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fctiger

Well-Known Member
I'm looking at the availability calendar and it's quite obvious the ticket buying has become flat in August. You can basically buy a 1 day or PH on the day now no problem. Next month these parks would probably be pretty dead as kids head back to school.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
If this were true why would every amusement park in the world offers some type of annual pass?

All the financial experts running the parks seem to disagree with you. As a guest I hate lines too but for the park owners lines = dollar signs.

The reality is APs are vital to amusement parks success, without them most theme parks would see their attendance and revenue plummet. Whether people like them or not, or they make the parks more or less enjoyable, is irrelevant because they aren’t going anywhere.

I been to about 30 theme parks worldwide, mostly in America and Asia. And every single one of them sell APs. It doesn't matter how big, popular and known the parks are. If they are opened all year, they sell APs.

Same time if ANY of these parks can survive or make more money without them, they probably wouldn't have them either. That includes all the Disney parks. It's been at DL for 40 years and it will easily be there another 40, especially when your competition are all selling them and at much lower discounted prices.
 

dovetail65

Well-Known Member
Well I was referring to their most expensive ticket, a tier 5 ticket which is $154 on the busiest days. And in the summer, $104 tickets are pretty rare, usually on Mon-Wed. Looking at the calendar the only days for that in August is only 3-4 days and again on the weekday. Everything else is $114 and above. On Saturday and Sundays the tickets are between $139-154. And yes those are usually the only days I can visit most of the time.

But of course every one is different. If you feel the passes aren't that bad, that's great. I just personally think they've gone crazy with it. AND, again, what's funny is not once did you mention DCA lol. That's also $154 on the busiest days. Do you think that is worth it too? Very curious on your answer with that. If so, great, but I think seeing how less and less the one day passes are selling now, the hardcore had their fill and it's going to be harder to move those passes, hence another reason the APs are coming back.
DAC or any type of a paid FP is a complete outrage and another topic , I was talking entrance fees, that is it.


They make and will make billions. $15 an hour isn't going to break anyone.
Well no you are right because they will just add it to the cost of the entrance fees or other charges. When cost go up no matter where the expenses come from the business must do one of two things, take less of a profit, two, increase end pricing. What will Disney do, take less of a profit just because they are making billions? Historically that is not what Disney does.

I hope you are right, my wife hopes to get a retiree job there in a few years. 15 an hour is double what she thought she would make for fun money after retirement and if Disney pricing does not go up exponentially(something I do expect) it is more time we can spend there.

The 15 an hour issue I should not of even mentioned, it's another thread topic entirely.
 
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dovetail65

Well-Known Member
I'm looking at the availability calendar and it's quite obvious the ticket buying has become flat in August. You can basically buy a 1 day or PH on the day now no problem. Next month these parks would probably be pretty dead as kids head back to school.
I have been able to get any day I want for the last 6 weeks other than October 1 and few days at certain parks around that week. I do not see reservations being an issue to someone wanting to go 365 days a year if they wanted, especially if Disney is at 100% capacity entrance availability. If Disney is not at full capacity now where I can get any day I want there is very little chance a person could not get at least one park the very next day other than special events we know far in advance unless they clamp down on how many people are coming in(a real concern in the near future if we see what happened last fall and winter with Covid).
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
DAC or any type of a paid FP is a complete outrage and another topic , I was talking entrance fees, that is it.
LOL I'm talking about DCA: Disney California Adventure and it's entrance charge. I'm asking is that park worth the same price to get into as Disneyland? Because, per usual, everyone mentions DL but DCA is always completely left out of the conversation although its now 20 years old and right next door. I'm not sure what DAC is suppose to be and I'm not talking about the FP system either (but I too think it will probably be a pay system of some kind now).
 

dovetail65

Well-Known Member
LOL I'm talking about DCA: Disney California Adventure and it's entrance charge. I'm asking is that park worth the same price to get into as Disneyland? Because, per usual, everyone mentions DL but DCA is always completely left out of the conversation although its now 20 years old and right next door. I'm not sure what DAC is suppose to be and I'm not talking about the FP system either (but I too think it will probably be a pay system of some kind now).
I got yeah,Disney California Adventure never did much for me, my kids liked it when they were little I guess.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
I have been able to get any day I want for the last 6 weeks other than October 1 and few days at certain parks around that week. I do not see reservations being an issue to someone wanting to go 365 days a year if they wanted, especially if Disney is at 100% capacity entrance availability. If Disney is not at full capacity now where I can get any day I want there is very little chance a person could not get at least one park the very next day other than special events we know far in advance unless they clamp down on how many people are coming in(a real concern in the near future if we see what happened last fall and winter with Covid).

