Epcot - Was it possibly new technology advances?

[KBLovedDisney]

Now I know in today's time that nostalgia plays a big role for veteran Disney goers that say Disney World was better when .... or the rides were better before they changed them back then....

However, aside from nostalgia alone, I think there might be some truth in that because during the 80s and the early 90s, there were oncoming new advances in technology that the general public was not privy to as we all are today. Disney utilized a great deal of what was to come or what was imagined to come in their rides to give us a look at what the future could hold.

Maybe, at one point in time, the creators thought that we had surpassed or advanced in technology so much that they decided no one would care for the elder yet more in-depth rides?

IMHO, I don't think the creators were thinking about "Tomorrow", but were more likely stuck in the present (and are possibly STILL stuck in the present)

But, I don't know. This kind of hit me at the end of my work day.

After stating all of that, what do you all think?

Do you think that nostalgia is really the reason we miss all the rides that were there early on, or were there more factors like oncoming technology?

(Please be kind guys. I like to hear everyone's opinion.)

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yes. When everyone has an $800 supercomputer in their pocket, impressing them with $300m attractions about "the future" is much more difficult.

 

[winstongator]

Yes. When everyone has an $800 supercomputer in their pocket, impressing them with $300m attractions about "the future" is much more difficult.

Show them all the magic behind making that supercomputer work

General Magic invented a 'nearly' iPhone in the late 90's. The iPhone succeeded because it is a great design, but another necessary condition was an ecosystem that would support it.

 

[Christian Fronckowiak]

Keep in mind, often the replacements were made under the thumb of the pavilion's sponsors. Also, Eisner was one of the folks who thought that Epcot needed "fixing."

I still believe that Epcot would be in better shape if there had been a Westcot to split development costs for new attractions.

 

[TwilightZone]

Yeah the big problem with technology is that it is always advancing, to the point that original epcot can't really happen anymore because everyone can just look up the latest tech or read about what scientists think will happen in the future now.

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

We know Epcot was so different from anything that existed beforehand, so that’s part of it. But I think it’s really bc of the “promise of the future / tomorrow’s child” premise.

The future was exciting, hopeful and a mysterious unknown, and something that could keep a conversation going indefinitely when you shared your trip. We always tend to think the world will be better off and more hope filled for our kids, etc. So this made Epcot kind of a joyous celebration for the greatness that was to come.

But of course, nostalgia is huge bc we tend to remember only the best parts of memories.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Technology is great, but it’s ruined peoples’ attention spans and makes it ever more difficult to impress.

It’s why an attraction like Test Track 2.0 is no good after 2 rides. The update was essentially entirely focused on tech and it doesn’t impress you after doing it a few times. It actually becomes a chore and you’d rather just ride.

 

[wdisney9000]

IMO, it was neither nostalgia nor the lack of being able to keep up with technology. The attractions of EPCOT past were simply better attractions with better storytelling and an extremely high rate of "re-rideability".

People often tend to focus more on Horizons and WoM when discussing EPCOT but take an attraction like Body Wars which would still be very entertaining today regardless of how fast technology has increased. Same for Cranium Command. My brother and sisters and I sat through that show countless times and it would still most likely entertain children and adults today even though we all have computers in our pockets (cell phones).

Going back to Horizons and Wom. They were outdated long before they were demolished but they were still enjoyable because they told an amazing story from start to finish and a good story never gets old. We all still enjoy PoTC , HM, CoP, Peter Pan, SSE, etc, not because of the (extremely outdated) technology they utilize, but for the story they tell. Attractions like these take you on a journey into a different time and place and they were created by men and women who put their heart and soul into every detail which truly makes the journey something you can experience time and time again and still enjoy it. I have no doubt that the Imagineers of today could pull off the same feat, but they seem to lack the freedom that Imagineers of the past had and now they are forced to give people "what they want" instead of being allowed to give the people something they never knew they wanted.

