News Disney Vacation Club Announces Expansion at The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa

[pdude81]

Grand Floridian cost about 11% more points per night than Riviera, and 13% more cash dollars per night than Riviera, so I don’t know why they would charge more per point, The premium is already baked into the number of points.

They currently sell Grand Floridian for more than Riviera and supposedly have trouble filling the demand at the "sold out" price. So to sell at the current resort price (Riviera/Aulani) they would have to reduce the price. I didn't look up the actual price but it's in the ballpark of 260 right now

 

[CastAStone]

They currently sell Grand Floridian for more than Riviera and supposedly have trouble filling the demand at the "sold out" price. So to sell at the current resort price (Riviera/Aulani) they would have to reduce the price. I didn't look up the actual price but it's in the ballpark of 260 right now

Sure, but that demand is 1100 points per month, based on sales the last three years. They’ll want to sell 100,000 points a month.

 

[havoc315]

To correct on OKW, it's actually not that we have different end dates, we actually don't. We have some who signed a quitclaim to end their ownership early. All of OKW ends at 2057, with some opting to return their ownership interest early.

Aulani didn't just arbitrarily give different MFs as well. It was a massive mistake and people were fired over it. Sales were even halted for a time. Disney was nice and didn't slap the original owners with a massive increase that was all due to errors.

They don't just change rules because they want to. They cannot change a small portion of owners on a whim. They will either pull a failed OKW quitclaim/pay more not to sign, or the resort will all end on the same earlier date.

But we aren’t talking about changing a portion of owners. No existing GF owners would face the resale restrictions. None.
Because you can’t change what they already own.

You can say: starting January 1, 2022… all new direct sales will have new restrictions on the ability to resell.

And yes… they have done that before, such as changing blue card rules. You can always make changes moving forward.

 

[havoc315]

If the rooms are the same points as the current studios, and 60% of them are Lakeview, which matches the percent that are currently either lake or theme park view, and the rest are standard, and they charge $201 per point, which is the current Riviera price, they will make ~$350 million. There are 200 rooms, not 300. I think a reasonable guesstimate of construction costs is $150,000 to $300,000 per room, so Disney will make approximately “a killing” on this.

Hard to know whether they will use the existing point chart or whether they introduce new categories. These new studios will be significantly larger than the existing studios. (About 20% bigger).

 

[pdude81]

Sure, but that demand is 1100 points per month, based on sales the last three years. They’ll want to sell 100,000 points a month.

It's hard to gauge demand until they put the points on sale. They may sell a thousand points per month but they can only take back contracts that are sent for ROFR.

If they sell at the same cost as Riviera after selling higher for years, they may cannibalize sales at Riviera. If there isn't adequate demand at a higher cost, then these sell very slowly and that's a different problem. I can't say what they will do, but I know they stopped CCV short of actually selling out and jacked the prices way up. So that's why I assume the resort will sell at the price that's already there, but with discounts to manage the actual price per point based on demand.

 

[CastAStone]

Hard to know whether they will use the existing point chart or whether they introduce new categories. These new studios will be significantly larger than the existing studios. (About 20% bigger).

Yes, we shall see. I know I am basically alone on this but if you set an Over Under at 0.5 more points per night average then the current Rooms for the new rooms, I’d take the under. I genuinely do not expect them to be deluxe studios, as they called them something different in the press release.

 

[correcaminos]

But we aren’t talking about changing a portion of owners. No existing GF owners would face the resale restrictions. None.
Because you can’t change what they already own.

You can say: starting January 1, 2022… all new direct sales will have new restrictions on the ability to resell.

And yes… they have done that before, such as changing blue card rules. You can always make changes moving forward.

You're not even talking about what I addressed at all. I was not talking resales. I'm talking direct purchases. You cannot make changes to end dates the way it was stated if under the same resort.

What restrictions they offer is a whole different ballgame and not at all related to what you quoted me saying. Direct purchases cannot be changed and the end date for those cannot be split. If a completely separate resort they can, but adding on to an existing they cannot.

 

[homerdance]

Mob didn’t stop them from putting in the restrictions at Riviera. Not so sure the mob would stop them from re-working new contracts for future direct sales.
After all, current direct owners would be grandfathered in.
And I have to believe “add on” buyers are a small percentage of total sales (though I could be wrong)

They difference is being able to book in a different association is a perk , which are not guaranteed by anything.

 

[homerdance]

Not all Aulani have the same dues.

actually, yes, all owners pay the same dues. Some dues are subsidized though because of an accounting error.