I agree as well although it's probably more like 95% to get into DL ASSUMING capacity is back up to 100% which it doesn't sound like it is yet. But the park definitely hits capacity in the highest peaks, mostly in some of the summer and winter seasons. And yes usually it's always DL. Even with the busiest times of year I don't think DCA has ever reached real capacity (where they shut the gates) outside of maybe a handful of times; although I was there for one of them and that was during the 24 hour event to kick off DL's 60th birthday. That entire resort was a complete zoo lol.

But yeah, if people just want to go to any of the parks in normal times it was never hard to do. Now maybe Disney will restrict attendance in a stronger way for the rest of the year but considering none of the passes are no longer selling out in the middle of summer I just don't think it's going to be a big issue for APs for awhile. But I guess we'll see.

But some people were predicting DL was going to be sold out for probably the rest of this year. They really thought that the park being closed for so long it was going to create such a huge demand for months when in reality it lasted for about 6 weeks and that was with much lower capacity. But this what happens when you're in the Disney bubble, you assume many others are in the same bubble. ;) People do love DL, but they also love other things and there are plenty of other stuff people wanted to do when things opened up again...and cheaper options at that.

It was sold out the first six weeks but as they raised capacity and after the hardcore got their chance to go back it naturally tapered off, just sooner than a lot of people thought. Maybe even Disney themselves.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
I got yeah,Disney California Adventure never did much for me, my kids liked it when they were little I guess.

And that's my point. People still treat DLR as if Disneyland is the only park which as a consumer is fine of course. But for Disney themselves they treat DCA completely equal to DL and that also includes its price. They have to find ways to get people in that park just like they do DL. And since for some reason they are not interested in discounting the park directly then it has to be through APs or PHs.

I've had these conversations dozens of time through the years and it's always funny how DCA is completely left out again and again which is a huge factor of why APs even exist just like they do at WDW. It's no way people are going to buy $100+ to go to Animal Kingdom or Hollywood Studios on a regular basis either. Sure some and they both have a lot of good (and popular) E-ticket attractions. But like DCA, it's just not enough yet to justify the day price.

In all reality DCA should be priced at least $30 lower than DL. But anything over $100 is probably a psychological dead stop for most. And I grown to love the park but I can barely justify paying what we pay to go to DL, it's out of the realm of reality for me when it comes to DCA.
 

dovetail65

Well-Known Member
And that's my point. People still treat DLR as if Disneyland is the only park which as a consumer is fine of course. But for Disney themselves they treat DCA completely equal to DL and that also includes its price. They have to find ways to get people in that park just like they do DL. And since for some reason they are not interested in discounting the park directly then it has to be through APs or PHs.

I've had these conversations dozens of time through the years and it's always funny how DCA is completely left out again and again which is a huge factor of why APs even exist just like they do at WDW. It's no way people are going to buy $100+ to go to Animal Kingdom or Hollywood Studios on a regular basis either. Sure some and they both have a lot of good (and popular) E-ticket attractions. But like DCA, it's just not enough yet to justify the day price.

In all reality DCA should be priced at least $30 lower than DL. But anything over $100 is probably a psychological dead stop for most. And I grown to love the park but I can barely justify paying what we pay to go to DL, it's out of the realm of reality for me when it comes to DCA.
I think you are saying Disney California Adventure(I needs to stop using abbreviations for some things or I get confused as you know) probably should use more of a Six Flags Type fee, but get away with charging more byu relying on the Disney brand and Disneyland. It makes sense to me.

I will say one thing, I would pay more money for AK., it is my favorite park over MK. So maybe there are some like me that like Disney California Adventure more like I do AK. I am sure it is a large minority though. .
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
I think you are saying Disney California Adventure(I needs to stop using abbreviations for some things or I get confused as you know) probably should use more of a Six Flags Type fee, but get away with charging more byu relying on the Disney brand and Disneyland. It makes sense to me.

I will say one thing, I would pay more money for AK., it is my favorite park over MK. So maybe there are some like me that like Disney California Adventure more like I do AK. I am sure it is a large minority though. .

Yes DCA is what we call California Adventure around here and other places.

