Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[MonorailCoral]

Just checking, does everyone realize that the main reason why the stoppage lasted so long was not the original mechanical issue but because guests had called 911 and EMS thus decided they needed to attempt a rescue? (And the rescue was for a panic attack?). The phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes to mind.

How are you going to keep that from happening again? I doubt that everyone ranting about it here will change anything.

Other than requiring all riders to surrender their cellphones prior to boarding...You can't.

Once emergency services are requested by a single guest, Disney is not in legal a position to refuse care...To do so would set them up for all sorts of lawsuits for negligence/reckless disregard and, worst-case scenario, if someone happens to die because Disney did not allow responders to do their job, whoever gave that order at the control center could potentially be personally charged with involuntary manslaughter.

As I've said previously, only one 911 call on a hot afternoon during (even what would have been a relatively brief) stoppage will cause that entire line to go into a cascading mayhem.

 

[GoofGoof]

Other than requiring all riders to surrender their cellphones prior to boarding...You can't.

Once emergency services are requested by a single guest, Disney is not in legal a position to refuse care...To do so would set them up for all sorts of lawsuits for negligence/reckless disregard and, worst-case scenario, if someone happens to die because Disney did not allow responders to do their job, whoever gave that order at the control center could potentially be personally charged with involuntary manslaughter.

As I've said previously, only one 911 call on a hot afternoon during (even what would have been a relatively brief) stoppage will cause that entire line to go into a cascading mayhem.

They won’t ban cell phones. Disney just needs to improve communications and probably add some signage in the cabins suggesting what to do in the event of an extended stoppage. Give people the proper number to call to avoid a knee jerk reaction call to 911.

I agree with everything you said about once 911 is called. It’s out of Disney CM’s hands once the call is made. They have to defer to first responders who have to act as if it’s a real emergency. It’s life and death so no room for a grey area.

 

[Dead2009]

Just checking, does everyone realize that the main reason why the stoppage lasted so long was not the original mechanical issue but because guests had called 911 and EMS thus decided they needed to attempt a rescue? (And the rescue was for a panic attack?). The phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes to mind.

A scapegoat is always needed, regardless of the situation.

 

[raymusiccity]

I've been stuck for close to an hour at Kitzbuhel, Austria and for about 30 minutes at Stowe. But nobody had a panic attack, and called emergency services, and thus the stoppage was not prolonged by a rescue operation.

Agree 100%. Did anyone really think that Disney didn't know that the gondolas were stuck unless they called 911! After 1 hr went by, calling 911 had the same affect as pushing the 'extra cream' button on the coffee machine!!

 

[mergatroid]

A scapegoat is always needed, regardless of the situation.

How would you describe the events that differ from the post you were replying to?

 

[MonorailCoral]

They won’t ban cell phones. Disney just needs to improve communications and probably add some signage in the cabins suggesting what to do in the event of an extended stoppage. Give people the proper number to call to avoid a knee jerk reaction call to 911.

I worked 911 for years in a large metropolitan area...The level that people use 911 to "get their way" on a daily basis is through the roof (and we had no choice but to humor it and take their request at face-value), in spite of callers probably knowing that there are better options available than knee-jerking to 911 simply because they can.

The Skyliner scenario and the notion of "giving people the proper number to call to avoid a knee jerk reaction to 911" is one I would liken to 911 calls I would receive from those requesting an ambulance while inside a hospital emergency room(!) because they "weren't being treated fast enough" and they would "like to be transported to a different hospital"...Or those 911 calls from within assisted-living facilities requesting an ambulance because they didn't like the attitude of their nurse.

Disney can post all the signage and phone numbers they want...People will still call 911 out of spite because they can and, even worse, scream bloody-murder because they think it'll get them off faster.

And then, of course, there are still the legitimate emergencies to handle.

 

[tissandtully]

Wait till they have a scooter containing a 479lbs individual. The boom operator gets out his scientific calculator and radios down to his companions to check the boom angle.

Better hope that chair occupant doesn't try to save face and say "350lbs".

What’s the uh, weight limit on the gondolas?

 

[Goofyernmost]

What’s the uh, weight limit on the gondolas?

