News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

It just keeps getting better. This article outlines the potential paths to a resolution, and also the pitfalls associated with each one of them. The way this was rush may really put Disney in the driver's seat to lower their tax bill.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260783972.html

Summary for the cheapskates?

 

[flynnibus]

I really don't see how they're going to do this. Fitch basically said that the only viable solution is to reconstitute the district, maybe with a different administrative structure, but with all the powers and rights that it had before.

Now, DeSantis could try to put in a district that has administration from the counties or from the state as opposed to the Disney elected administrators, but that would run afoul of the homestead guarantee in the Florida Constitution.

I don't see a way out for DeSantis at this point or even some face saving measure. His choices are to basically repeal the dissolution, or tank the Florida economy.

My guess is their simple strategy is to define a new district, in the same spot, make the law say it rolls all obligations, but has new scope and somehow redefine the admin so disney doesn’t get to own all the admin positions.

How you get there is kinda messy… there are a lot of requirements and ifs and buts in the law and state constitution now around how these get created. But I’d bet money that’s their plan. RCID II - under new management

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

But I was looking forward to a nuclear plant with mouse ears!

 

[mmascari]

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

I still think a new District could violate the state’s pledge since it is for the specific district. It doesn’t say the District and it’s successors.

While the rhetoric is largely detached from actuality, there was the small bit of awareness that pretense was necessary. Other districts were effected to give cover for the open retaliation. Any fix related to Reedy Creek is now a special deal for Disney. It’s the exact opposite of the claims.

They could undo the currently passed that dissolves. Introduce new legislation that modifies all special districts that were previously granted rights to nuclear power plants with some new constraint. Existing district still exists, solves the bond problem and all the collateral damage. How many could there be? Plus, it's not like any were probably using that right.

Publicly decree from on high at every media outlet possible that they "put Disney in it's place" by modifying the district's rights.

Just gloss over what those modifications are, it's all go forward and eliminates all the bond issues. It's not like the media is big on nuance reporting.

The point being, the best case scenario for FL is to just undo what was passed. The best case political scenario is to keep saying whatever they want and not care about any reality.

 

[flynnibus]

Free speech goes both ways.

Not entirely when you are government yourself. Which is why 1a cases for government employees was such a special case to interpret… and they have constraints.

Nevermind the usual standards of decorum… but thag seems to be fading fast

 

[flynnibus]

One thing is for sure the Florida economy is too diverse for this RCID issue to cause it to tank. Exaggerations are not helpful.

You don’t understand what bond ratings mean do you?

They are talking about hurting the bond ratings of all municipal bonds in fl because of the prescient it sets about the future stability of something in fl.

It would hurt the borrowing ability of everyone… and that hinders things getting done

 

[mikejs78]

My guess is their simple strategy is to define a new district, in the same spot, make the law say it rolls all obligations, but has new scope and somehow redefine the admin so disney doesn’t get to own all the admin positions.

How you get there is kinda messy… there are a lot of requirements and ifs and buts in the law and state constitution now around how these get created. But I’d bet money that’s their plan. RCID II - under new management

The thing is I don't think they can do this. The home rule provision of the constitution would require a vote of any residents of said new district. Disney would just be able to vote it down. The reason it works for other entities in the state is because usually there aren't any residents, or there are any municipalities involved as we have in the case of LBV and Bay Lake.

There's also the question on whether a newly constituted district would satisfy the provisions of the contract - given that the contract specifically references the entity of Reedy Creek. They can't modify any of the powers of Reedy Creek and still maintain the bond contract, which is basically what Fitch said today.

 

[mikejs78]

Summary for the cheapskates?

I don't know how I got access to it because I don't subscribe. I'll summarize it after lunch.

 

[flynnibus]

Summary for the cheapskates?

Nothing much we haven’t already covered.

Just highlighted that the two cities still represent a fly in the ointment

 

[chrisvee]

Conversely, if you agree with what Disney has done, buy more Disney stock, purchase more Disney products, watch more Disney movies, and plan more WDW vacations.

Especially that last one!

(Says the person whose next Orlando trip is a week away. )

Enjoy! We’re headed back in Aug and Oct.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Conversely, if you agree with what Disney has done, buy more Disney stock, purchase more Disney products, watch more Disney movies, and plan more WDW vacations.

Especially that last one!

(Says the person whose next Orlando trip is a week away. )

I slightly have to wonder on the last one a little.

WDW is a vacation destination. I think many vacationers want to escape when they vacation. They might not be eager to think about politics. Or to enter any location that has become a target of social media kookiness.

 

[flynnibus]

The thing is I don't think they can do this. The home rule provision of the constitution would require a vote of any residents of said new district. Disney would just be able to vote it down. The reason it works for other entities in the state is because usually there aren't any residents, or there are any municipalities involved as we have in the case of LBV and Bay Lake.