And I don't think it should be priced as low as Magic Mountain tickets which are MUCH lower I just went and checked and their highest tickets around $65.00 which is a REASONABLE price for something like MM. However I don't think DCA could survive on something that low all year round for that low. But yes probably in the $80 range would be a fair deal but that's never going to happen obviously.

And sure I know plenty of people prefer parks like DAK over MK, but clearly it's not that many of them and why the park close much earlier than all the rest. And frankly it's still not a ton to do. But I love DAK too and in fact going back to WDW in a few weeks after not being there over a decade and very excited to go back to DAK. That was actually the park that got me to go to WDW in the first place back in 1998.
 

J4546

Well-Known Member
at this point, DCA is a solid sister park to DL but it is not an all day park like DL. It needs more rides, and hopefully when they do the phase 2 of AC, and the hollywoodland/eastern gateway expansion, it will be a more complete park.

Still I like the park a lot, has great atmosphere and almost everything is exclusive to CA. Cars Land, Pixar Pier, the Soaring/Grizzly Rapids area, the Wine Tasting terrace, Marina area with bread and chocolate samples...lots of good stuff in CA. And the few rides it has are pretty good. Grizzly River Rapids is great (i love river rapids rides) Radiator Spring Racers is great, GotG, Soarin, Incredicoaster, Little Mermaid, Spiderman....those are the rides I try to get on when I go to CA.
 

MK-fan

Active Member
Does anybody else feel that making reservations out for 4 months is too far out? When I had flex pass, you could only reserve 30 days out and even then, weekends would be fully reserved a lot of the time.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
Speak of the devil, another interesting point why the new APs may be coming sooner than people thought:



Two things to take away from what is being said in that video (assuming its all true).

1. Disneyland capacity at the moment is only 40%.
2. The new AP program was originally suppose to start at the end of the year.

The 40% limit surprised me but then it shouldn't because none of the parks are operating at full capacity yet and most been open for a full year now, including WDW. It LOOKS busier but in reality the park is still very understaffed as well. But if thats true and its only operating at 40% then that speaks volumes when tickets are not only easy to get but they have a discount ticket for locals as well.

As far as number 2, the Disney President did say they were going to announce the passes at the end of the year and August is not the end of the year lol. I think they truly thought that attendance would be in MUCH higher demand and probably assumed even when September came around they could coast on the Halloween parties and not even those are selling out fast.

Dave makes the case this just comes down to former APs who have resisted coming back which I do think is part of the issue. I also just think it has to do with a lot of people still not being able to travel as freely and yes the Delta variant has kept people more away, none that he mentioned. But sure the BIGGEST group are probably just locals who refuse to pay for the day passes. And I know one of them. She's had a pass since 1989 and used to go monthly. Now she completely refuse to go until the APs comes back and she lives 20 minutes away. I imagine a lot of those are just sticking it out. And if you haven't gone to the park in over a year, what's a few more months on top of that if it means you can go more regularly for a much lower price again?

The video talks a lot about the reservation system possibly ending if enough APers decide not to buy more of the passes but I do think Disney is going to stick to its guns on that, at least for a year. But none of this is cut and dry. It's proof that its going to take a looooong time before real normalcy set in these parks for awhile.
 
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fctiger

Well-Known Member
at this point, DCA is a solid sister park to DL but it is not an all day park like DL. It needs more rides, and hopefully when they do the phase 2 of AC, and the hollywoodland/eastern gateway expansion, it will be a more complete park.

Still I like the park a lot, has great atmosphere and almost everything is exclusive to CA. Cars Land, Pixar Pier, the Soaring/Grizzly Rapids area, the Wine Tasting terrace, Marina area with bread and chocolate samples...lots of good stuff in CA. And the few rides it has are pretty good. Grizzly River Rapids is great (i love river rapids rides) Radiator Spring Racers is great, GotG, Soarin, Incredicoaster, Little Mermaid, Spiderman....those are the rides I try to get on when I go to CA.

Agreed. I have really gotten to love DCA over the last decade or so. I don't think it has an image problem AS MUCH like it did in the past. More people definitely go to the park now, that can't be denied. It simply has a value problem more than anything. Because for the most part, people seem to generally like what is there now. No one is getting in an 60+ minute line for stuff like Soarin, GOTG, TSM, RSR and etc if they didn't really like these rides. But for most people, DCA is still a half day park. You could hit every major ride on the busiest days and still pretty much do everything in 5-6 hours, especially if you go early in the morning. And when FPs were around, it was a breeze.

