Don't wanna be angry, but I am...[Rant]

[_caleb]

Actually quite easy - you can tell in five minutes from an interview if the person has an outgoing, positive, smiling disposition. If they don't, you can train them day and night, and it won't get better - just more fake.

Decades ago Disney focused on hiring a certain fresh-faced, positive, happy profile and the results created (the now sadly gone) Disney employee mystique/brand. Now even Chik-fil-A and In-N-Out do a better job of having consistently positive and professional employees. The Disney standard is no longer discernible from Six Flags or Universal. Actually, I take that back, I've had much more consistent positive interactions at Universal parks than at Disney parks over the past few years. YMMV.

And note, nowhere did I say anything about "over the top". Over the top employees are just annoying and not professional, positive, service employees.

Easy, tiger! - I wasn’t criticizing you!

Suffice it to say that one guest’s “happy, smiling, positive, and friendly” is another guest’s “over the top.”

Kind of like members of this message board.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I appreciate the perspective. And I can understand the planning thing; I've seen a many long time fans complain about that. For me, I love it. I've mentioned before I'm a huge planner, I will literally sit at home and plan out vacations just for fun in a similar way to what WDW asks (hotel, what restaurant we visit each day, what entertainment we'll be doing at what time). So for me all the planning is actually a plus because WDW makes it so easy. But, still. I get that for people that want to be more spontaneous or who were use to the old way wouldn't like it. And we're in agreement about the ADRs. If it's too difficult to sit groups right at the ADR time, then they should make that more obvious. At the least I think they should change the ADRs to a window, so instead of booking a restaurant for 8 you would book it for something like 8-8:30.

To a certain extent....I've been a forum member for some time, and part of being a forum member is to get information. I tend to say I use strategy over plans, but that doesn't mean I don't personally prepare myself with information. I think all of us, one way or another prepare before we go to WDW.

Now I just read that folks who drive to the parks - presently - are held up at the parking lot entrance in the morning for about half an hour! longer than people who arrive via resort buses. So even if you stay onsite, if you drive, you won't be one of the first people in the park. That could be very useful info!

I don't object to WDW offering reservations, they always have. What annoys me is that WDW often doesn't really honor them. Reservations are supposed to be mutually beneficial. At WDW, they just = WE give WDW $$$$ no matter what. WDW doesn't give a fig if we are seated on time, they just care about getting our $$$, and WDW maximizes profit by pinching staff costs down to the bare bones.

I think that's also why they went to very specific date tickets.

Sadly, it isn't just Disney acting that way. Our society is out of balance.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I feel that Iger has done more and more harm for the company with each year.

How? What has Iger done that anyone else wouldn't have done? I think he didn't spend a lot of sleepless nights worrying about the parks, but he did an awful lot to strengthen and fiscally make it sound. That is partly why it can get through this Pandemic and still be there at the other end.

so the first hotel in the world i fell in love with is the contemporary (the whole monorail driving through it was seared into my young brain) and now that i know the history, mary blair mural, nixon's i am not a crook speech, the way the rooms were slid in.. my love for mid century i have to say its on my list
the last few years ive really gotten into tiki and so the polynesian is high on my list (not at the price though) even if its where the beatles broke up.

View attachment 505115

As I stated before I never went to WDW until I was 35 years old. I brought my family and we had a great time. However, we were skating on the edge of an envelope at that time. Every nickel was pinched until the eagle (well you know). I took one look at the Contemporary and at that moment decided that I was going to stay there and I wanted a top floor room facing MK.

Through the years as my financial situation improved, it always seemed that Disney raised the priced to the point where I still couldn't afford it. So I never went. I do most of my travel solo now and can scrape the money together to stay there but now it just seems to me to not be worth what it cost to do that. I guess I just never really wanted to stay there that bad. Now that I can, I don't want too.

The pricing changes are what stopped me from spending the amount of time there that I once did. I can justify the ticket cost but I still remember when it was $35.00 for a three day Passport and was an automatic park hopper. I was never one for the extras ever. I went to basically see the attractions, soak in the atmosphere, hum along with the background music and watch people, especially small kids both when they were having a great time and when they had a melt down. The whole thing amused me. Now I go and it is all pre-recorded and programed months before you ever arrive. I still handle the place like I once did, I do reserve FP's and utilize what I can of that program, but I don't stay onsite and if I make an ADR it is just one for each trip. I come and go when I please, but I still have to commit to certain specific days in a park where I once made the decision of which one to go to while eating my massive $6.00 breakfast Buffet offsite and dinner with no reservations in the evening timed around a small rest break and foot cooling down before spending the evening in the park (of my choice). I always had a Park Hopper.