 

[danyoung56]

^^^ Nicely put!

 

[Phonedave]

I think tech today may be a little more difficult to put into an EPCOT type.

There has been some very exciting advances in neural networks. But I am not sure how you would display that.

5G fixed wireless is a game changer. Again. who wants to see a "look how much data we can pump through the EM spectrum" display is not that fun.

I just went to a SMPTE talk about ATSC 3.0. When I tell you that broadcast TV is essentially going to an IP stream, do you fully understand the implications that has for broadcast TV (and the monitization thereof)? Again, not terribly exciting for the average park guest.

There have been some great advances in metallurgy - again not that exciting for the average guest.

Maybe I lack the vision of how to make these advances fun and interesting for the average person. But I really think the old school stuff - picture phones, body systems, bioengineered foods, big robotic arms, etc were a lot easier to make fun and interactive.

 

[LUVofDIS]

There's tech, but there are things that still haven't been completed, space travel to other planets, living deep under the sea, even things about our bodies that scientist's are still learning. We have much more to do and to see it large as life in front of you would still be amazing.

 

[Goofyernmost]

We know Epcot was so different from anything that existed beforehand, so that’s part of it. But I think it’s really bc of the “promise of the future / tomorrow’s child” premise.

The future was exciting, hopeful and a mysterious unknown, and something that could keep a conversation going indefinitely when you shared your trip. We always tend to think the world will be better off and more hope filled for our kids, etc. So this made Epcot kind of a joyous celebration for the greatness that was to come.

But of course, nostalgia is huge bc we tend to remember only the best parts of memories.

What you are saying is true. The concept of EPCOT back then was doable. As was stated, we didn't have instant access to every bit of information on the planet then like we do now. Things that we know are coming today we had no way of knowing back then, so Disney via EPCOT could convey it. Keep in mind that everything that they showcased in EPCOT actually existed, it just hadn't gone public yet. Horizons did venture into the unknown, but, never really anything that we didn't think was possible. But, later a lot of it turned out to be impractical.

What really changed in the 80's was the speed which things advanced. Previous to that things happened but, not at warp speed that had happened by the end of the 80's. There isn't anyway that Disney could currently come up with concepts, create working models and be ahead of what was already there. Communication, (i.e. the internet) was speeding up the process. By the time Disney could react to new things, decide how to showcase it, build it and open up the exhibit, the item was already obsolete. It became impossible to stay ahead of the reality. So, as nostalgic and nice as it was back then, if really had no chance of maintaining the same degree of awe that it could back then. So, we do miss it, but, somewhere along the line we have to accept that it was a great time for looking ahead. We no longer can look ahead because by the time we do, it is already behind us.

 

[geekza]

What you are saying is true. The concept of EPCOT back then was doable. As was stated, we didn't have instant access to every bit of information on the planet then like we do now. Things that we know are coming today we had no way of knowing back then, so Disney via EPCOT could convey it. Keep in mind that everything that they showcased in EPCOT actually existed, it just hadn't gone public yet. Horizons did venture into the unknown, but, never really anything that we didn't think was possible. But, later a lot of it turned out to be impractical.

What really changed in the 80's was the speed which things advanced. Previous to that things happened but, not at warp speed that had happened by the end of the 80's. There isn't anyway that Disney could currently come up with concepts, create working models and be ahead of what was already there. Communication, (i.e. the internet) was speeding up the process. By the time Disney could react to new things, decide how to showcase it, build it and open up the exhibit, the item was already obsolete. It became impossible to stay ahead of the reality. So, as nostalgic and nice as it was back then, if really had no chance of maintaining the same degree of awe that it could back then. So, we do miss it, but, somewhere along the line we have to accept that it was a great time for looking ahead. We no longer can look ahead because by the time we do, it is already behind us.

