Do you think the Murdochs will want 20th Century Studios back?

[Elijah Abrams]

It has been reported that Rupert Murdoch wants to recombine his two companies, Fox Corp. and News Corp. after 9 years. Do you think he and his family will want to take 20th Century Studios back from Disney as well?

 

[Disney Irish]

It has been reported that Rupert Murdoch wants to recombine his two companies, Fox Corp. and News Corp. after 9 years. Do you think he and his family will want to take 20th Century Studios back from Disney as well?

The whole point of the split back in 2013 was to split the entertainment piece, ie 20th Century Fox which became 21st Century Fox (21CF) and was then sold to Disney, from the print media which became News Corp. So no they won't "take back" 20th Century from Disney. Not that Disney would sell it back anyways as they own it.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

Not that Disney would sell it back anyways as they own it.

Just because you own something doesn't mean you permanently own it. It can be bought or sold off. If they did sell off 20th Century, Disney could at least own the rights to Ice Age, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Night at the Museum, and the 20th Century-produced Marvel films, since the former three have Disney+-exclusive films.

 

[danlb_2000]

Just because you own something doesn't mean you permanently own it. It can be taken or sold off. If they did sell off 20th Century, Disney could at least own the rights to Ice Age, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Night at the Museum, and the 20th Century-produced Marvel films, since the former three have Disney+-exclusive films.

It's can't be taken, Disney has to be willing to sell.

 

[Disney Irish]

Just because you own something doesn't mean you permanently own it. It can be taken or sold off. If they did sell off 20th Century, Disney could at least own the rights to Ice Age, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Night at the Museum, and the 20th Century-produced Marvel films, since the former three have Disney+-exclusive films.

This isn't like dad coming and taking a car back because Jr didn't do his homework.

Disney bought 21CF for 71 Billion dollars. They own it. Period. So no it can't be "taken". They have to be willing to sell it in order for there to be another owner. And I'm pretty sure they aren't willing to sell it any time soon.

Also if they did sell then rights for streaming those movies, unless a deal already exists, revert to the "new" owner. The streaming rights situation is very tricky and not always clear to the public. You could have a movie that is produced and owned by one studio but because of streaming rights are not available on that studios own streaming service. This is exactly what happened when Disney bought 21CF, any movie that had their streaming rights owned by another studio couldn't just automatically show up on Disney+/Hulu. That is why you still see some 20th Century movies on streaming services like Netflix and HBO Max and not on D+/Hulu even now 3 years after Disney bought 21CF.

 

[Prince-1]

Just because you own something doesn't mean you permanently own it. It can be taken or sold off. If they did sell off 20th Century, Disney could at least own the rights to Ice Age, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Night at the Museum, and the 20th Century-produced Marvel films, since the former three have Disney+-exclusive films.

You do know that it just can’t be taken?? I mean this doesn’t make any sense at all.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

You do know that it just can’t be taken?? I mean this doesn’t make any sense at all.

My bad. I corrected my statement.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

And I'm pretty sure they aren't willing to sell it any time soon.

Well, what if Bob Chapek, the Disney CEO, wasn’t interested, unlike Bob Iger, in having what was once 20th Century Fox and its franchises? Would he want to sell it to somebody else?

 

[Disney Irish]

Well, what if Bob Chapek, the Disney CEO, wasn’t interested, unlike Bob Iger, in having what was once 20th Century Fox and its franchises? Would he want to sell it to somebody else?

He can't just do it on his own, despite being the CEO he still has bosses too. There is the Board of Directors, and the shareholders, both groups would have to approve it and I don't think either group would. Because it was both groups that had to approve the merger of Disney and 21CF in the first place.

Not only that but it wouldn't make business sense. Disney would instantly lose half its value right off the bat due to losing all the IP that was under the 20th Century banner. And then the stock would take a huge hit due to investors losing confidence that Disney couldn't win but also not even compete in the Streaming Wars against Netflix.

So no it wouldn't make sense for Disney to sell 20th Century to anyone, let alone Murdoch again.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

Disney would instantly lose half its value right off the bat due to losing all the IP that was under the 20th Century banner.

They could find new IP to replace the ones they lost.

If Disney ends up losing IP they acquired, they could always buy new ones. Here’s a strategic idea I came up with, even if it is complex:

• Disney buys half of Sony Pictures Entertainment (the Columbia Pictures, TriStar Pictures, and Sony Pictures Television units).
• Sony buys 20th Century Studios, Searchlight Pictures, and 20th Television from Disney, as well as Fox Corp. from the Murdoch family.
• A restructuring occurs at Sony Pictures, with SPE, 20th Century, and Fox Corp. merging. One of the results would be the return of 20th Century Fox.
• Sony moves their film and TV operations to the Fox lot in Century City, CA, while they sell their Culver City lot to someone else (my choice would be Amazon, since they now own MGM).
• Disney+ still keeps the 20th Century Fox/Studios films and TV shows as part of a pact with Sony/TCF, and also adds the Columbia/TriStar films/shows.
• Columbia becomes Disney’s new adult-oriented label, and TriStar their indie label.
• Screen Gems is entirely folded into TCF, Sony Pictures Classics is folded into Fox Searchlight Pictures, and the production units of Sony Pictures Television become part of 20th Century Fox Television.
• Sony Pictures Imageworks is renamed to Sony Imageworks and Sony Pictures Animation is restructured as Fox Feature Animation.
• Disney would still keep FX Networks.

