News Disney Park Pass System announced for Walt Disney World theme park reservations

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they’ll have a Marvel/Universal situation, what with all the WB/DC brands in Six Flags parks, and/or if Universal would be breaching the agreement with Marvel if they started doing Superhero attractions from DC properties
There's a clause that as long at Six Flags honors the contract (commissions paid, working order etc) they keep the rights. The only other way Six Flags loses the rights is if another entertainment company buys them. So they'd have to buy WB and Six Flags.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
There's a clause that as long at Six Flags honors the contract (commissions paid, working order etc) they keep the rights. The only other way Six Flags loses the rights is if another entertainment company buys them. So they'd have to buy WB and Six Flags.
Are those rights exclusive? I see multiple sites claiming they are, but there has to be more to that story because Warners’ licenses their properties to a number of non-Six Flag parks. Perhaps the exclusivity is America only, but that seems unclear. Also, of course, I believe IOA was intended to be WB focused but they demanded too high a percentage of the gate and Uni balked. This may have happened before WB sold Six Flags in 95, and granted the rights in the sale, but it still seems odd they would balk over the a few percentage in the Uni deal only to grant full, exclusive, long-term use.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
Are those rights exclusive? I see multiple sites claiming they are, but there has to be more to that story because Warners’ licenses their properties to a number of non-Six Flag parks. Perhaps the exclusivity is America only, but that seems unclear. Also, of course, I believe IOA was intended to be WB focused but they demanded too high a percentage of the gate and Uni balked. This may have happened before WB sold Six Flags in 95, and granted the rights in the sale, but it still seems odd they would balk over the a few percentage in the Uni deal only to grant full, exclusive, long-term use.
The difference between DC and Marvel at the time was a few percentages, but Marvel was more desperate and offered the rights forever at that rate. When WB spun off SF they licensed the rights (in the US) exclusively to Six Flags. What the contract now states is SF has them unless they commit an oops or are sold to another entertainment company (in which case it reverts back to WB). So if Universal bought WB, SF would still have the rights. If they bough Six Flags, the rights revert to WB.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
The difference between DC and Marvel at the time was a few percentages, but Marvel was more desperate and offered the rights forever at that rate. When WB spun off SF they licensed the rights (in the US) exclusively to Six Flags. What the contract now states is SF has them unless they commit an oops or are sold to another entertainment company (in which case it reverts back to WB). So if Universal bought WB, SF would still have the rights. If they bough Six Flags, the rights revert to WB.
I mean, Marvel wasn’t just more desperate, they were essentially dead. When they signed the contract, they were bankrupt and it was very unlikely that anything that looked much like Marvel would exist in a couple years. DC was backed by one of the largest entertainment conglomerates in the world and had been for decades.

Do you have a good source on the contract? I’m very interested. I’m also very curious as to why WB haggled so viciously with Uni only to turn around and grant such absurdly generous terms to the spun-off Six Flags. The story seems to be missing something.
 

EPCOT-O.G.

Well-Known Member
Reading up on this a bit more, it seems the DC/Six Flags is not an “in perpetuity” situation like the Marvel/Universal one is. Some reports say it’s due to expire / up for renewal come 2027/28
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I mean, Marvel wasn’t just more desperate, they were essentially dead. When they signed the contract, they were bankrupt and it was very unlikely that anything that looked much like Marvel would exist in a couple years. DC was backed by one of the largest entertainment conglomerates in the world and had been for decades.

Do you have a good source on the contract? I’m very interested. I’m also very curious as to why WB haggled so viciously with Uni only to turn around and grant such absurdly generous terms to the spun-off Six Flags. The story seems to be missing something.
I'm not sure if I can post links but a quick google search will give it to you
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
Reading up on this a bit more, it seems the DC/Six Flags is not an “in perpetuity” situation like the Marvel/Universal one is. Some reports say it’s due to expire / up for renewal come 2027/28
We know some things expire, but the actual contract doesn't give any specific date.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I mean, Marvel wasn’t just more desperate, they were essentially dead. When they signed the contract, they were bankrupt and it was very unlikely that anything that looked much like Marvel would exist in a couple years. DC was backed by one of the largest entertainment conglomerates in the world and had been for decades.

