News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[KrzyKtty]

No - they issue bonds to raise money to spend instead of having to save hundred of millions in cash before they do something. This is typical of all entities. They issue bonds that are secured with their future tax revenues. It's no different than you getting a loan from the bank to pay for a car and using your job history as proof of your ability to pay... or you getting a home equity load to to allow yourself to have a line of credit. The difference is a government will have to spend HUGE chunks of money at a time compared to what you as an individual would so it's not as easy for them to simply 'save up before you buy'

The news and others are mashing up different points and people are getting confused. There is the issue of their existing debt and having to pay those ongoing obligations and there is the issue of paying for all the services and liabilities the counties would inherent without any specific revenue to pay for them (think roads, services, utilities, etc). So the counties would have to inheret massive new liabilities that do not have existing funding to pay for them. That's the crux. They would have to come up with new tax revenues (which can come from a multitude of means) to pay for those things.nless I'm not understanding something, What you just said is since the district will no longer be there to pay on their bonds, and the counties are absorbing the districts, the counties will be responsible for paying for the bonds.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the district will no longer be there to pay on their bonds, and since the counties are absorbing the districts, the counties will be responsible for paying for the bonds. Since it is the district that owns the bonds and not Disney world themselves?

This is all assuming that they somehow get past the fact that the "landowners" of the district vote in favor of dissolving the district which is a requirement by law, and will never happen.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If you were talking about customers or public sentiment - you'd have a point. But we're talking about government reaction - not individuals. One is protected against by the first amendment to our constitution - the other is not.

The removal of RCID will affect many individuals.

 

[KrzyKtty]

And I'm sorry if it's coming across the wrong way, I'm not trying to be snarky at all. I really do appreciate you and the others explaining that because it's been hard to find someone who does. So I'm following up with questions to try to further understand lol

 

[flynnibus]

A drop in the bucket compared to the 2B in debt from RCID...

No, it's the inverse. The $200M number thrown around is trying to cover the annual budget expenses each year (which in itself is a disingenuius reference point). Paying for the debt is only costing <60M a year.

60M/yr debt serving << 100M+/yr operating expenses.

 

[flynnibus]

The removal of RCID will affect many individuals.

please re-read what you replied to

 

[lazyboy97o]

Putting aside the tax and debt liability issues, and political gamesmanship for a second... I'm trying to understand why Disney should be entitled to this still? If competitors like Universal and Seaworld have managed, what is the justification for keeping the status quo now that all of this desolate swampland has been developed?

Disney is still responsible for paying for all of the maintenance.

 

[Stevek]

Tom at Disney Tourist Blog dig a well written write up today

Florida Passes Bills to Dissolve Disney World's Reedy Creek Improvement District

Florida's state legislature passed a bill to dissolve the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which gives Walt Disney World its own government within Osceola and Orange County. This post takes a look at what's happened, what's

www.disneytouristblog.com

 

[CaptainAmerica]

No, but the argument is it's going to be hard for the government to show their action was not retaliatory for Disney's protected speech.

Just because the action itself is valid (taking away a state granted power) does not mean its initiation was not retaliation. Just normally politicans are far better at burying their intents in more justifiably moves. But here the Florida GOP has basically told everyone why they even initiated this kind of review/change.

Targeting all districts under a common criteria was an effort to make this appear to not be about Disney... but the blowhards have ruined that cover with their own mouths.

I'm sympathetic to all of this. My argument isn't so much a defense of what the Florida legislature is doing in 2022, it's more of a criticism if what the Florida legislature did in 1967. The state shouldn't revoke special benefits because they're unfriendly with a company? Fine. Then they shouldn't have granted the special benefits when they were friendly with the company in the first place.

 

[flynnibus]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the district will no longer be there to pay on their bonds, and since the counties are absorbing the districts, the counties will be responsible for paying for the bonds. Since it is the district that owns the bonds and not Disney world themselves?

This is all assuming that they somehow get past the fact that the "landowners" of the district vote in favor of dissolving the district which is a requirement by law, and will never happen.

Yes, this is all the 'debt' being talked about and going to the counties to have to burden in some way. But what we were explaining was the debt they have (the Bonds and other liabilities) are not due to them having to borrow money due to a deficit, but it's because that how governments finance themselves.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

Would the debt go to the Counties for sure? Is it possible it gets passed in to the Cities? These are not unincorporated areas in either County. As I stated earlier today, a possible solution for this is to spread the taxing authority and structure of RIDC among the 2 cities that comprise the district.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Disney is still responsible for paying for all of the maintenance.

Is that why the executive bonuses are so large?

 

[the_rich]

Unless you happen to own some of the bonds, there is a >99% chance that it will not affect you at all.

As an aside, the RCID issued a statement on EMMA that the legislation allows them to re-form the district under a different law, and the new district will assume the obligations of the old district. Since the RCID has a responsibility to its bondholders, my guess is that all you will see is the district changed to a CDD. It will do all of the same things except for zoning changes (I think) and Orange/Osceola counties will rubber stamp those changes (see Universal/Sea World).