 

[Disney Irish]

They could find new IP to replace the ones they lost.

If Disney ends up losing IP they acquired, they could always buy new ones. Here’s a strategic idea I came up with, even if it is complex:

• Disney buys half of Sony Pictures Entertainment (the Columbia Pictures, TriStar Pictures, and Sony Pictures Television units).
• Sony buys 20th Century Studios, Searchlight Pictures, and 20th Television from Disney, as well as Fox Corp. from the Murdoch family.
• A restructuring occurs at Sony Pictures, with SPE, 20th Century, and Fox Corp. merging. One of the results would be the return of 20th Century Fox.
• Sony moves their film and TV operations to the Fox lot in Century City, CA, while they sell their Culver City lot to someone else (my choice would be Amazon, since they now own MGM).
• Disney+ still keeps the 20th Century Fox/Studios films and TV shows as part of a pact with Sony/TCF, and also adds the Columbia/TriStar films/shows.
• Columbia becomes Disney’s new adult-oriented label, and TriStar their indie label.
• Screen Gems is entirely folded into TCF, Sony Pictures Classics is folded into Fox Searchlight Pictures, and the production units of Sony Pictures Television become part of 20th Century Fox Television.
• Sony Pictures Imageworks is renamed to Sony Imageworks and Sony Pictures Animation is restructured as Fox Feature Animation.
• Disney would still keep FX Networks.

Well an interesting thought experiment, just couple issues I see right off the bat with this scenario:

1. Why would Disney get rid of 20th Century which they own all pieces of just to replace it with only a part Sony Pictures. I mean wouldn't it make more sense for Disney to own all of Sony Pictures if it were getting rid of a whole asset like 20th Century?
2. If Sony was to get rid of Sony Pictures it would be because they are getting out of the studio business completely. Meaning they wouldn't replace it with another studio. So that right there makes the rest of it moot.
3. Why would Disney want to get rid of any of its IP in the first place, in the Streaming Wars content is king, meaning the more IP you have the more likely a consumer is to view that IP on your platform. So Disney here wouldn't get rid of IP at all.
4. Disney already has an adult-oriented label in 20th Century (and even the old labels of Touchstone and Hollywood Pictures if they wanted to revive them), so why would Disney even need Columbia for that. Also they have Searchlight Pictures for indie films, they don't need TriStar.

Basically I don't see any benefit here to Disney in this scenario. However if Sony were to ever get rid of Sony Pictures there were some rumors that Disney could potentially buy it completely. So at least part of your scenario could come true in the future.

 

[Indy_UK]

Do we have any signs that the purchase of 20th Century was worthwhile for Disney?

I feel that they have related less movies since the purchase but they have been of better quality?

 

[Disney Irish]

Do we have any signs that the purchase of 20th Century was worthwhile for Disney?

I feel that they have related less movies since the purchase but they have been of better quality?

It depends on your perspective, and if you're just talking about only 20th Century Studios.

Just a couple things off the top of my head about 20th Century Studios:

1. Getting back the rights to the Fox Marvel characters like X-Men and Fantastic Four.
2. Getting back the fully rights to the Fox owned Star Wars films.
3. All the other IP that 20th Century owned.

I mean we're only 3 years into the 21CF acquisition, so its going to take a bit of time before 20th Century Studios full worth is realized. But add to that the rest of the acquisition such as getting controlling share of Hulu (of which they will buy the remain piece from Comcast in 2024 owning it wholly) and getting ownership of HotStar (making Disney the largest entertainment provider in India). And just with what I mentioned alone makes the 21CF acquisition and thus 20th Century Studios worth it in my opinion.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

Well an interesting thought experiment, just couple issues I see right off the bat with this scenario:

1. Why would Disney get rid of 20th Century which they own all pieces of just to replace it with only a part Sony Pictures. I mean wouldn't it make more sense for Disney to own all of Sony Pictures if it were getting rid of a whole asset like 20th Century?
2. If Sony was to get rid of Sony Pictures it would be because they are getting out of the studio business completely. Meaning they wouldn't replace it with another studio. So that right there makes the rest of it moot.
3. Why would Disney want to get rid of any of its IP in the first place, in the Streaming Wars content is king, meaning the more IP you have the more likely a consumer is to view that IP on your platform. So Disney here wouldn't get rid of IP at all.
4. Disney already has an adult-oriented label in 20th Century (and even the old labels of Touchstone and Hollywood Pictures if they wanted to revive them), so why would Disney even need Columbia for that. Also they have Searchlight Pictures for indie films, they don't need TriStar.