There's also the question on whether a newly constituted district would satisfy the provisions of the contract - given that the contract specifically references the entity of Reedy Creek. They can't modify any of the powers of Reedy Creek and still maintain the bond contract, which is basically what Fitch said today.

Like i said messy… tho I don’t think flat out impossible. I don’t rate my law comprehension that high that make that assertion

As fof the obligations- rollover isn’t that big of a deal IMO. This is already handled in other dissolution of cities,etc. this is not new ground.

Plus look at reedy creek itself… it’s creation included simple broad statements about assuming everything from the preceding drainage district. But still… city dismantling… including bonds… has been done.

 

[GoofGoof]

DeSantis mentioned that legislation would be forthcoming to handle the issue of debt, etc. What other nonsense could they possibly be planning?

I had read somewhere that he said all options were on the table and he was looking at potentially cancelling around half a billion dollars of various tax incentives TWDC was in the state. These were tax breaks offered through various programs including the most recent round related to bringing 2,000 jobs from CA to FL. This could all be political postering, but this whole situation has made FL a much less desirable place for companies to invest money in and move jobs to if they went forward with revoking additional tax incentives it could have massive negative impacts on future investment. I keep saying this, but the economy is cyclical and it won’t stay this good forever. Very short sighted.

One thing is for sure the Florida economy is too diverse for this RCID issue to cause it to tank. Exaggerations are not helpful.

That diversification is a double edged sword in this struggle. It’s easy to attack Disney since they have no way of pulling out of FL or moving WDW. Same for most of the tourism industry and obviously stuff like agriculture and international trade ports which cannot easily be moved. Some of the other industries can. So with biotech/pharma or manufacturing or other industries large corporations are taking notice. If the reputation is that FL is no longer pro-business and any incentives the government gives you can be revoked if you speak out in any way against the Government that hurts the chances of companies wanting to move more jobs to the state. This is especially a problem while other states are still pro-business and will gladly still offer incentives that won’t be revoked on a whim.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Are none of these news outlets reporting that the Governor thats trying to stick it to Disney is the same one giving them hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks for Lake Nona?

 

[GoofGoof]

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

That’s actually not a bad idea. Disney and RCID have absolutely no intention of ever building a nuclear power plant so it’s no harm to them. For some odd reason this aspect of the district has caught fire in conservative talk circles like it’s somehow evidence of horrible wrongdoing on the part of Disney. So strip it out and be done. Win/win

 

[chrisvee]

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

They will create a new district with a new name and take away some meaningless powers then try to spin their way to victory in the public eye.

 

[GoofGoof]

Are none of these news outlets reporting that the Governor thats trying to stick it to Disney is the same one giving them hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks for Lake Nona?

DeSantis said this action is just a first step and when asked about Disney potentially paying less in taxes without RCID he said that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes one way or another. Reading between the lines they are looking into the additional $580M in state tax credits Disney has. That includes the credits negotiated in the Lake Nona deal. The open question is whether there is still time for Disney to pull out on that project if the tax credits are at risk. That would be a major blow to the local community and from the overall size of the complex looks like it’s big enough for a lot more than the 2,000 jobs they were moving from CA. Is it possible if the deal falls through instead of adding thousands of jobs they actually move thousands out of FL? Who knows, but that’s what I would be leading with in any negotiation if I were Disney.

 

[UNCgolf]

DeSantis said this action is just a first step and when asked about Disney potentially paying less in taxes without RCID he said that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes one way or another. Reading between the lines they are looking into the additional $580M in state tax credits Disney has. That includes the credits negotiated in the Lake Nona deal. The open question is whether there is still time for Disney to pull out on that project if the tax credits are at risk. That would be a major blow to the local community and from the overall size of the complex looks like it’s big enough for a lot more than the 2,000 jobs they were moving from CA. Is it possible if the deal falls through instead of adding thousands of jobs they actually move thousands out of FL? Who knows, but that’s what I would be leading with in any negotiation if I were Disney.

I don't think there's any question Disney could pull out if they wanted. I've seen companies back out with construction almost complete; it's just a sunk cost.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Like i said messy… tho I don’t think flat out impossible. I don’t rate my law comprehension that high that make that assertion

As fof the obligations- rollover isn’t that big of a deal IMO. This is already handled in other dissolution of cities,etc. this is not new ground.

Plus look at reedy creek itself… it’s creation included simple broad statements about assuming everything from the preceding drainage district. But still… city dismantling… including bonds… has been done.

Bonds have also prevented attempts at dissolution. That’s why I’ve mentioned Robert Moses. He kept authority going by keeping the bonds going even though dissolution planned or expected.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't think there's any question Disney could pull out if they wanted. I've seen companies back out with construction almost complete; it's just a sunk cost.

And while it’s a market that has been hammered, there is still a market to sell office buildings.