What is EMMA?

 

[flynnibus]

I'm sympathetic to all of this. My argument isn't so much a defense of what the Florida legislature is doing in 2022, it's more of a criticism if what the Florida legislature did in 1967. The state shouldn't revoke special benefits because they're unfriendly with a company? Fine. Then they shouldn't have granted the special benefits when they were friendly with the company in the first place.

Point is... Florida GOP could have done this at any time... but by doing it in response to the company's criticism of the state house.. They changed the criteria and made a mess of it all.

You'll see I posted earlier in the thread the point that 'is rcid needed now vs when it was created?' - perfectly valid discussion and maybe justification to get rid of it. Problem is.. the Florida GOP threw out all objectivity about it and made it into a 1A battle.

This is what happens when you act irrationally and emotionally. Unfortunately we are talking about a political party with full control of the state government, and not just someone making a personal decision irrationally.

 

[DisneyCane]

Sad to see that The Site That Shall Not Be Named now has higher standards in their reporting of Disney news than @wdwmagic does.

WDWMagic story:

View attachment 634637

The other site's story:


View attachment 634638

Only one site manages to actually give the correct name for the bill and at least acknowledge that it's not actually called the "Don't Say Gay" bill.

All stories should call it by the real name and say that critics and opponents refer to it as the "Don't Say Gay."

Of course there's no bias at all in the reporting of these issues.

 

[flynnibus]

Would the debt go to the Counties for sure? Is it possible it gets passed in to the Cities? These are not unincorporated areas in either County. As I stated earlier today, a possible solution for this is to spread the taxing authority and structure of RIDC among the 2 cities that comprise the district.

Why is that a solution? The two Cities are even less empowered to absorb the liabilities.

But to your question of how you split it up.. I haven't seen any reference to how an independent district gets split... because RCID spanned two counties (hence it being independent). I believe this is the same concern regarding what goes to which county.

I bet you see something like a breakup of the debt based on what the bond was for. That item in Orange, ok, Orange gets that bond debt... that item in O? ok, they get that liability. And the stuff like shared resources.. maybe broke up by percentage based on use/land.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Why is that a solution? The two Cities are even less empowered to absorb the liabilities.

But to your question of how you split it up.. I haven't seen any reference to how an independent district gets split... because RCID spanned two counties (hence it being independent). I believe this is the same concern regarding what goes to which county.

Why split it up amongst such a small number of counties? When the choice is whether to build elevated highways to save the "Keys" or to bail out the debt of a corporation currently being given special consideration with its own district, perhaps all Flordians would be happier one way or the other. Split the cost amongst all the taxpayers in the Sunshine State.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

Why is that a solution? The two Cities are even less empowered to absorb the liabilities.

But to your question of how you split it up.. I haven't seen any reference to how an independent district gets split... because RCID spanned two counties (hence it being independent). I believe this is the same concern regarding what goes to which county.

I bet you see something like a breakup of the debt based on what the bond was for. That item in Orange, ok, Orange gets that bond debt... that item in O? ok, they get that liability. And the stuff like shared resources.. maybe broke up by percentage based on use/land.

I was thinking that since cities are taxing entities maybe they can take on the load here and essentially operate similarly to RCID (just with shared services agreements). But I’m sure Disney’s lawyers are working up a whole bunch of potential contingencies.

 

[DisneyNittany]

RCID going away. Does that mean... the horror... normal green road signs?

RCID may just be the start. Don’t want to be treated as a political organization? Don’t be political. If Disney continues to act as a lobbying arm for the DNC, they should expect much more pushback.

Americans with different views are not evil. Stop treating them that way. They’re potential customers. Try finding a way to respect their views, too.

The market, not the state, should be the one dealing out the “consequences” then.

If you don’t like Disney “acting as a lobbying arm for the DNC” then speak with your wallet. That requires sacrificing something though, which requires principles, which are severely lacking in our current culture.

Instead, it’s much easier to demand the state infringe upon the rights of those we disagree with.

 

[Jlasoon]

Doesn’t matter. That’s how free speech works.

Will you be the one point out these big tax benefits provided to Disney by the District?

I can spell out those 'big tax benefits' for you if you wish? I live in Orlando & work in finance. The tax breaks are nearly a $1b from the state - I can get you all the documents you want if you wish. It's all public info. Pretty easy to find if you know where to look.

The parks devision is gonna be sold off in the not too distant future. Keep watching. Money talks, BS walks. Disney has now become 'persona non grata' in the state of FL.

 

[flynnibus]

Why split it up amongst such a small number of counties?

Because they are the underlying counties of where the district was created. Basically the law says dissolution means reverting back to the prior situation. Unless someone writes new laws in the meantime, it has to be them by their location.