Basically I don't see any benefit here to Disney in this scenario. However if Sony were to ever get rid of Sony Pictures there were some rumors that Disney could potentially buy it completely. So at least part of your scenario could come true in the future.

Maybe Sony could get tired of their current film unit (Columbia TriStar) one day and want to change it up? Also, if Sony got rid of all their film/TV unit, then they would lose ownership of stuff like Silvergate, Imageworks, and their anime units like Crunchyroll, Aniplex, and Animax to Disney.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

I mean we're only 3 years into the 21CF acquisition, so its going to take a bit of time before 20th Century Studios full worth is realized.

Yes, but don’t forget there could be changes in who is CEO that would determine what happens with the future of unit ownership.

 

[Disney Irish]

Maybe Sony could get tired of their current film unit (Columbia TriStar) one day and want to change it up? Also, if Sony got rid of all their film/TV unit, then they would lose ownership of stuff like Silvergate, Imageworks, and their anime units like Crunchyroll, Aniplex, and Animax to Disney.

Again why would Sony want to "change it up" by owning a different studio? If they don't like the current direction of Sony Pictures they can change direction of that unit rather than get a new studio. Basically it would be bad business and would be disruptive in a bad way, so much so that shareholders would likely revolt and force out leadership. So likely not going to happen.

Also as said before Sony has been rumored to be wanting to get out of the Studio business completely. Meaning they would want to sell of all Sony Pictures and focus just on electronics, and yes that means likely losing the other anime units as well.

Yes, but don’t forget there could be changes in who is CEO that would determine what happens with the future of unit ownership.

Even if there is a change in leadership the likelihood they would completely sell off the assets of 20th Century is pretty slim. Its more valuable to Disney for the IP alone then it is to sell off.

So I'm beginning to get the idea that you aren't really understanding business as a whole.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

Then how about this: Sony buys 20th Century and its IP, then Disney acquires all of Sony Pictures' IP (except for the Japanese ones), allowing Disney to resurrect Columbia Pictures and TriStar Pictures as their non-family/Marvel/Lucasfilm units (standard for Columbia, indie/art house for TriStar), although they could use different names.

 

[Disney Irish]

Then how about this: Sony buys 20th Century and its IP, then Disney acquires all of Sony Pictures' IP (except for the Japanese ones), allowing Disney to resurrect Columbia Pictures and TriStar Pictures as their non-family/Marvel/Lucasfilm units (standard for Columbia, indie/art house for TriStar), although they could use different names.

I mean sure anything is possible. I still don't think it would happen.

Question, why do you want Disney to get rid of 20th Century Studios and swap it with Sony Pictures?

 

[Elijah Abrams]

Question, why do you want Disney to get rid of 20th Century Studios and swap it with Sony Pictures?

Because 20th Century Fox was one of my favorite film studios, even during my childhood. They were also one of the few remaining "Big 5" major film studios of Hollywood’s Golden Age (alongside MGM, WB, Paramount, and RKO). I even got to go on their lot twice. Before they got cancelled by Disney, TCF had some animated features planned that were interesting to me, like Nimona (good thing Netflix and Annapurna revived it), Mouse Guard, The Witch Boy, and The Dam Keeper. Sony Pictures, on the other hand, is descended from Columbia Pictures, which was one of the "Little 3" major studios of the Golden Age, alongside Universal and United Artists. Unlike the "Big 5", the "Little 3" did not owl a lot of movie theaters, and had to rely on "Mom-and-Pop" theatres instead. With the films I mentioned, TCF could’ve brought a brought a fresh air to feature animation. At least Sony Pictures Animation is doing just that with "Into the Spider-Verse".

 

[Disney Irish]

Because 20th Century Fox was one of my favorite film studios, even during my childhood. They were also one of the few remaining "Big 5" major film studios of Hollywood’s Golden Age (alongside MGM, WB, Paramount, and RKO). I even got to go on their lot twice. Before they got cancelled by Disney, TCF had some animated features planned that were interesting to me, like Nimona (good thing Netflix and Annapurna revived it), Mouse Guard, The Witch Boy, and The Dam Keeper. Sony Pictures, on the other hand, is descended from Columbia Pictures, which was one of the "Little 3" major studios of the Golden Age, alongside Universal and United Artists. Unlike the "Big 5", the "Little 3" did not owl a lot of movie theaters, and had to rely on "Mom-and-Pop" theatres instead. With the films I mentioned, TCF could’ve brought a brought a fresh air to feature animation. At least Sony Pictures Animation is doing just that with "Into the Spider-Verse".

And what makes you think Sony would do any better with 20th Century? It’s not like they’ve done anything substantial with Sony Pictures/Columbia outside of Spider-Man. There’s a reason why Sony Corp has been looking to divest itself of the studio business completely.

Bottom line don’t expect Disney to get rid of 20th Century, or even trade it for another studio.