News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Thelazer said:
Once RCID goes away, isn't Orlando / Florida free to then spend the hotel tax money on ANYTHING they like, instead of the current agreement that says it must be spent on advertising? Could this tax revenue be redirected to pay the bonds? Would there STILL be leftover funds to improve orange county schools etc?

Old link from the Slantial..
(Which BTW, seems to indicate to me how "unfair" the Slantial thought this whole RCID guise was...was in 2019... but in 2021, MY GOD they have changed there viewpoint eh?..)

www.orlandosentinel.com

Orlando hotel taxes don’t pay for roads or housing like in other cities. One reason: Disney and Universal’s political power

From the Florida Keys to Portland, Oregon, cities are increasingly turning to tourist taxes as one way to solve problems that come with being a top travel destination. In the Keys, a portion of the…
www.orlandosentinel.com www.orlandosentinel.com
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The economy of Orlando is almost entirely dependent on tourism…no matter what the locals say…

Why would they want to do this?
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
GoofGoof said:
It doesn’t. I think he was just saying that the hotel tax money could in theory be used to pay for the bonds once RCID is dissolved if they went to Orange County. It’s not the best plan, but better than a 25% tax increase for actual taxpayers.
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The whole topic makes no sense because rcid existence has nothing to do with how much of this tax is collected or how it’s spemt. They are completely unrelated things with no influence on each other.

The counties aren’t going to stop their normal tourism spend and get the state to let them use that to pay off rcid municipal debt.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
flynnibus said:
The whole topic makes no sense because rcid existence has nothing to do with how much of this tax is collected or how it’s spemt. They are completely unrelated things with no influence on each other.

The counties aren’t going to stop their normal tourism spend and get the state to let them use that to pay off rcid municipal debt.
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I don’t disagree. It won’t happen. That’s just what the other guy was suggesting.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Sir_Cliff said:
It surprises me no-one has brought this up. Why do other companies get such a free pass? It seems the media could also do some more digging on the policies other big entertainment companies are funding in Florida.
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Disney is unique in the cultural cache of its brand. People don’t really talk about going to see a “Universal movie” the way they do a Disney movie. Even more all of their gains, Universal parks are not cultural icons like Disneyland, Walt Disney World or EPCOT Center.

Comcast is one of the most hated companies in the country. They rebranded their primary services and everyone assumed it was to get their name off the product.

Disney also way outspends everyone else when it comes to donations.
 
C

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
It doesn’t. I think he was just saying that the hotel tax money could in theory be used to pay for the bonds once RCID is dissolved if they went to Orange County. It’s not the best plan, but better than a 25% tax increase for actual taxpayers.
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In reality, hotel tax revenues cannot be the source of repayment even though it is a type of tax. The reason for that is because a very specific type of tax was pledged - property tax revenues. Hotel tax revenues are susceptible to economic downturn. Even if the economy tanks and housing values decline, the amount of property taxes levied doesn't decrease uess the taxing authority chooses to lower them (and they are obligated to levy enough taxes to pay the debt). If they switch the source of repayment then they are shifting the risk and increasing the odds of defaulting on the debt.

I honestly don't understand why some posters keep grasping at these straws when the suggestions are impossible. It's like people (not you) are rooting for Disney to lose and are trying to come up with ways to make it okay. The ad valorem tax bonds can only be paid with property tax revenues. The utility revenue bonds can only be paid with utility revenues. Anything else is a breach of the terms of the bonds.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Chip Chipperson said:
In reality, hotel tax revenues cannot be the source of repayment even though it is a type of tax. The reason for that is because a very specific type of tax was pledged - property tax revenues. Hotel tax revenues are susceptible to economic downturn. Even if the economy tanks and housing values decline, the amount of property taxes levied doesn't decrease uess the taxing authority chooses to lower them (and they are obligated to levy enough taxes to pay the debt). If they switch the source of repayment then they are shifting the risk and increasing the odds of defaulting on the debt.

I honestly don't understand why some posters keep grasping at these straws when the suggestions are impossible. It's like people (not you) are rooting for Disney to lose and are trying to come up with ways to make it okay. The ad valorem tax bonds can only be paid with property tax revenues. The utility revenue bonds can only be paid with utility revenues. Anything else is a breach of the terms of the bonds.
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Tribalism…unleashed by morons.

Living is now a team sport. Don’t fumble or you’ll lose the game.


We’ve stumbled on what can get Disney fanatics at each other’s throats even when it negatively impacts Disney.
 