You hit the nail on the head. We were spoiled by the 20th Century because so many big advances were made in a relatively brief time. We "drank the Kool-Aid" that anything was possible. Inevitably, we hit a period where advances are smaller and are more focused on improving existing tech, rather than creating new, world-changing tech. In short, reality has set in and futurism is more focused on surviving impending crises rather than leaping forward in hope and positivity. It was naive, but it sure was fun while it lasted.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

The Epcot of old told us about the tech we use today. There is nothing stopping them from showing us today what tech we will be using in 2050. Instead they want to show us a racoon with a machine gun.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You hit the nail on the head. We were spoiled by the 20th Century because so many big advances were made in a relatively brief time. We "drank the Kool-Aid" that anything was possible. Inevitably, we hit a period where advances are smaller and are more focused on improving existing tech, rather than creating new, world-changing tech. In short, reality has set in and futurism is more focused on surviving impending crises rather than leaping forward in hope and positivity. It was naive, but it sure was fun while it lasted.

Very sad... but, very true! However, the 60's were never a hotbed of smooth sailing, it just felt different then it does now. There was still hope for the future, today is not the same. In many ways we have been cheated out of our enjoyment by the actions of others.

 

[geekza]

The Epcot of old told us about the tech we use today. There is nothing stopping them from showing us today what tech we will be using in 2050. Instead they want to show us a racoon with a machine gun.

Oh, I agree that I'd much prefer a Future World that followed the original concept. Original EPCOT Center was wonderful! I guess my question is, what emerging technologies are exciting enough to make the average guest feel like they're experiencing something amazing? In 1982, computers were still a mystery to most folks. Being able to see a video phone or a touch-screen interface were things we'd only seen in Star Trek. What are the things that are just starting out that will change how we live in 20-30 years?

 

[ChrisFL]

In agreement with most of this, I had actually began writing a whole list of reasons why EPCOT Center "Failed" even though it wasn't the failure of the concept, but partially due to the rapid change in access to things. Visiting World Showcase before most people even owned a VCR was something special. Seeing a film about parts of China that had NEVER been seen before by western audiences was incredible.

I don't think Horizons ever became outdated, needed an update? SURE, but not fully outdated as a concept.

Another thing also happened...while it wasn't really a "thing" in the 80's, the idea starting around the early 90's where future could be more dystopian and big corporations could and would do more evil things became apparently.

ExxonMobil is not highly regarded in any circles unless you're an investor. Also, though not Futue World specifically, Monsanto was also a huge sponsor of Disney attractions...and that company is considered quite evil now. The mindset on how we view big corporations has changed significantly over the years.

 

[geekza]

In agreement with most of this, I had actually began writing a whole list of reasons why EPCOT Center "Failed" even though it wasn't the failure of the concept, but partially due to the rapid change in access to things. Visiting World Showcase before most people even owned a VCR was something special. Seeing a film about parts of China that had NEVER been seen before by western audiences was incredible.

I don't think Horizons ever became outdated, needed an update? SURE, but not fully outdated as a concept.

Another thing also happened...while it wasn't really a "thing" in the 80's, the idea starting around the early 90's where future could be more dystopian and big corporations could and would do more evil things became apparently.

ExxonMobil is not highly regarded in any circles unless you're an investor. Also, though not Futue World specifically, Monsanto was also a huge sponsor of Disney attractions...and that company is considered quite evil now. The mindset on how we view big corporations has changed significantly over the years.

Oh, it was a "thing" in the 80's and, from my experience, the 70's. The corporate faces have changed, but you can see it reflected in the dystopian Sci-Fi of the 1970's in films like Rollerball or Soylent Green. Heck, go back to books like The Jungle that were critical of the rise of industrialization. It goes in cycles. In the 1980's, the economy was good and America was going through a period where materialism was praised. Attitudes change depending upon the general standard of living and entertainment tends to reflect the attitudes of the time in which it is created. The 1980's were, generally, pretty hopeful and EPCOT reflected that. Right now, most folks are pretty cynical. It will swing back at some point, I hope. The hopeful attitude, I mean, not the ignorant trust in big business as the solution to the world's problems.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

In agreement with most of this, I had actually began writing a whole list of reasons why EPCOT Center "Failed" even though it wasn't the failure of the concept, but partially due to the rapid change in access to things. Visiting World Showcase before most people even owned a VCR was something special. Seeing a film about parts of China that had NEVER been seen before by western audiences was incredible.