Do you have a good source on the contract? I’m very interested. I’m also very curious as to why WB haggled so viciously with Uni only to turn around and grant such absurdly generous terms to the spun-off Six Flags. The story seems to be missing something.
Unfortunately, the deal fell apart due to money. Universal was offering Warner Brothers (who own DC Comics) a 6% royalty fee to use the company's DC and Looney Tunes characters in the planned park. Warner, feeling like their assets were being grossly undervalued, demanded 10%. (This is pretty well known, as well as the park had plans for DC and had to switch).
 

lentesta

Premium Member
We need @lentesta to show us the numbers! 🙏 🙏 🙏
I would love to see standby wait times for months in 2019 VS. months in 2022.

Here's a spreadsheet showing the average actual wait times we've collected:
  • By attraction
  • Between 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. (so, the busy parts of the day)
  • From 2019 to mid-October, 2022
  • With confidence intervals around the averages
It's not by month - I'm not sure we have enough data for some of those for tight confidence intervals. Let me know what y'all come up with.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Here's a spreadsheet showing the average actual wait times we've collected:
  • By attraction
  • Between 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. (so, the busy parts of the day)
  • From 2019 to mid-October, 2022
  • With confidence intervals around the averages
It's not by month - I'm not sure we have enough data for some of those for tight confidence intervals. Let me know what y'all come up with.


Comparing 2019 to 2021:

Attendance is down -38.4% (based on TEA/AECOM numbers)
Wait times are up 19.4%

Fascinating...
 
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UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Comparing 2019 to 2022:

Attendance is down -38.4% (based on TEA/AECOM numbers)
Wait times are up 19.4%

Fascinating...

Yeah, it's interesting that the wait times in 2022 are generally in line with those from 2019, if not slightly higher, even though everyone talks about how slammed the parks were in 2019 and that the waits were miserable.

Of course the park experience is different with ILLs and Genie+, which is likely the reason.
 

EPCOT-O.G.

Well-Known Member
Comparing 2019 to 2022:

Attendance is down -38.4% (based on TEA/AECOM numbers)
Wait times are up 19.4%

Fascinating...
I don’t know what to take from this, or to how to infer effects of VQs or Genie+ vs FP system, or if this is a result of less people-eating entertainment options. But it seems they’ve drastically cut back on staffing and/or are throttling operations?
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Comparing 2019 to 2022:

Attendance is down -38.4% (based on TEA/AECOM numbers)
Wait times are up 19.4%

Fascinating...

I think you edited your post, but wait times broadly did not look up In 2021, were you comparing 2022 against 2019, but using the TEA 2021 numbers?

Unless a couple of the new attractions skew the data (I'd drop Rise, MMRR, Guardians and Rat), almost all the typical headliners look to be lower in 2021 on my rapid fire visual inspection.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Inferring from Len's data, I'd say 2022 attendance will see mostly a full MK recovery. AK and Epcot still ~10% below their 2019 peaks and DHS will have its attendance record. This is kind of what the guidance has been from their calls anyways. The total WDW resort attendance probably will wash out close to 2019.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Inferring from Len's data, I'd say 2022 attendance will see mostly a full MK recovery. AK and Epcot still ~10% below their 2019 peaks and DHS will have its attendance record. This is kind of what the guidance has been from their calls anyways. The total WDW resort attendance probably will wash out close to 2019.
I believe it will still be reduced due to capacity restrictions. They are working to redistribute guests to “quieter” times but it will take a bit to train people.

And numbers look a bit soft into 2023…
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I am beginning to understand the reasoning behind PPRs at least how it applies to WDW.

Just like the Genie app pushes guests to attractions that are less crowded. PPR’s push guests to the less crowded parks.

They want you go to the park, but they want to tell you which park to go to, they don’t want you to be free to choose which one.

Sure, when you can get the LL or PPR you wanted at the moment, it feels like freedom of choice.

It’s not, it’s just luck and timing.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I am beginning to understand the reasoning behind PPRs at least how it applies to WDW.

Just like the Genie app pushes guests to attractions that are less crowded. PPR’s push guests to the less crowded parks.

They want you go to the park, but they want to tell you which park to go to, they don’t want you to be free to choose which one.

Sure, when you can get the LL or PPR you wanted at the moment, it feels like freedom of choice.

It’s not, it’s just luck and timing.
...and planning.

You can go to the park you want to go to if you beat others to the reservation. Which is inherent in every system of reservations. Space runs out.

Or pay for the hopper.
 

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