News Disney Lakeshore Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[TimbertopNJ]

2021 13
2022 25.4
2023 0.3

I wonder if those numbers correlate to BPK and the beginning of the PIT, when members were speculating that the Island Tower would be part of the same Condo Association as the existing resort.

 

[BrianLo]

I wonder if those numbers correlate to BPK and the beginning of the PIT, when members were speculating that the Island Tower would be part of the same Condo Association as the existing resort.

I don’t think so, it wasn’t VGF or Poly being bought back.

 

[TimbertopNJ]

I don’t think so, it wasn’t VGF or Poly being bought back.

Ahh, nevermind then!

 

[monothingie]

My theory is DVC realized members will book "Resort" style rooms with points. Those same rooms can be bought as cash hotel rooms or booked through DVC. Why segregated the resort into DVC and Cash when it can practically serve as both, at least for the 10+ years many are anticipating for sellout.

DVC typically does not willingly convert timeshare rooms to cash hotel rooms. They do so because of member exchanges to compensate the other business units (DCL, WDW Resort, etc.) for members using points to go on a cruise or book a standard hotel room.

They will offer unsold inventory 60 days out to for cash to prevent vacant rooms.

 

[nickys]

DVC typically does not willingly convert timeshare rooms to cash hotel rooms. They do so because of member exchanges to compensate the other business units (DCL, WDW Resort, etc.) for members using points to go on a cruise or book a standard hotel room.

They will offer unsold inventory 60 days out to for cash to prevent vacant rooms.

True.

But until all rooms are declared, Disney can use them as cash rooms.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Undeclared inventory can be sold as cash bookings though.

Currently it seems it’s easier to book a Cabin at FW for cash than using points to book at 7 months.

With Lakeshore I think they’re counting on it not selling out for a decade or more, so they can use it like a regular resort.

Resale just now is stagnant in terms of the number of contracts available. I don’t know about the trend over time though.

Right but their intention is to declare and sell it all ASAP…

They have no interest in building these for “undeclared inventory”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There are 5611 DVC units sans Lakeshore, though about 300 aren’t declared.

There are 36933 onsite rooms of which 30246 are Disney owned. Maybe topping out at 20% if we want to roll Lakeshore lodge and the ultimate ?200 units they need after that and assume they are never adding another cash room again.

Again, Disney is still largely in the cash hotelier business; DVC is the side hustle.

Now you know that Disney NEVER wanted to be in the hotelier business and never will

They’re inefficient and run at way too high of an overhead.

Dvc has been used as a way of “escaping” that.

And if Disney could get away with outsourcing their hotel ops like Comcast does…they’d do it in a heartbeat.

 

[monothingie]

Now you know that Disney NEVER wanted to be in the hotelier business and never will

They’re inefficient and run at way too high of an overhead.

Dvc has been used as a way of “escaping” that.

And if Disney could get away with outsourcing their hotel ops like Comcast does…they’d do it in a heartbeat.

Room service - nope
Non-Hospital grade linens and bed coverings - nope
Turn Down Service - nope
Non Basic grade toiletries - nope
Housekeeping every day in all resort categories - nope

 

[Disstevefan1]

Room service - nope
Non-Hospital grade linens and bed coverings - nope
Turn Down Service - nope
Non Basic grade toiletries - nope
Housekeeping every day in all resort categories - nope

Worst part, folks accept this and KEEP VISITING! - Disney WINS AGAIN!

 

[MisterPenguin]

From Perplexity...

 

[Dr.GrantSeeker]

Now you know that Disney NEVER wanted to be in the hotelier business and never will

They’re inefficient and run at way too high of an overhead.

Dvc has been used as a way of “escaping” that.

And if Disney could get away with outsourcing their hotel ops like Comcast does…they’d do it in a heartbeat.

As someone who works in operations, not hospitality ops, I do really like understanding how businesses are run. How is Disney that inefficient and have operating costs that high? This is me just being genuinely interested in the topic.

