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Fate of WDW's ToT?

TheDuke

Well-Known Member
#21
The issue with retheming ToT or RnRC is the limited rights Disney has to Marvel in Florida. We're also getting the Guardians vertical drop ride as a separate thing here, which is what ToT is being rethemed to in California, right? Not sure what else they would retheme the ride to. Maybe they'll just drop the TZ references to avoid licensing, which would be a little annoying but not the end of the world if the setting stayed the same.
 

1LE McQueen

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#22
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I hope they do away with the Twilight Zone theme. The DHS TOT has some good bones, but the effects and 5th Dimension Room are very dated and come across a tad corny. This would enable them to remove the themeing and hopefully redo some of the clunky elements to give us a modern day effects in this great ride system.
Out of curiosity, why would you want them to remove the TZ theme instead of investing money into renovating the 5th dimension and fixing the broken effects / dated elements?

The issue with retheming ToT or RnRC is the limited rights Disney has to Marvel in Florida. We're also getting the Guardians vertical drop ride as a separate thing here, which is what ToT is being rethemed to in California, right? Not sure what else they would retheme the ride to. Maybe they'll just drop the TZ references to avoid licensing, which would be a little annoying but not the end of the world if the setting stayed the same.
Thank goodness. Otherwise the entire park would be Marvel.

I don't think Guardians is going to be a vertical drop ride, but it's supposed to be a huge indoor coaster at EPCOT and i'm not sure how they secured that deal.

The licensing thing makes no sense to me. A multi-billion dollar company can't afford to keep a license for one ride? Yet Marvel is making an appearance everywhere (yeah, it's Disney, but Pandora is okay?). Makes no sense to me.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
#23
Out of curiosity, why would you want them to remove the TZ theme instead of investing money into renovating the 5th dimension and fixing the broken effects / dated elements?
Because WDW rarely puts money into effects and dated elements unless there's a retheme. DHS' certainly has the superior design for TOT, but myself and many others preferred the DCA version because it moved so much better and the effects weren't as clunky. WDW isn't going to change something that has been satisfying guests for so long unless they can pass it off as a new version of the attraction.
 

TheDuke

Well-Known Member
#24
Out of curiosity, why would you want them to remove the TZ theme instead of investing money into renovating the 5th dimension and fixing the broken effects / dated elements?



Thank goodness. Otherwise the entire park would be Marvel.

I don't think Guardians is going to be a vertical drop ride, but it's supposed to be a huge indoor coaster at EPCOT and i'm not sure how they secured that deal.

The licensing thing makes no sense to me. A multi-billion dollar company can't afford to keep a license for one ride? Yet Marvel is making an appearance everywhere (yeah, it's Disney, but Pandora is okay?). Makes no sense to me.
Well, I think the issue is stuff like SW, Marvel, and Avatar are popular right now and draw extra people to the parks (attendance is substantially up due to Pandora) whereas TZ doesn't, so you could view paying for the license as a waste of money. I personally like the TZ theme, but I would't be shocked if they drop it for that reason, but I think the "Hollywood Tower Hotel" theme will stay regardless just due to a lack of IP's that really fit with the ride.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
#25
I hope they do away with the Twilight Zone theme. The DHS TOT has some good bones, but the effects and 5th Dimension Room are very dated and come across a tad corny. This would enable them to remove the themeing and hopefully redo some of the clunky elements to give us a modern day effects in this great ride system.
So why not just update the effects?
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
#26
Because WDW rarely puts money into effects and dated elements unless there's a retheme. DHS' certainly has the superior design for TOT, but myself and many others preferred the DCA version because it moved so much better and the effects weren't as clunky. WDW isn't going to change something that has been satisfying guests for so long unless they can pass it off as a new version of the attraction.
Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, IDF, GMR, Dinosaur spring to mind.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
#27
Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, IDF, GMR, Dinosaur spring to mind.
Haunted Mansion is one of MK's staples and the "updates" were a way to make the ride more fantasy/cartoony feel that the park has taken on. What updates were done to Space, other than the games in the queue? Not really sure what IDF is. GMR had no videos cut when TCM took over sponsorship, but broken effects remained broken. Dinosaur saw some love, but that ride has always been in constant flux as it has never been the smash hit with visitors that it should have been.

If something is built as a staple of the park and it doesn't draw as it should, they'll adjust; but if the ride is already hitting with crowds or they can't draw more crowds with an IP retheme, the ride usually sits as it was.
 

1LE McQueen

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#28
Because WDW rarely puts money into effects and dated elements unless there's a retheme. DHS' certainly has the superior design for TOT, but myself and many others preferred the DCA version because it moved so much better and the effects weren't as clunky. WDW isn't going to change something that has been satisfying guests for so long unless they can pass it off as a new version of the attraction.
Interesting. So your lack of faith in Disney's current management team is the biggest reason as to why you don't mind a theme change?

I liked the DCA version but haven't done the WDW version in over 10 years. Since it's the only one I have I really would hate for it to go away.

