Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Pride = the opposite of shame. Shame is what the world was teaching us we should feel about ourselves. Context is everything.
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News Disney transforms Magic Kingdom's famous purple wall to celebrate PRIDE Month at Walt Disney World and will donate merch profits to support LGBTQIA+
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Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Then you see why Christmas doesn’t need an awareness month.
Don’t confuse a lack of “participation” with a lack of love. People can choose or change their religion; they cannot choose their orientation. You’re either born into this club or you aren’t.
Moreover, racial and religious minorities most often grow up in a household with family members of the same race or faith, which is affirming. Gay kids most often grow up in a household where they are the only one - and don’t even find that out until they begin to mature.
Try this mind-bender: grow up in a white, Christian household, told you have every advantage in the world (especially as a male) then realize you are gay when you’re around 12. As soon as you tell anyone, depending on what decade it is, you have fewer rights than any other group in America.
This makes the community even more important, and the initial outward facing of the community is a Pride event or Center.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
This was mind-blowing to read.
The answer has thankfully changed throughout my lifetime, but is not complete, and now people are actively fighting to rescind or devalue the gains we’ve made.
The Stonewall riots were in 1969. I was born in 1971. I realized I was gay in 1983. I didn’t act on that or tell anyone until 1995.
At that time, I could be denied housing without recourse. Back then as well as today, I could be fired with no recourse.
When friends adopted a baby girl, they had to temporarily set up residence in California for it to be legal. (They lived in NY at the time.)
There are over 1,000 rights and responsibilities associated with marriage.
In 3 months and 1 day, we’ll be celebrating our 15 year wedding anniversary on our first Disney (or any) cruise. That seems straightforward enough.
But at the time in our relationship when we were ready to marry, the only place to do it legally was Massachusetts - and you had to live there.
We went ahead and planned our wedding, anyway - in NJ. (We lived in FL but my family were in NJ and some don’t travel. My mother is in her 70’s and has never been on a plane.)
While we planned it, NJ passed Civil
Unions, the “separate but equal” cousin of the colored drinking fountain. Our license was #0001.
Apparently, we could have been denied a venue, a baker, and a florist - but once we found the venue, the rest fell into place. Obviously we couldn’t get married in our family church where I had been an altar boy, but a Unitarian Reverend performed the ceremony.
That wasn’t recognized where we lived in FL, so we also had to get a Broward County Domestic Partnership, which didn’t do much at all as far as legal protections went. I still couldn’t be added to my spouse’s health insurance, for example.
The following summer, marriage became legal in California, and you didn’t have to live there. We flew out and got the piece of paper. We now had a collection of 3 versions of marriage, most of which had no practical effect.
A couple of years later, as other states worked things out, we flew to Boston and then drove to NJ for Thanksgiving with the family. As we drove, I thought, “In this state, we’re married, in the next, we’re civil “unioned,” in another, nothing, etc. I morbidly joked if we had a car accident, it would be best to happen in MA or NY for legal reasons.
Years later, we joined the Key West-based lawsuit against the State of FL. We were ultimately strategically removed from the case before it went to trial because we were not similarly situated with the original couple. (They had never been married; we would be technically seeking FL recognition of our CA marriage, which is a different legal standard.)
As of a few weeks ago, if we adopted or had a baby via surrogacy, they couldn’t talk about us when we sent them to the school our property taxes support. That’s a new one. We expect more attempts, such as allowing certain entities to ignore our legal marriage.
What rights are you denied?
Dranth
Well-Known Member
Doesn't mean a Christmas celebration in the parks isn't exclusionary or unimportant to a lot of people yet you don't see folks saying they don't get it or complaining that it exists (in any real numbers). That is the disconnect and why it is brought up as an example.
On a personal note, I'm an atheist and have gone to the Candlelight Processional and had a great time because I can enjoy it for what it is and see how it is important to those that follow Christianity. Same thing with the wall and merch for Pride Month. I may not understand what is like to be part of the LQBTQ+ community but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with what they have been through/still go through and see why it is worth celebrating.
Unfortunately those rates are super high with that age group regardless of their sexuality. currently suicide is the third leading cause of death of individuals aged from 10 to 24.
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SpectroMan93
Well-Known Member
Oh, okay so um, I dunno, maybe we should do something to address that? Maybe, events like pride do their part in helping members of that age group? Because it definitely helped me.
Why so defensive??? I was just stating that is in issue in young people as whole.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I'm going to keep my comment simple. I do not believe that a theme park/resort is the correct venue to celebrate sexuality (any sexuality).