 

[Benjamin_Nicholas]

It never was. But he concept of longterm loyalty/merit is something any business should have to reckon with...in the market. It’s natural and serves a very important function.

Apple today...after having some noticeable bumps the last 5 years...released an expensive flagship product that does nothing interesting.
It should be rejected.

Or does “I love apple...nothing is gonna chance that...” make sense?

All just disposable products.

Apple released products today that have a lot of 'firsts' for their hardware. Nothing interesting? I beg to differ.

However, I get what you mean when it comes to the fanatics. They will buy anything and then act like scorned lovers when things don't go exactly as they had imagined. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Many people blindly follow without understanding why. When they have little disposable income to be doing so, they eventually wake up in a rather bitter mood.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There's SO MUCH I could say in response here. I'll just say, that the magic has faded. When a FANTASYLAND getaway bows to the will of a Socialist PC gang, and intends to change their rides as a result, then you have just dragged the REAL world into the FANTASY getaway. Magic gone. I haven't been inside the Parks since 2005. For many reasons. And I NOW live in SoFlo. Just a little more than 3 hours away from WDW. But I cannot find the good feeling I once had for it. Maybe down the road. IDK. I hope the magic returns.

Even though I can't really fault you for how you feel about it, there is one thing I can guarantee and that is that the magic will not come to you. If it has been 15 years since you last went, there has been a lot of changes since then. Some good and some bad, but you have to go to the magic, it will not come to you. It's still a great place, but has a few unattractive requirements now. However, even with that, there are many that enjoy the way it is now. You might do that as well, but you will never know until you stick your toe in the water and check the temperature.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Apple released products today that have a lot of 'firsts' for their hardware. Nothing interesting? I beg to differ.

However, I get what you mean when it comes to the fanatics. They will buy anything and then act like scorned lovers when things don't go exactly as they had imagined. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Many people blindly follow without understanding why. When they have little disposable income to be doing so, they eventually wake up in a rather bitter mood.

I think your post covers the whole Disney phenomenon...

“Altered reality” in many ways. Apple is a good comp today.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[bcoachable]

Angry...no. angry I'm not. Immorality, meanness, injustice make me angry. But TWDC is just a soulless, non-personal entity. Meanness, though, perhaps can be levied at TWDC management. Come to think of it, injustice too at the treatment of their employees.

Sad, despondent, yes. This no longer the Disney I used to love. Confused too - WDW is an object of love I imprinted on as a youngster. I feel no longer wanted as a guest, which in any other setting (except airlines) would mean my taking my business elsewhere immediately and without regret, but which leaves me feeling rejected and confused in the case of WDW.

What frustrates me is that they had me as a customer for life. And a good customer too. They brushed me aside for a few dollars more from a different audience they coveted slightly more.

Specifically: aiming WDW ever lower on the cultural ladder (FW's nerd wonderland into 'look kids...there's Moana!'), exhorbitant prices and endless upcharges (begone, second rate $130 ticket pauper), cost cutting, and reducing WDW too much from a creative product in its own right to a character vehicle (look kids, it's Moana!...at breakfast, at the ride, at the gondola, at the fireworks show, at dinner, on the bedsheet, at the other ride, at)

I can relate to your post:
My brand loyalty has rapidly diminished over the last few years- and the layoffs have just about severed the relationship... I know, I know- it’s a business. The current business model has me very turned off, and I was a kool aide drinking fool for a bunch of years.
On the other hand, my new hobby has me out riding mountain bikes- instead of standing in line for soarin... And yet somehow I’m spending about the same amount of money!

 

[_caleb]

Disney doesn’t act like it, but its fandom is really important to its business. Yeah, I know we don’t spend as much as normal guests might, but sometimes it seems like we’re more invested in what Disney is, was, and could be than Disney is.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Then you’re sold...and you’ve made your intentions known to them.

It isn’t such a binary choice. It’s not a) love Disney b) hate Disney

You can love Disney - as most of the board “skeptics” have over the years...and still have a productive stance.

It’s “I love Disney...but they still have a lot to prove. No guarantees”

I think that’s more than reasonable.

Yep, I am ashamed.

 

[virk4]

I would agree with your observations... Feels like a lot of the magic is slowly going away and the direction is more Amusement park and uninspiring hotels and architecture. I am a lifelong fan, sadly discouraged by a lot of their creative (or lack thereof) decisions...

ditto

 

[Djsfantasi]

Many respondents have cited the loss of cast members, the dependence on IP for attractions and the merchandization of the parks...