And of course what at least kept people there longer were night time shows like WOC. I mean thats why it was created, to give people more to do but also just to keep them around longer. Now that there is NO night time things in the park (at least DL has the fireworks again) its still less of a value and one of the things that kept the masses around. Thankfully there is Avenger's Campus and a new ride on top of it, but once every gets their fill of that I expect attendance to drop hard again. I'm really shocked they haven't done any night time show there.

When you're charging people $100+ to enter these parks, you have to really make it worth their while and DCA just doesn't.
 

Tamandua

Well-Known Member
Speak of the devil, another interesting point why the new APs may be coming sooner than people thought:



Two things to take away from what is being said in that video (assuming its all true).

1. Disneyland capacity at the moment is only 40%.
2. The new AP program was originally suppose to start at the end of the year.

The 40% limit surprised me but then it shouldn't because none of the parks are operating at full capacity yet and most been open for a full year now, including WDW. It LOOKS busier but in reality the park is still very understaffed as well. But if thats true and its only operating at 40% then that speaks volumes when tickets are not only easy to get but they have a discount ticket for locals as well.

As far as number 2, the Disney President did say they were going to announce the passes at the end of the year and August is not the end of the year lol. I think they truly thought that attendance would be in MUCH higher demand and probably assumed even when September came around they could coast on the Halloween parties and not even those are selling out fast.

Dave makes the case this just comes down to former APs who have resisted coming back which I do think is part of the issue. I also just think it has to do with a lot of people still not being able to travel as freely and yes the Delta variant has kept people more away, none that he mentioned. But sure the BIGGEST group are probably just locals who refuse to pay for the day passes. And I know one of them. She's had a pass since 1989 and used to go monthly. Now she completely refuse to go until the APs comes back and she lives 20 minutes away. I imagine a lot of those are just sticking it out. And if you haven't gone to the park in over a year, what's a few more months on top of that if it means you can go more regularly for a much lower price again?

The video talks a lot about the reservation system possibly ending if enough APers decide not to buy more of the passes but I do think Disney is going to stick to its guns on that, at least for a year. But none of this is cut and dry. It's proof that its going to take a looooong time before real normalcy set in these parks for awhile.

You have to remember that this guy's job is to make videos about Disneyland and the more incredible the claim in the title, the more likely people will watch it and net him ad revenue. He doesn't know any more than anyone else, and it wasn't long ago that his big breaking news was rumors of APs returning in JANUARY. He also made a video shortly before Disney started requiring masks again saying he didn't think masks were coming back. He's also predicting more lockdowns/shutdowns if the governor is not recalled, so... The guy is all over the place.

There's plenty of reasons why people might not be coming:

Health concerns
Masks
Reservations
Lack of dining options
Lack of entertainment
No Fastpass
Boarding group headaches
No trams
No character meet and greets
People waiting for APs
People got used to not going during the closure
Former regulars moved away
Lower standards in regard to maintenance and the Disney look
Disinterest in retooled classic rides
Competition from other parks that have offered passes during this reopening period
Many people have gone and done everything in a single visit and don't feel the need to return until there's more to see and do.

I'm not sure if just getting rid of reservations would make much of a difference when there are so many reasons for the much touted "pent up demand" to have fizzled out so quickly. What they really need to do is to get back to 100% pre-pandemic operations. If they can do that, the guests will come. There was so much talk about reopening Disneyland as being a sign of a return to normality. People don't want to go there and be reminded that this nightmare is still ongoing. They want to go and feel like things are back to normal. No more half measures.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
You have to remember that this guy's job is to make videos about Disneyland and the more incredible the claim in the title, the more likely people will watch it and net him ad revenue. He doesn't know any more than anyone else, and it wasn't long ago that his big breaking news was rumors of APs returning in JANUARY. He also made a video shortly before Disney started requiring masks again saying he didn't think masks were coming back. He's also predicting more lockdowns/shutdowns if the governor is not recalled, so... The guy is all over the place.

There's plenty of reasons why people might not be coming:

Health concerns
Masks
Reservations
Lack of dining options
Lack of entertainment
No Fastpass
Boarding group headaches
No trams
No character meet and greets
People waiting for APs
People got used to not going during the closure
Former regulars moved away
Lower standards in regard to maintenance and the Disney look
Disinterest in retooled classic rides
Competition from other parks that have offered passes during this reopening period
Many people have gone and done everything in a single visit and don't feel the need to return until there's more to see and do.