L

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
…right…cause it’s this guys fault:

deadline.com

Geoff Morrell Out As Disney Communications Chief After Florida Fiascos; Kristina Schake & Horacio Gutierrez To Split Role

After less than four months, there is another changing of the communications guard at the Walt Disney Company. Battered by the ongoing battle with Florida Gov. and 2024 POTUS hopeful Ron DeSantis a…
deadline.com

🐐
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Brian said:
variety.com

Geoff Morrell Out as Disney Communications Chief After Less Than Four Months

Geoff Morrell has been pushed out as Disney communications chief in the wake of the botched 'Don't Say Gay' response.
variety.com variety.com

Not everyone is as talented as Zenia, I guess.
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Good luck to new PR chief Schalke who is replacing Morrell who resigned suddenly after less than 4 months on the job. Schalke is a recent new hire exec in Disney hired by Morrell. Good luck to her as she reports to Chapek.
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
That’s the best way to always be right👍😜

At the end of all of this it seems highly unlikely to me that it will be tolerated that a bunch of Orange and Osceola County taxpayers end up footing the bill for municipal bonds used to pay for stuff at Disney World. It’s also highly unlikely that Disney just agrees to pay off the bonds (there’s no legal way to make them do it) and may not even be possible as some of the bonds have a clause that prohibits early redemption. The only viable solution I can see is to allow RCID to continue and/or be replaced with a similar district. Disney and the state or local counties would need to agree, but that’s a win/win for everyone.
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Totally agree. If I had to guess, this will be how it plays out.
That said, we are obligated to argue about this on this thread for at least another year 😜
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Chip Chipperson said:
In reality, hotel tax revenues cannot be the source of repayment even though it is a type of tax. The reason for that is because a very specific type of tax was pledged - property tax revenues. Hotel tax revenues are susceptible to economic downturn. Even if the economy tanks and housing values decline, the amount of property taxes levied doesn't decrease uess the taxing authority chooses to lower them (and they are obligated to levy enough taxes to pay the debt). If they switch the source of repayment then they are shifting the risk and increasing the odds of defaulting on the debt.

I honestly don't understand why some posters keep grasping at these straws when the suggestions are impossible. It's like people (not you) are rooting for Disney to lose and are trying to come up with ways to make it okay. The ad valorem tax bonds can only be paid with property tax revenues. The utility revenue bonds can only be paid with utility revenues. Anything else is a breach of the terms of the bonds.
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That’s a valid point. The county would need to get a little creative then. So right now property taxes go to roads and schools and emergency services and other general expenses. If Orange County had to absorb a portion of the RCID bonds and they had to use property taxes to pay them down then their only choices are to raise taxes on all property owners or cut services. A third option would be to stop funding part of the existing services with property tax revenues and instead use hotel taxes. Many places use hotel tax revenues for roads or other specific projects. I assume it’s technically legal and doable.

I am not suggesting this is a good solution at all. Just that it could maybe be possible. I actually think it’s a terrible idea for the long term economy in the region.

To answer your second question I think some people want to see this play out how the Governor is spinning it. They want to see woke Disney get slapped down and pay a price for defying the king Governor of FL. Unfortunately the sponsors of this action never stopped to consider the details or logistics of the action and didn’t bother to consult experts who could have told them the potential pitfalls. So now those who want to see Disney pay a steep price for speaking up are trying to figure out a way to make this work out so nobody is hurt but Disney. Unfortunately there is no real details of a “plan” we just keep hearing that there will be a plan and that Disney will pay their fair share and it won’t hurt taxpayers. So far I haven’t seen a legitimate “plan” where that is the outcome.
 
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GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
donsullivan said:
The use of the Tourist taxes is highly restricted by state regulation specifically defining how much can be used for what purpose. This was done specifically to prevent communities from using it as a piggy bank for other purposes.

TDT FAQs

www.occompt.com www.occompt.com

Look specifically at- How is the Tourist Development Tax used?
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This exactly👆

The only way the plan to use those tax dollars would work is if the state legislature passed something to allow it and it would be difficult to not open flood gates for every other county. It would be a major blow to the tourism industry. Also, much of the money is used to fund existing things like stadiums and convention centers so how do you stop funding those things and move money to pay off bonds. Then there’s the political contributions coming from a whole bunch of industry players that would be at risk. Money talks and state and local politicians don’t have the big donations coming in from national sources like the Governor does. They rely almost solely on those donations to run campaigns and stay in office. It’s much to risk for a political stunt.
 
T

Thelazer

Well-Known Member
I question if those money's, as used to draw folks to Florida.. Really are needed to do that. I mean, look EVERYONE knows Florida has beaches and theme parks. Is that something that needs to be advertised anymore, people would come anyways.

The point I was making, as GoofGoof points out, is that.. creatively some of these costs could be mitigated. Is it a long shot?
Yes.. no doubt..100% it's that crazy.

But I don't believe in the "stick the tax payers of orange / Osceola with the bonds" theory.
Granted I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure there ARE lawyers on both sides, being paid TONS of money right now to figure that out.
 

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