But the greatest change to me is the loss of quality. Attractions with broken details (Yeti anyone?), trash in the park, peeling paint and backstage workers visible in the park (trash workers emptying overflowing cans. At least theme the trucks removing trash and costume backstage workers!).

All of the above break the Disney magic, and reduce the experience to that if any boring theme park. Walt must be turning over in his grave.

 

[tl77]

The Bob's are both "money guys" and bringing stuff like Marvel and Lucasfilm/Star Wars into the Disney Co. "in theory" should broaden the appeal of The Disney Co. and make money... but when your Star Wars movies kinda suck, and you can't use your Marvel IP in your biggest Park? That "theory" doesn't work out so much.

When Eisner first took over, he made animation a priority because he said "it was the company's legacy". They need a CEO who understands that The Disney Company's Legacy revolves around the things "they've built" not the things "they buy"... but you need a creative person, not a money person, in charge. Someone who's motivation is to build something timeless, not to make money short term for their own quarterly earning and executive bonuses

 

[leonalvarado]

I don't want to be mad at the Disney Company, I really don't! They have provided such an escape for me especially during my tumultuous childhood. Won't go into details of that, but you could imagine the need for a positive outlook such as something simple as a Disney World commercial and how much that gave to a child going through something somewhat severe and traumatizing.

However, over the last few short years, their business decisions have left me and my previous love for the place in a lot of question. I get that things need to change over time as changes are needed and are a big part of life to keep things moving forward, as well as for a company and that company's future prospects.

[Please know that I am not looking at the place in Rose Colored glasses (if that is even the correct saying). I have seen and dealt with bad and have become quite observant to which is what at a logical standpoint...not exactly sure as to why I have to point this out, but there you go.]

But, the re-imagining to take out per se' the Disney creative side of things just to help with customer flow, increase in sales, ways to provide more merchandise, has slowly over time began to weigh heavily in the back of my mind.

I don't hate IPs, I don't hate re-imaginings but Disney how somehow been able to take the "Disney" out of Disney for me.

Please don't hate (too much) as this is totally personal opinion, but don't feel discouraged to comment.

How do you all feel with Disney World and the current direction it is heading?

I do not disagree with your assessment but it may be more than the parks thing. I have been going to Disney World and Disneyland since 1976. I honeymooned twice there and subsequently I have been there with my own kids many times. We spent the millennium celebrations in the Magic Kingdom. For about a decade we would go once a year for a five-day stay. As prices got higher the stays shortened but we have always enjoy going. Last time we were there was last winter when we got to go through the Galaxy's edge which still really cool. Back in 76 we spent ten days at the Contemporary resort. Back then ten days gave you more than enough time to do many things like riding the miniboats, taking all of the backstage tours they had, eat at all of the restaurants they had (back then there was only the Contemporary, the Polynesian and he Golf Resort plus Fort Wilderness campgrounds). With only the Magic Kingdom in existence the attention to detail was the norm. Later on within two weeks of Epcot opening two buddies of mine and myself took turns driving straight form Texas to WDW to see the new park. We even slept in the car on the parking lot of the Polynesian hotel. Being college kids, we hardly had the cost for the tickets and gas covered but the excitement was grand so we didn't mind the lack of accomodations. Needless to say, Disney has meant a lot to me and my family throughout the decades. But our latest trips have't felt the same despite having seen and experience very cool things like all of the Star Wars stuff. The food is not nearly as good as it used to be, even in their most expensive restaurants. That felt disappointing specially since food used to be one of the highlights for me. The service is not nearly as good nor are many of the cast members as nice as they used to be, (there are still some very nice ones but in the past it was almost a requirement to be extra nice). The upkeep of the park is not as good as it used to be neither. A scratched hand rail here and there, and just some wear and tear showing throughout the property. I know these things happen but I got to say that not in the Disney Parks of the past. Night crews used to come out and repaint whatever was scratched and change any broken light bulb etc. Of course they still do that but not with the same attention to detail as before. And I've seen scratched hand rails go unpainted throughout my five-night visit which in the past was never the case. Then there are the "charge for this and charge for that" policies that are going. Your car now pays a lot of money to sit outside on the lot of your hotel, something that was a given before. When the value hotels opened we would often go there as the prices for everything else escalated but last time we stayed in one of them it was absolutely horrible. There were roaches just about everyday in our room. There were loud obnoxious teenagers hanging out outside in the common areas yelling loudly way past midnight. Our room didn't feel as clean and neither did the bathroom. So in our last trip we stayed at the Wilderness Lodge but by then we only stayed two days and not five as the price was much higher. Even though the property still has room to grow, everything is starting to get over built and overcrowded and now they have so many tings to keep up with that it is starting to show how hard it is to maintain the Disney quality of old. Some rides are still cool but the new thing is to project things on to other things. Projections can help but when most of a ride is just a projection in disguise, it looses something. In my opinion anyways. I still enjoy the Haunted Mansion, the Pirates of the Caribbeans and the Jungle Cruise a whole lot and it's mostly because they are real objects and not just some movie projected on a dressed-up screen. Even It's a Small World looks fresher than ever because it is not some sort of fancied video presentation.