Walt Disney World is supposed to be a place to escape reality and enjoy rides, shows and scenery. It isn't supposed to be a place where "causes" are displayed.
I don't have any issue with people of any sexuality. In fact, at WDW some of my most memorable and enjoyable interactions have been with gay CMs. I just don't believe that WDW is the correct venue for overt pride events.
Walt Disney World is supposed to be a place to escape reality and enjoy rides, shows and scenery. It isn't supposed to be a place where "causes" are displayed.
I don't have any issue with people of any sexuality. In fact, at WDW some of my most memorable and enjoyable interactions have been with gay CMs. I just don't believe that WDW is the correct venue for overt pride events.
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Club Cooloholic
Well-Known Member
It's a thread about a Pride mural that a small percentage in here seem to take issue with. We attack problems where you can, a disproportionate number of suicides seem to happen to those who identify as gay. There are obvious reasons to this. So in this thread we are talking about LGBT mental health but yes it would be great to help lower suicide rates for all kids.
But please this isn't a this vs that, it'd more like you pointing out that there is testicular cancer out there in a thread on breast awareness.
BuddyThomas
Well-Known Member
It's not an "overt pride event". They are selling some food and merchandise with rainbows on it, and they have a small display on a wall. For a month. For one single month out of the year. If it's too difficult to face, there are 11 other months out of the year to enjoy your parks.
Maybe I missed it, but most princesses had a prince, with "they got married and they lived happily ever after" being how the stories ended. The sexuality was not overt, but it was there. Children didn't question what exactly went on in private between Ariel and Eric.
I don't consider a design on a wall, or Gay Pride rainbows everywhere, or even two people holding hands to be overt sexuality. Gay guests are not telling children what goes on in their bedrooms any more than straight couples (even fictional ones) are.
Why is sexuality in general an issue? Because that was (and still is ) being used as a reason to discriminate against people based strictly on their sexuality.
LSLS
Well-Known Member
They are, but the rates are double for LGBTQ.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
The rainbow symbol and associated pride movement highlight sexuality and is political in nature. Your example of the prince and princess stories is more analogous to having a gay couple with a child on the guide map (which somebody earlier in the thread said was done). That isn't something that is highlighting sexuality, it is just treating a gay couple as normal/accepted.
A theme park/resort is not the right venue (nor are sporting events) for political/issue demonstration. I am paying to go to MK. I don't want to be forced to consider LGBT rights and other issues while going to enjoy a few hours in a THEME PARK.
I would feel the same if the wall was painted with a Ukraine flag and there was a "support Ukraine" event. Did they have a World Trade Center mural painted after 9/11? Not that I recall and I wouldn't have wanted that either.
Again, WDW is supposed to be an escape, not a place for cultural or political movements to be promoted, no matter how "just" the movement in particular happens to be. Regardless of discrimination that exists, an entertainment venue where the guests pay to enter and have an experience is not the place to fight discrimination beyond the resort being welcoming and not discriminating against any guest or employee for any reason.
BuddyThomas
Well-Known Member
Then I have a solution for you. Go in January, February, March, April, May, July, August, September, October, November, or December. You'll be fine.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Then simply schedule your visits outside of June and Gay Days.
Personal problem solved.
John park hopper
Well-Known Member
Can you give a source for the suicide rate --I could not find it ---one site stated the rates were not kept
That is your opinion, you are allowed to express it, and others are allowed to agree or disagree.
Not so much speaking to you, but to posters as a whole.
Brian
Well-Known Member
That all sounds quite unpleasant, to say the least. However, these are all old examples. My question still stands: what civil rights are being routinely denied to LGBT people?
That is simply untrue. The law you are referring to does not affect student speech. Please do not spread misinformation.
This isn't my faith. But I'll be damned if the LGBT movement, or any movement, for that matter, tries to bludgeon a religion into forsaking it's central tenants for the sake of "equality."
Personally, I feel that God does not make mistakes, given that we are all made in His image. However, it is more nuanced than that, and if a church/religious organization feels that they do not wish to have LGBT pastors, that is their right and should be left alone about it, and certainly not be used as the basis for a sweeping statement of a lack of "equality" for LGBT people overall.
Yes. You (nor anyone else) don't get to choose when freedom of speech is permissible based on your own moral standard. That's an obvious slippery slope to tyranny.
It's up to the opposing side to present a counterargument which is morally and factually superior, and try to change the hearts and minds of the person with whom you disagree. Shutting down speech is the exact opposite of that.
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Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Two snaps up - with a twist!
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