If you figured that every human weighed 150 pounds and there is space for 10 people on each gondola that 1500 pounds minimum. I'm sure a lot more then that, so aren't we glad that is one less thing to worry about. We won't have to remain vigilant and be upset if someone appears overweight.

 

[monothingie]

Just checking, does everyone realize that the main reason why the stoppage lasted so long was not the original mechanical issue but because guests had called 911 and EMS thus decided they needed to attempt a rescue? (And the rescue was for a panic attack?). The phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes to mind.

BS.

If there were a faster easier way for first responders to remove people from the system they would have done so. What happened was that first responders were given incorrect or no information about restoration of services by engineering, once someone qualified arrived to evaluate the system. First responders are not experts at the workings of the Skyliner, they can’t repair it or operate it, and without interacting and communicating with responsible parties, they can’t help people one it effectively. If those parties can’t give out the proper information, first responders have to move to another action plan, in this case it was setting up an alternative rescue system.

The real problem here is the lack of knowledge and communication exhibited by Disney. If Disney said that the system was going to be restored in 20 minutes, not a single FD rescue via tower ladder would have been attempted. But since no one either knew or communicated that, additional unneeded and wasted effort was made.

As an additional side note some 911 calls reported possible stroke, seizure, and loc (loss of consciousness). Those are considered life threatening emergencies.

 

[GoofGoof]

I worked 911 for years in a large metropolitan area...The level that people use 911 to "get their way" on a daily basis is through the roof (and we had no choice but to humor it and take their request at face-value), in spite of callers probably knowing that there are better options available than knee-jerking to 911 simply because they can.

The Skyliner scenario and the notion of "giving people the proper number to call to avoid a knee jerk reaction to 911" is one I would liken to 911 calls I would receive from those requesting an ambulance while inside a hospital emergency room(!) because they "weren't being treated fast enough" and they would "like to be transported to a different hospital"...Or those 911 calls from within assisted-living facilities requesting an ambulance because they didn't like the attitude of their nurse.

Disney can post all the signage and phone numbers they want...People will still call 911 out of spite because they can and, even worse, scream bloody-murder because they think it'll get them off faster.

And then, of course, there are still the legitimate emergencies to handle.

You will always have fools who abuse the system. Google McDonalds and 911 call and there are multiple stories about people calling for wrong orders or because they are out of chicken nuggets. Most of those people also were arrested.

I am giving people the benefit of the doubt here. The whole line was stopped for a while and only a small fraction of the people trapped called 911. I think if you provide people an alternate way to communicate back to the ground over 911 most will take it. Whether that’s a call button like some elevators have or a hotline to call. Most people if they are stuck for an extended period of time will just be frustrated and want to know when they will be moving again or will just want someone to gripe at. Give that to them and you save the 911 system for real emergencies.

 

[Disstevefan1]

You will always have fools who abuse the system. Google McDonalds and 911 call and there are multiple stories about people calling for wrong orders or because they are out of chicken nuggets. Most of those people also were arrested.

I am giving people the benefit of the doubt here. The whole line was stopped for a while and only a small fraction of the people trapped called 911. I think if you provide people an alternate way to communicate back to the ground over 911 most will take it. Whether that’s a call button like some elevators have or a hotline to call. Most people if they are stuck for an extended period of time will just be frustrated and want to know when they will be moving again or will just want someone to gripe at. Give that to them and you save the 911 system for real emergencies.

Agreed, if Disney simply communicated better with the folks stuck in the cabins, there would have been less panic which (maybe) would have resulted in less calls to 911.

Having said that, if another malfunction like what happened, happens again, you know someone will call 911.

 

[Tanna Eros]

911 and Disney are 2 unrelated things. If you are upset at Disney for not doing their due-diligence the answer is not to call 911. Call guest services, call Bob Iger himself if that helps. You shouldn’t call 911 to punish Disney or in the hope of giving them bad PR. Nobody is blaming the guests who got stuck for being upset or blaming the ones with real medical conditions for calling. The vast majority of guests who were stuck did not call 911 and that’s a good thing.

I know it’s me repeating myself over and over but it’s important for people to understand. If people read a bunch of posts here or anywhere else advocating everyone to light up 911 when the gondola stops that could lead to a serious problem. Just trying to put the other side out there in hopes people come to their senses and realize that is not the appropriate use of the 911 system.