So I completely understand your feelings. I feel the same way, in the quest for stock value (which I even own some), the company seems to have forgotten their creative innovative ways and instead they are even copying others. Of course, it doesn't help that the entertaining market is overly saturated, kids today do not read or even communicate other than through twitter or instagram. Trying to instill wholesome values into children these days seems harder than ever. I just miss the feel we used to have going there in the good old days.

 

[annabanana]

I'm just gonna re-post this...

My faith in Disney has been dwindling since, I'd say, 2014 or 2016. Regardless, when I went to Disney World in 2017 and 2019, I still had a great time. And I was really looking forward to going again in July (we had to postpone due to this stupid pandemic). I still love roaming the parks and going on attractions like Test Track and Kilimanjaro Safaris. However, the Splash Mountain debacle has proven to me once and for all that Disney isn't the company that it once was.

I wanted to believe that Bob Iger was a nice guy. But I'm sorry, he (or at least the current, post-2013 Iger) is quite possibly the worst CEO in Disney history. Even worse than post-Disneyland Paris Eisner. Why? Well, for one thing, under Iger's control, Disney has become an incredibly cowardly company. They won't build attractions not based on IPs anymore because they think people don't like IP-less rides. They don't make hand-drawn movies anymore because the most recent hand-drawn movies (including the very movie that they suddenly did a 180 on because it fits their agenda) flopped, conveniently ignoring that maybe the reason they flopped is because they put them up against big blockbuster films like Harry Potter sequels and Avatar. They're terrified of taking risks. They gleefully greenlit things simply to cash in on the success of other things - Maleficent and Cinderella made a ton of money at the box office, greenlight MORE live action remakes of our animated films. The Jungle Book was a success, greenlight a "live action" remake of The Lion King directed by the same guy using the same technology. Hasbro makes a lot of money off that "Littlest Pet Shop" thing, make this a thing.

As it stands, the company is blah, bland, soulless, cowardly, and condescending. It doesn't care about its fans. All it cares about is its image and making money. But, so long as at least a large percentage of the things that I love about Disney World are still there, I'll still go and have a good time.

Don't think I'm crazy but Walt has 5 grandchildren and I wonder why none of them took over. His son-in-law who passed, did, I believe. As far as Eisner, when my now 40 year old daughter was around 10 years old, he was in the parks chatting with a member and he stood there looking around and she caught his eye and said with a smile, "Hi". He turned away and didn't even answer her even though he clearly saw she was talking to him, no more than 2 feet away at the most. We were all standing together! It was very disconcerting to us.

 

[Mousse']

You can like music that famous people make, but the musician could be a real jerk and make you think twice about what you are listening to. Does it mean you will stop liking the music they produce? Probably not.

So, yeah I do agree with the concept.

But everything that has happened in recent years with Disney, (not over 50 years ago, more like the past 10) have very much influenced my ideals towards the company. Recent events have been a defining moment and this for me personally makes me truly second guess where I put my money.

Incredibly good and poignant threads you've posted. I'm 100% in the same boat, as I see they've really lost they're way. Any firm can make money, and when they focus on that and only that lose the ability to make magic, as that is a different type of investment (long-term and a more intrinsic payoff... I'd say more profitable in the end but something you can claim on a quarterly stock report...).

BUT, I personally have to pause and really think about what I'm seeing. I'm getting older and I really have to wonder if all the changes we're all seeing (From Disney, to government, to manners and general consideration for others, to different peoples' feelings on the pandemic, etc...) are really all intertwined. Is humanity changing and Disney is ahead of that general realization? Is civilization in a monumental turning-point, a' la the decline of Roman Empire or evolving like the Renaissance?

Regardless on my silly soapbox, old-man hypothesizing, I wish we could go back to 2002 when the world seemed to be a better place and happier place, my wife and I still loved Disney, we bought into the Beach Club for I think like $40 a point after all the incentives, and everything just seemed to make sense.