Well, I think the issue is stuff like SW, Marvel, and Avatar are popular right now and draw extra people to the parks (attendance is substantially up due to Pandora) whereas TZ doesn't, so you could view paying for the license as a waste of money. I personally like the TZ theme, but I would't be shocked if they drop it for that reason, but I think the "Hollywood Tower Hotel" theme will stay regardless just due to a lack of IP's that really fit with the ride.
The ride is old. It had its time in the spotlight and will probably go down as one of the greatest Disney attractions of all time. It's almost like retheming Haunted Mansion or Big Thunder because they just don't bring in the crowds like they used to (even if the theme was being licensed, my same argument applies). I absolutely see your point but still.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
#29
So why not just update the effects?
The ride needs more than just a new "floating" E=MC2," it needs to be re-examined. The pacing is slow and there's a lot of lulls in the flow. New music/narration/and show scenes should be designed to update this attraction. I just don't see that happening without a reason to do so.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
#30
Haunted Mansion is one of MK's staples and the "updates" were a way to make the ride more fantasy/cartoony feel that the park has taken on. What updates were done to Space, other than the games in the queue? Not really sure what IDF is. GMR had no videos cut when TCM took over sponsorship, but broken effects remained broken. Dinosaur saw some love, but that ride has always been in constant flux as it has never been the smash hit with visitors that it should have been.

If something is built as a staple of the park and it doesn't draw as it should, they'll adjust; but if the ride is already hitting with crowds or they can't draw more crowds with an IP retheme, the ride usually sits as it was.
Space Mountain received updated visual effects and new audio effects.

Impressions de France received a digital projection system.

GMR AAs received compliant limbs. As well as the new TCM finale.

Dinosaur saw an updated audio system, new Lighting installation, new projections and new lasers.

Off the top of my head. How about PotC? Or IasW? Or AmAd?
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
#31
The ride needs more than just a new "floating" E=MC2," it needs to be re-examined. The pacing is slow and there's a lot of lulls in the flow. New music/narration/and show scenes should be designed to update this attraction. I just don't see that happening without a reason to do so.
I find the pacing perfect. But each to their own.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
#32
I find the pacing perfect. But each to their own.
There's a lot of awkward quiet moments in transitions where the energy dies. After the window breaks is pretty bad with people often laughing out loud at how ineffective that was. Another is the settling into the drop shaft. Great effect with the starfield opening up, but then the music quiets down and nothing happens as we bump and grind into the shaft. It's like the ride is saying Oooo, OOOO,...hold on, let me get this next part set up, just one second...and...okay, here we go...AAAAHHHHH.
 

1LE McQueen

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#33
There's a lot of awkward quiet moments in transitions where the energy dies. After the window breaks is pretty bad with people often laughing out loud at how ineffective that was. Another is the settling into the drop shaft. Great effect with the starfield opening up, but then the music quiets down and nothing happens as we bump and grind into the shaft. It's like the ride is saying Oooo, OOOO,...hold on, let me get this next part set up, just one second...and...okay, here we go...AAAAHHHHH.
So all it needs is a little TLC. Perhaps remake the 5th dimension to look like the hall of a haunted hotel and as the elevator travels through it, a bunch of weird, crazy, stellar effects take place. Perhaps add an effect of a rikkity, unsettling elevator immediately after the window shatter.

What you're asking for can still be done with the TZ theme intact.

I can't comment too much because again I haven't ridden it in over 10 years, but the story is perfect as is the TZ theme.
 

BraveGirl

Active Member
#34
It would be really easy to remove the TZ elements but keep the general feel of the ride the same. New story about the "Hollywood Tower Hotel." Even just the same story, but reframed as a creepy hotel instead of the twilight zone. New movie, new narration, same hotel and same general feel.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
#35
So all it needs is a little TLC. Perhaps remake the 5th dimension to look like the hall of a haunted hotel and as the elevator travels through it, a bunch of weird, crazy, stellar effects take place. Perhaps add an effect of a rikkity, unsettling elevator immediately after the window shatter.

What you're asking for can still be done with the TZ theme intact.

I can't comment too much because again I haven't ridden it in over 10 years, but the story is perfect as is the TZ theme.
The final scene with the silent Rod Serling video projected onto the wall should be replaced as well. Look, I love The Twilight Zone and the music is great for the attraction, but I don't realistically see Disney fixing these imperfections on the ride without a retheme, especially as its still one of the best attractions at the resort. Also, Disney has said they want to get rid of licencing fees, this enables them to cut Twilight Zone licencing for good and all versions of Tower attractions will be modified.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
#36
It doesn’t help there’s a lot of issues with Tower at the moment (including audio balancing in those quieter parts) that are difficult to have fixed.

Although I don’t hear people laughing anywhere in shafts A-D.
 

1LE McQueen

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#37
It would be really easy to remove the TZ elements but keep the general feel of the ride the same. New story about the "Hollywood Tower Hotel." Even just the same story, but reframed as a creepy hotel instead of the twilight zone. New movie, new narration, same hotel and same general feel.
Here's my thought process.. what are the limitations of the attraction contract? Is HTH a direct result of both CBS and Disney? Could CBS sue Disney if they kept everything and the story the same but removed all reference to the Twilight Zone?

I don't think Chapek has something like this in mind. He wants Marvel and Pixar; merchandising, advertisement, IP. I don't trust current management.

The final scene with the silent Rod Serling video projected onto the wall should be replaced as well. Look, I love The Twilight Zone and the music is great for the attraction, but I don't realistically see Disney fixing these imperfections on the ride without a retheme, especially as its still one of the best attractions at the resort. Also, Disney has said they want to get rid of licencing fees, this enables them to cut Twilight Zone licencing for good and all versions of Tower attractions will be modified.
I say no only because I do not trust Chapek and his team.. not one bit :cautious: but it sounds like you're on the right path if a change absolutely positively just had to happen.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
#38
It doesn’t help there’s a lot of issues with Tower at the moment (including audio balancing in those quieter parts) that are difficult to have fixed.

Although I don’t hear people laughing anywhere in shafts A-D.
There's always chuckles and usually an "ooookay??" after the window breaks, the doors close, and we just quietly and slowly move on. And no, it's not me doing it. :) I do prefer the false drop with the elevator in subsequent versions.
 
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