I don't know if they were punishing Disney so much as they felt dire in the situation, and that feeling came from non-communication. It was if their situation didn't matter, and thus, they didn't matter, for they got no information that anyone was doing anything to alieve the situation. I'm not justifying calling 911, but perhaps mentally the passengers felt distraught enough to go there. They had no control of their lot, and that may have been their way of finding some control in it.

I was coming home on the highway with a new four year old dog, and had a tire blow out, and had to wait four hours for the AAA truck. (I blame myself, really, I should have checked the condition of the spare before I left to pick him up.) It wasn't myself or that man I married that I was upset about, it was a black hairy dog that needed a haircut on a 90degree day. We seemed to be stuck on the one part of the road where it was impossible to walk to a quicky mart to get water. A one hour drive extended to 6 hours. I wasn't prepared for a six hour drive- I didn't have bottled water and a drinking receptacle for my dog.

A lot of the calls could have been simply the panic of the unknown, not shaking their fist at the park that left them there dangling. I think of my highway scenerio when envisioning what happened in the Skyliner. We did call triple AAA a few times, but didn't find out what took so long until the driver showed up. After we found out that AAA has a screwed up new system to send help, we were fine.
All Disney had to do was put a human face/voice to their park and have a human explain what was going on. "We're working on it" comes across better than cricket silence.

 

[MonorailCoral]

You will always have fools who abuse the system. Google McDonalds and 911 call and there are multiple stories about people calling for wrong orders or because they are out of chicken nuggets. Most of those people also were arrested.

I am giving people the benefit of the doubt here. The whole line was stopped for a while and only a small fraction of the people trapped called 911. I think if you provide people an alternate way to communicate back to the ground over 911 most will take it. Whether that’s a call button like some elevators have or a hotline to call. Most people if they are stuck for an extended period of time will just be frustrated and want to know when they will be moving again or will just want someone to gripe at. Give that to them and you save the 911 system for real emergencies.

There are countless "chicken nugget"-type 911 calls that don't make the news, and happen every single day...I had personally received a countless number of them myself over the years, and my coworkers too. Most of those people actually don't get arrested (not our discretion as operators, but the responding officers who make that decision)...If they arrested every person who overreacts and calls 911 (other than outright "making a false report") every day, there wouldn't be any officers left on the streets by the end of any given shift because they'd all be stuck processing the callers into booking! Those types of calls were almost a welcome "comic relief" among all the actual serious stuff we routinely handled that really did weight heavy...you know, the shootings, stabbings, armed robberies, upside-down child floating blue in a pool, etc...But we weren't allowed, as operators, the discretion to say "Sorry, we're not sending anyone for ('chicken nuggets')"...because it only takes one "refusal of service" on our part and a subsequent escalation at the scene to be in a world of hurt from lawsuits, personal liability, etc. And most of the time, if it's already a 911 call over "chicken nuggets", the scene is already "less than cordial" to the point of being an escalating disturbance which prevents a transfer to the non-emergency line from being appropriate.

I understand that the layperson may want to give people the benefit of the doubt that they will seek and use an alternative form of service request before calling 911...But I learned in probably the first month on that job that countless people just don't care about saving the 911 system for real emergencies. And again, with regard to the Skyliner, it only takes one.

 

[Tanna Eros]

BS.

If there were a faster easier way for first responders to remove people from the system they would have done so. What happened was that first responders were given incorrect or no information about restoration of services by engineering, once someone qualified arrived to evaluate the system. First responders are not experts at the workings of the Skyliner, they can’t repair it or operate it without interacting and communicating with responsible parties. If those parties can’t give out the proper information, first responders have to move to another action plan, in this case it was setting up an alternative rescue system.

The real problem here is the lack of knowledge and communication exhibited by Disney. If Disney said that the system was going to be restored in 20 minutes, not a single FD rescue via tower ladder would have been attempted. But since no one either knew or communicated that, additional unneeded and wasted effort was made.

As an additional side note some 911 calls reported possible stroke, seizure, and loc (loss of consciousness). Those are considered life threatening emergencies.

Plus the carts themselves could have used a better identifying system, aka, numbers on the bottom of them, so the responders knew which cart to go to.