 

[EngineerMom]

So I'm going to start with the layoffs - they are so sad. My heart goes out to the folks who were laid off. I have been laid off twice and it is a horrible feeling. Do I think Disney could also do something like lower exec's salaries even temporarily. But I don't think that would have prevented the layoffs. With parks and other activities closed I don't see how they had a choice. It is my understanding that they continued to support health insurance for furloughed employs since they closed the parks until the layoffs. That was decent. With things not fully opened I don't see how they could not have layoffs. At some point it is a business decision.

In terms of the magic. Well I started going as a kid and LOVED it. When I was still going as a teen our parents used to let us go over to the magic kingdom at night on our own. I LOVED how uncrowded the park was and how magical at night. I still get that feeling when it doesn't feel crowded. Went with friends in college and we had so much fun.

Then I didn't go for years until we had kids. We went when they were 4 for the first time. It was MAGICAL because they believed everything. It was magical in a different way for me. We didn't do everything in the first trip such as eating in the castle so when we did that in a later trip that was a special treat. We have gone multiple times over the years. Just our family, with friends, with grandparents. Each trip has it's own experiences. It looses some of it's magic because you go so often that you can't capture say that first ride on Soarin and how great it felt. But now since we have done so much when we go we feel less pressure to "do everything". We walk around Epcot relaxed and taking it all in, etc.

I hate how expensive the tickets have gotten but then I really hate the crowds so if Disney was cheaper wouldn't that mean even more crowds? So I am torn.

 

[_caleb]

There's SO MUCH I could say in response here. I'll just say, that the magic has faded. When a FANTASYLAND getaway bows to the will of a Socialist PC gang, and intends to change their rides as a result, then you have just dragged the REAL world into the FANTASY getaway. Magic gone. I haven't been inside the Parks since 2005. For many reasons. And I NOW live in SoFlo. Just a little more than 3 hours away from WDW. But I cannot find the good feeling I once had for it. Maybe down the road. IDK. I hope the magic returns.

Shouldn't a trip to Disney World be equally free from the ugliness of the real world for everyone?

 

[_caleb]

Incredibly good and poignant threads you've posted. I'm 100% in the same boat, as I see they've really lost they're way. Any firm can make money, and when they focus on that and only that lose the ability to make magic, as that is a different type of investment (long-term and a more intrinsic payoff... I'd say more profitable in the end but something you can claim on a quarterly stock report...).

BUT, I personally have to pause and really think about what I'm seeing. I'm getting older and I really have to wonder if all the changes we're all seeing (From Disney, to government, to manners and general consideration for others, to different peoples' feelings on the pandemic, etc...) are really all intertwined. Is humanity changing and Disney is ahead of that general realization? Is civilization in a monumental turning-point, a' la the decline of Roman Empire or evolving like the Renaissance?

Regardless on my silly soapbox, old-man hypothesizing, I wish we could go back to 2002 when the world seemed to be a better place and happier place, my wife and I still loved Disney, we bought into the Beach Club for I think like $40 a point after all the incentives, and everything just seemed to make sense.

Yes, major societal change has happened and is happening. Many of the members who post here are just starting to realize it because they've built lives for themselves that are isolated from the rest of the world. It isn't until changes come to Disney World that they are finally confronted with those changes. And because they've been so isolated, they interpret the changes as assaults on personal freedom, threats to their way of life, or the fall of civilization.

 

[Fullspecs]

My first post... I think?
To be honest as an adult I'm not in the same position to say if changes have messed up the magic. My daughter still feels the magic, still believes the magic and she's ten yrs. old. The magic for me was formed when I was her age, when I returned as an adult for my honeymoon, both my wife and I felt the magic and got hooked. However, since 2006ish the crowds have reached a point where it's unbearable and the prices are a flat-out robbery. The magic for me was, for lack of a better word, stolen by a mouse who likes to pickpockets! I'm sure the magic could return for me if the capacity issues could be properly addressed and the prices for the parks and hotels could be brought down from the heavens.
I think there's also a slight problem where my body just can't hang with the pace that is needed at the parks nowadays. Touring is so exhausting and you are always trying to maximize every dollar you're spending.

 

[PostScott]

The thing that saddens me is that Disney has grown massively during the Iger era. It's been a successfully proven business model, and in the eyes of the executives and stockholders, there is nothing wrong with it. They make all the decisions, so if you want to sway them then do so with your wallets. I know that probably won't happen though. The company has become a worldwide brand and almost a lifestyle. The bigger they get, the more people will hear about it. The more people hear about it, the more they will go to the parks. More people in parks=more money. I'm sorry but businesses are swayed on money and Disney is no exception. I mean I love some of the stuff the company is doing in terms of the parks division. However nothing will change unless the majority of people choose to spend somewhere else or spend not at all.