building an entertainment complex 50+ years ago and continuing to profit off it ever since.

Not to mention the size, influence and value of the respective companies.
The difference is that Disney has to keep paying the bills for the infrastructure while the housing developer gets to pass those off to others. You’re still barking up the tree of Disney avoiding some burden. The District implemented a regulatory environment where one largely did not exist. Disney isn’t getting a whole host of services for which they pay the counties.

Why does financial success become a factor? Walt Disney Productions was a rather small company in the 1960s. When did they become too big to pay for their own services and should have started sharing those costs with taxpayers?
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
But a business shouldn't have to fear retaliation from the government due to the first amendment.

There is a huge difference between Disney speaking out about something and customers boycotting them versus a government punishing them for exercising their right to free speech.

It does risk alienating its customers and facing retaliation from them. But in our country, it does not risk retaliation from the government.

Government retaliations should not be one of those choices. That being the calculus is a huge problem. This is also not about a single incident and issue. At some point somebody was going to realize that the Reedy Creek Improvement District was a target to try and influence Disney’s creative and management decisions, which is exactly what is happening.

But the business does not have to factor in government retaliation. That’s prohibited by our constitution.
I can give you all the same answer. I certainly do not condone what has happened here. Government retaliations should never happen, but they do by both political parties. When you make a choice, there will be a reaction by someone. It may be good for your company, it may be bad, or it may have no result. This is why a business usually looks deep into a choice they make, rather than a knee jerk reaction to some noise on social media.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I can give you all the same answer. I certainly do not condone what has happened here. Government retaliations should never happen, but they do by both political parties. When you make a choice, there will be a reaction by someone. It may be good for your company, it may be bad, or it may have no result. This is why a business usually looks deep into a choice they make, rather than a knee jerk reaction to some noise on social media.
Again, we are not talking about a single choice related to a single issue. You are in effect arguing that all content and management decisions at Disney, across the globe, should try to avoid political retaliation in Florida, because that is what this is actually about.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I agree that free speech without retaliation is a bedrock of democracy.

But what Disney uniquely enjoys with RCID is a corporatocracy.

The RCID started because the county and the state did not have the means to provide for all the infrastructure that Disney needed because, at the time, Disney was far from utility services and the local counties were mostly farmland and swamps.

Disney received this benefit of building the infrastructure at no extra cost to the county or state. What a deal that was having to pay for it themselves!

In fact, Disney then paid county property taxes to the county on top of that without receiving from the county any of the utility services that other parks get, like Universal.

Universal expands and the county pays for part of the new roads needed to handle the crowds. Universal is getting county services from the taxes it paid to the county. (And also from the taxes Disney paid to the county.)

Disney doesn't get back any utilities or services from the county even though they're paying county taxes.

So, there is a trade off here. Disney gets utility services as they would like it, but, they're paying 100% for it. *AND* Disney is paying county taxes on top of that for which they get no return.

Now, should that deal end? Maybe. Is Orange and Osceola counties ready to take over the utilities of WDW? Not at all. Not without raising the taxes on everyone in the county, including Universal.

Disney is not costing the taxpayers anything. And on top of that, Disney pays taxes for the services that taxpayers enjoy.

Some corpratocracy. Disney pays twice.

But ending that RCID arrangement isn't really the biggest sticking point. Notice that DeSantis and the Republican legislature aren't looking to end it!! But that's what they promised!!!

Instead, they're allowing it to continue because they realize the corporatocracy is to their benefit so that they don't have to pay for Disney's infrastructure.

Instead, they want to control it as punishment for Disney having a political opinion. And the ability to have leverage over Disney if Disney dares to air another constitutionally protected opinion.
 
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