And that is the same issue around what they are doing with the new GFV rooms. Unless it is a total tear down and rebuild, there are rules (laws) about what existing owners can be charged for. Anything not part of normal maintenance needs to be spelled out. DVC can’t charge existing members to refurbish new tone to be sold

 

[homerdance]

But we aren’t talking about changing a portion of owners. No existing GF owners would face the resale restrictions. None.
Because you can’t change what they already own.

You can say: starting January 1, 2022… all new direct sales will have new restrictions on the ability to resell.

And yes… they have done that before, such as changing blue card rules. You can always make changes moving forward.

https://images.app.goo.gl/LwGs3ATtiy1QqHxE8

Resale restrictions have nothing to do with when the original points were sold. Nothing. Nada. The lack of understanding of what a timeshare and DVC is astounding

 

[havoc315]

They difference is being able to book in a different association is a perk , which are not guaranteed by anything.

No… it’s actually a contractual right.

 

[havoc315]

https://images.app.goo.gl/LwGs3ATtiy1QqHxE8

Resale restrictions have nothing to do with when the original points were sold. Nothing. Nada. The lack of understanding of what a timeshare and DVC is astounding

They have EVERYTHING to do with the terms of the contract. And new buyers can always be offered a different contract.

That’s why I consulted a lawyer who specializes in timeshares.

Resale restrictions have NOTHING.. NADA.. to do with the condo association. They have to do with the terms of purchase.

 

[havoc315]

You're not even talking about what I addressed at all. I was not talking resales. I'm talking direct purchases. You cannot make changes to end dates the way it was stated if under the same resort.

What restrictions they offer is a whole different ballgame and not at all related to what you quoted me saying. Direct purchases cannot be changed and the end date for those cannot be split. If a completely separate resort they can, but adding on to an existing they cannot.

you weren’t addressing what I’ve been taking about — resale restrictions.

But yes.. end date could be changed, following the exact same mechanism as OKW. Have existing owners the choice of extending or sign a quit claim, give new direct buyers the longer date.
You’re claiming it’s impossible — yet it’s already been done.

 

[correcaminos]

you weren’t addressing what I’ve been taking about — resale restrictions.

But yes.. end date could be changed, following the exact same mechanism as OKW. Have existing owners the choice of extending or sign a quit claim, give new direct buyers the longer date.
You’re claiming it’s impossible — yet it’s already been done.

Nothing I quoted has anything to do with resale though, but if you meant it to be sorry I missed that. I really was pointing out that your view of what they did at OKW was incorrect. The whole resort was extended. You chose to quitclaim or not. That obviously happened but it was a dismal failure. I do not see them doing it again.

Aulani also is nothing to do with resale. They found the errors. Sales stopped. Execs were fired. Then they fixed the annual dues from that sales point on. If you buy the originals as a resale you benefit from the lower MFs.

Not sure what you last comment was about either. No where did I say it was impossible. I'm an OKW owner who watched it happen. Doubt they'd do it again. But not impossible... maybe you confused me with another poster? Or misunderstood what I was saying? They cannot just change end dates for new sales for part of the same resort. Either all get a new end date or they need a whole new resort. Quitclaim can be done but that's not the same as just changing the date for some newer sales but not all. This is all VGF and not a separate like BRV and CCV (or so they said)

And still nothing changes with resale on it. When you buy resale you still get the quticlaimed deed. Only direct erases the quitclaim. Some day I'll figure out what happens to my stuff since they lost paperwork.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Nothing I quoted has anything to do with resale though, but if you meant it to be sorry I missed that. I really was pointing out that your view of what they did at OKW was incorrect. The whole resort was extended. You chose to quitclaim or not. That obviously happened but it was a dismal failure. I do not see them doing it again.

Aulani also is nothing to do with resale. They found the errors. Sales stopped. Execs were fired. Then they fixed the annual dues from that sales point on. If you buy the originals as a resale you benefit from the lower MFs.

Not sure what you last comment was about either. No where did I say it was impossible. I'm an OKW owner who watched it happen. Doubt they'd do it again. But not impossible... maybe you confused me with another poster?

And still nothing changes with resale on it. When you buy resale you still get the quticlaimed deed. Only direct erases the quitclaim. Some day I'll figure out what happens to my stuff since they lost paperwork.

So was part of your issue with the $15/point price tag? I know that if we had been OKW owners, there is no way we would be willing to pay that. $5/point would have been our limit.

As far as the new VGF villas, DVC has already removed pricing from their website. They might be able to get away with $205 and maybe $210, but certainly not $260 like the resale price was. They should price it the same as Riviera, since they always pitched it as being at the same level as VGF. With enough incentives, we might consider buying there, but certainly not at $260.