I don't think Horizons ever became outdated, needed an update? SURE, but not fully outdated as a concept.

Another thing also happened...while it wasn't really a "thing" in the 80's, the idea starting around the early 90's where future could be more dystopian and big corporations could and would do more evil things became apparently.

ExxonMobil is not highly regarded in any circles unless you're an investor. Also, though not Futue World specifically, Monsanto was also a huge sponsor of Disney attractions...and that company is considered quite evil now. The mindset on how we view big corporations has changed significantly over the years.

The dystopian future trope has been around since at least the 1950s. Misguided scientists accidently creating 50' radioactive bugs and computers taking over a spaceship and killing everyone on the ship. But Disney didn't build a 2001 Space Oddessy attraction because they wanted to show the other more hopeful side of the coin. We believed there was hope for the future because they showed us there was hope for the future.

 

[Phonedave]

In agreement with most of this, I had actually began writing a whole list of reasons why EPCOT Center "Failed" even though it wasn't the failure of the concept, but partially due to the rapid change in access to things. Visiting World Showcase before most people even owned a VCR was something special. Seeing a film about parts of China that had NEVER been seen before by western audiences was incredible.

I don't think Horizons ever became outdated, needed an update? SURE, but not fully outdated as a concept.

Another thing also happened...while it wasn't really a "thing" in the 80's, the idea starting around the early 90's where future could be more dystopian and big corporations could and would do more evil things became apparently.

ExxonMobil is not highly regarded in any circles unless you're an investor. Also, though not Futue World specifically, Monsanto was also a huge sponsor of Disney attractions...and that company is considered quite evil now. The mindset on how we view big corporations has changed significantly over the years.

Well, that, and December 31,1983 happened - and then it all went downhill.

What happened in 1983 you ask? Divestiture of the "The Telephone Company". that is what happened.

I could go into the gory details, but basically the Bell Telephone Company had a monopoly on telephone service in the US. More than just a monopoly, it has set itself up with the sweetest of deals. It was a rate of return regulated industry - They were allowed by the government to set their rates in order to make a certain return on their investment. (I used to work in regulatory at one time).

Now for many utilities, that's a nice thing, a electric company buys it's transmission gear from some company for $100,000 and is allowed to be 6% on the investment, as long as they can show they needed that equipment.

However, the Bell Telephone Company bought almost all of their stuff from Western Electric. Who owned Western Electric you ask? Oh, they were a division of the Bell System as well. . The old Bell System was a cash cow.

So, what does this have to do with EPCOT? Bell Labs was also a division of The Bell System. Bell Labs was funded like you would not believe. They had both the money to pay the salary of top researchers, and the money to let them experiment on "random" things, with the hope that eventually they would find the results useful (profitable). There was no need to have a quick return on the investment, no stockholders were banging on the doors questioning what they were spending money on. They could just spend.

Bell Labs had over 33,000 patents.

Just a few of the things that came out of Bell Labs

Lasers
Transistors
UNIX
C
C++
Evidence of the Big Bang
Proving Matter is a Wave
Radio Astronomy
Fractional Quantum Hall Effect (Winning a Nobel Prize - 8 total won by works at Bell Labs)
Advances in Cryptography
Solar Cells
Many of the Quality Management tools used today

Bell Labs is still around today, as part of Nokia. While they still do research work, it is by no means as far flung and well funded as it once was.

Other companies had extensive research wings as well. Not just the Bell System. The current atmosphere of immediate profits and answering to The Street has really dialed back long term corporate research.

-dave