I'm not sure if just getting rid of reservations would make much of a difference when there are so many reasons for the much touted "pent up demand" to have fizzled out so quickly. What they really need to do is to get back to 100% pre-pandemic operations. If they can do that, the guests will come. There was so much talk about reopening Disneyland as being a sign of a return to normality. People don't want to go there and be reminded that this nightmare is still ongoing. They want to go and feel like things are back to normal. No more half measures.

Obviously sure, it's just an opinion like everyone elses. I think a pretty valid one but also not the ONLY one either. You listed 'people waiting for APs' which is exactly the point he made as well and I pointed out someone I knew personally with this same attitude. But yes, I think that's another good point, a lot of people just don't think the cost is worth it given the parks still lacks lots of things like night time shows, character greets, no trams (its still shocking that hasn't been explained at all) etc.

But I also agree, I don't really think getting rid of reservations would make a huge difference either because there is literally no issue GETTING a reservation now. Hasn't been since mid-July. At the beginning I understood the frustration when you couldn't get a ticket until 3-4 weeks out, a lot of locals DON'T plan that way. But now? Not an issue. If you want to go tomorrow, you can. If you want to go the day after tomorrow, you can. Obviously that can all change on a dime but, once again, they have had the reservation system in all the Disney parks and it haven't seen to be a huge issue anywhere. They all basically seem to just be 1-2 days out at the most at this point and they been open a lot longer.

I think Disney was a bit shocked how fast the sales slowed down regardless of reason. And again I always have to point out DL doesn't live in a bubble, they had 5 other resorts open before this one did, WDW the biggest and that one had strong attendance for months after it opened. But it also had smaller capacity in that time too since there wasn't a vaccine and Florida was a huge mess virus wise. Hell still is. ;)

But WDW stayed very busy and seems to be much more busier than DL is now.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
But WDW stayed very busy and seems to be much more busier than DL is now.

Disney stated in their results yesterday that future park bookings are still going up, so they definitely seem happy with the current trajectory. While all 3 of DLR's hotels are open, WDW only has about 70% of their hotel capacity available. WDW is still struggling and the quarterly results for DPEP showed that (Domestic parks only made 2 million dollars, and the parks as a whole lost money again).

I do think the strategy is changing a bit, because, again, it's easier and cheaper for them to bring back discounted admissions than it is to add entertainment/staffing/hours or parking lot trams.
 
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1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
He
Speak of the devil, another interesting point why the new APs may be coming sooner than people thought:



Two things to take away from what is being said in that video (assuming its all true).

1. Disneyland capacity at the moment is only 40%.
2. The new AP program was originally suppose to start at the end of the year.

The 40% limit surprised me but then it shouldn't because none of the parks are operating at full capacity yet and most been open for a full year now, including WDW. It LOOKS busier but in reality the park is still very understaffed as well. But if thats true and its only operating at 40% then that speaks volumes when tickets are not only easy to get but they have a discount ticket for locals as well.

As far as number 2, the Disney President did say they were going to announce the passes at the end of the year and August is not the end of the year lol. I think they truly thought that attendance would be in MUCH higher demand and probably assumed even when September came around they could coast on the Halloween parties and not even those are selling out fast.

Dave makes the case this just comes down to former APs who have resisted coming back which I do think is part of the issue. I also just think it has to do with a lot of people still not being able to travel as freely and yes the Delta variant has kept people more away, none that he mentioned. But sure the BIGGEST group are probably just locals who refuse to pay for the day passes. And I know one of them. She's had a pass since 1989 and used to go monthly. Now she completely refuse to go until the APs comes back and she lives 20 minutes away. I imagine a lot of those are just sticking it out. And if you haven't gone to the park in over a year, what's a few more months on top of that if it means you can go more regularly for a much lower price again?

The video talks a lot about the reservation system possibly ending if enough APers decide not to buy more of the passes but I do think Disney is going to stick to its guns on that, at least for a year. But none of this is cut and dry. It's proof that its going to take a looooong time before real normalcy set in these parks for awhile.

He talks out of his butt. He is just saying what he thinks. He has no inside info at all. Take his word with a grain of salt.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
He

He talks out of his butt. He is just saying what he thinks. He has no inside info at all. Take his word with a grain of salt.

Dude all he was doing was giving his opinion lol. I just happen to agree with it and why I posted it. It's really good analysis on the situation IMO.
 

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