 

[havoc315]

Nothing I quoted has anything to do with resale though, but if you meant it to be sorry I missed that. I really was pointing out that your view of what they did at OKW was incorrect. The whole resort was extended. You chose to quitclaim or not. That obviously happened but it was a dismal failure. I do not see them doing it again.

Aulani also is nothing to do with resale. They found the errors. Sales stopped. Execs were fired. Then they fixed the annual dues from that sales point on. If you buy the originals as a resale you benefit from the lower MFs.

Not sure what you last comment was about either. No where did I say it was impossible. I'm an OKW owner who watched it happen. Doubt they'd do it again. But not impossible... maybe you confused me with another poster? Or misunderstood what I was saying? They cannot just change end dates for new sales for part of the same resort. Either all get a new end date or they need a whole new resort. Quitclaim can be done but that's not the same as just changing the date for some newer sales but not all. This is all VGF and not a separate like BRV and CCV (or so they said)

And still nothing changes with resale on it. When you buy resale you still get the quticlaimed deed. Only direct erases the quitclaim. Some day I'll figure out what happens to my stuff since they lost paperwork.

Likely points were getting confused.

My original statement… which seems to have generated controversy, was merely that being in the same condo association does not guarantee new buyers will have all the exact same terms as earlier buyers. Some changes require more legal maneuvering than others — such as the quit claim extension at OKW.

There are many treating the GF extension, because it’s the same condo association, as an absolute definitive guarantee that the sales terms won’t change.

 

[WDWYankee15]

People already don't book the better views. That's another area where they need to make the reverse adjustment. Make it a smaller premium to upgrade your view.

Standard View Studios are too cheap.

This all day! I would much rather save points and get a standard room than having a "view" out a window or the balcony of something "special." There are a few rare exceptions to that, but not many. Further, at least at WDW, if you are out at the parks or at the pool at the resort, you are paying a bunch extra (in points used) for a view that you aren't "using."

I would much prefer to balance the studio points closer together for room views/location (ala Saratoga's preferred), by raising the points on standards and lowering them in the preferred views/locations.

 

[homerdance]

They have EVERYTHING to do with the terms of the contract. And new buyers can always be offered a different contract.

That’s why I consulted a lawyer who specializes in timeshares.

Resale restrictions have NOTHING.. NADA.. to do with the condo association. They have to do with the terms of purchase.

No… it’s actually a contractual right.

Exactly. That is my point.

 

[WDWYankee15]

In any event, the fact that this is 200 studios suggests Disney is well aware that people want studios more than other room types, and is leaning into this. The super wealthy will get their 1000-point contracts for a bungalow but they are trying to appeal to the upper middle class, more, including couples with no children. It’s easier to find 15000 families or couples with $25k to blow for “memories” than it is to find 1500 millionaires. Millionaires don’t even stay onsite at Disney anymore.

This is not only about the current customers but who they are trying to sell the future direct points to. With the current price of direct points and the constant rapid price increases per point, they can market too well to those who would need 200-300 point contracts. They are stressing the studios and the bank and barrow principles to entice people in. Heck, they love that there are value Studios (albeit very few) at AKL. They dangle how few points a family can make a trip to WDW on.

 

[correcaminos]

So was part of your issue with the $15/point price tag? I know that if we had been OKW owners, there is no way we would be willing to pay that. $5/point would have been our limit.

As far as the new VGF villas, DVC has already removed pricing from their website. They might be able to get away with $205 and maybe $210, but certainly not $260 like the resale price was. They should price it the same as Riviera, since they always pitched it as being at the same level as VGF. With enough incentives, we might consider buying there, but certainly not at $260.

I actually didn't have an issue with it to be fair. All of our paperwork was lost so I need to figure it out. I had just given birth to a baby though and wasn't going to do it then but let's just say my old guide sucked royally and I was put on a do not contact list. My contract never was fixed. Now my latest guide was laid off so eh, we'll figure it out.

I think for most the $15-25 cost (it went up after a time) felt extremely high to many owners. Some just wanted the end date to be original so they signed away. I'd be far more willing to shell out money now.

Likely points were getting confused.

My original statement… which seems to have generated controversy, was merely that being in the same condo association does not guarantee new buyers will have all the exact same terms as earlier buyers. Some changes require more legal maneuvering than others — such as the quit claim extension at OKW.

There are many treating the GF extension, because it’s the same condo association, as an absolute definitive guarantee that the sales terms won’t change.

For direct purchases it does though. Resale can do whatever they want, but if this is an extension of VGF then the direct sales will have the same end date for example for the entire resort... whatever that may be.

I don't think they'd try the OKW failure again. It would be easier to sell all at the same end date for a slightly lower than RR price. Or maybe they won't care. How long have they been selling Aulani? End date won't change just for that.