 

[trainplane3]

I understand that the layperson may want to give people the benefit of the doubt that they will seek and use an alternative form of service request before calling 911...But I learned in probably the first month on that job that countless people just don't care about saving the 911 system for real emergencies. And again, with regard to the Skyliner, it only takes one.

That is genuinely scary every time I hear that.

I'm one of two people that manage a e911 system for a large company and the amount of time and research we do prior to having a 911 test done in a certain jurisdiction would surprise some. Can't find a direct non-emergency number? Call a police department in that city and get the non-emergency number or have them transfer you. Then you talk to the manager of that PSAP and explain what you're doing. Sometimes that's it but other times you're filling out a form, sending it to our management, then having the PSAP director approve the 911 test if there are no larger emergencies occurring that day. Even then we've cancelled tests when we're given the all clear but some major event is happening in that city (parade, weather, large protests, etc). Sometimes we're told "just call 911 and say it is not an emergency and that you're testing a new phone system".

We've had only one test go wrong but luckily everyone was understanding. Still got billed though. On the flip side it proved how good our location data was.

At the very least if you're stuck in a cabin and can't find the non-emergency number, have the courtesy and tell them it's not an emergency. Is someone dying? That's an emergency. Is Karen scared of heights and wants off after a 20 minute stop? Not an emergency.

 

[Lirael]

I'm sincerely shocked people are condemning others for panicking and calling 911 after being stuck in a small suspended space for hours without any news.

How dare they not think about how this impacts disney and they should be arrested for doing it! /sarcasm. Seriously, I expected such ridiculous guest blaming from a "disney can do no wrong" board, not this one.

 

[peter11435]

I'm sincerely shocked people are condemning others for panicking and calling 911 after being stuck in a small suspended space for hours without any news.

While people ended up being stuck for hours, the initial calls to 911 rolled in after less than a half hour.

 

[drizgirl]

I'm sincerely shocked people are condemning others for panicking and calling 911 after being stuck in a small suspended space for hours without any news.

How dare they not think about how this impacts disney and they should be arrested for doing it! /sarcasm. Seriously, I expected such ridiculous guest blaming from a "disney can do no wrong" board, not this one.

This is the "gondola can do no wrong" board.

 

[MisterPenguin]

There are countless "chicken nugget"-type 911 calls that don't make the news, and happen every single day...I had personally received a countless number of them myself over the years, and my coworkers too. Most of those people actually don't get arrested (not our discretion as operators, but the responding officers who make that decision)...If they arrested every person who overreacts and calls 911 (other than outright "making a false report") every day, there wouldn't be any officers left on the streets by the end of any given shift because they'd all be stuck processing the callers into booking! Those types of calls were almost a welcome "comic relief" among all the actual serious stuff we routinely handled that really did weight heavy...you know, the shootings, stabbings, armed robberies, upside-down child floating blue in a pool, etc...But we weren't allowed, as operators, the discretion to say "Sorry, we're not sending anyone for ('chicken nuggets')"...because it only takes one "refusal of service" on our part and a subsequent escalation at the scene to be in a world of hurt from lawsuits, personal liability, etc. And most of the time, if it's already a 911 call over "chicken nuggets", the scene is already "less than cordial" to the point of being an escalating disturbance which prevents a transfer to the non-emergency line from being appropriate.

I understand that the layperson may want to give people the benefit of the doubt that they will seek and use an alternative form of service request before calling 911...But I learned in probably the first month on that job that countless people just don't care about saving the 911 system for real emergencies. And again, with regard to the Skyliner, it only takes one.

I would like some chicken nuggets. I'll send you a PM where I live...

 

[Lirael]

This is the "gondola can do no wrong" board.

Can do not wrong... except for the lack of AC I guess.

While people ended up being stuck for hours, the initial calls to 911 rolled in after less than a half hour.

Still. A half hour wait for something you expected to take 10 minutes while moving, considering they had no communication, is not a failure of the guests. People have anxiety, people have panic attacks. Maybe both of those aren't triggered by moving around slowly on a gondola, but would happen when stuck without any inkling that disney gives a damn or instructions on what to do in an emergency, like a disney SOS line number placed on the gondola.

This was a disney failure. Not just because the gondola stopped for too long (stuff happens, I know) but also (and for me, worse) because of their lack of communication. The guests should not be blamed for panicking, in this scenario