Room service - nope
Non-Hospital grade linens and bed coverings - nope
Turn Down Service - nope
Non Basic grade toiletries - nope
Housekeeping every day in all resort categories - nope

Especially when they don’t even offer any of these services any more. All they do is check you in and out, while desperately hoping you used the MDE app to check in/out yourselves.

Why are they so bad at hotels?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As someone who works in operations, not hospitality ops, I do really like understanding how businesses are run. How is Disney that inefficient and have operating costs that high? This is me just being genuinely interested in the topic.

Mostly employee to room ratio…

They can run a Holiday inn express with about 12 peeps. My info is dated but all in a 2,000 room Disney spot (neon hell on earth) used to require around 900 employees all in on the books to operate. Now part of that is the quality…which is why they’ve been so successful. But that is not an efficient way to run a lodge.

Especially when they don’t even offer any of these services any more. All they do is check you in and out, while desperately hoping you used the MDE app to check in/out yourselves.

Why are they so bad at hotels?

Story time…

So there’s conflicting histories here

Did Walt Disney lament that he had to partner and never owned the Disneyland hotel or any in the groves of Anaheim?
Yes.
But was Walt Disney a prudent businessman? No…he was a nut…
Always choosing passion over prudence. It’s part of the foundation

Fast forward to Roy in Orlando…who specially did NOT want to run a hotel. The construction AND operation was leased to US Steel: they just clustered it and they took over operations to get the place off the ground.

Only one Disney ceo has really had any affinity for the hotel biz…and he wasn’t all in either. You can guess who.

Wdw is a weird Hotel animal…the huge expansion has been a cash cow and is now a huge burden/liability. Just think of the transportation…they have 4 ways to get you in to the gates that don’t involve sneakers…

And they all are inefficient and frankly suck. Huge overhead

It’s a beast. And it will live and die as a semi tamed beast forever

 

[monothingie]

As someone who works in operations, not hospitality ops, I do really like understanding how businesses are run. How is Disney that inefficient and have operating costs that high? This is me just being genuinely interested in the topic.


Especially when they don’t even offer any of these services any more. All they do is check you in and out, while desperately hoping you used the MDE app to check in/out yourselves.

Why are they so bad at hotels?

They have a dedicated guest base that will happily pay more and receive less.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They have a dedicated guest base that will happily pay more and receive less.

“Disney: The Iger Years”

 

[Dr.GrantSeeker]

Wdw is a weird Hotel animal…the huge expansion has been a cash cow and is now a huge burden/liability. Just think of the transportation…they have 4 ways to get you in to the gates that don’t involve sneakers…

And they all are inefficient and frankly suck. Huge overhead

It’s a beast. And it will live and die as a semi tamed beast forever

Thank you for the great answers.

So in theory there really is not an effective and efficient way to run the Disney resorts?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Thank you for the great answers.

So in theory there really is not an effective and efficient way to run the Disney resorts?

I say people movers everywhere connecting everything JK. I know the future is Skyliners.

Of everything they built, implementing the Skyliners seemed to go up fast.

The subcontractors on that job must have been great.

BTW, effectiveness and efficiency does not matter. They will still come. Disney wins again.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Thank you for the great answers.

So in theory there really is not an effective and efficient way to run the Disney resorts?

They are profitable because in the end…they feed the “engine” of the parks for revenue

But can you run them cost effectively? Not really

Only way to even cheat that is slap a tower on existing hotel infrastructure with minimal services…have the people staying in them finance it…and claim that you’re “magical” for committing more than half you life to do so via contract

…eventually they’ll go that route

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I say people movers everywhere connecting everything JK. I know the future is Skyliners.

Of everything they built, implementing the Skyliners seemed to go up fast.

The subcontractors on that job must have been great.

BTW, effectiveness and efficiency does not matter. They will still come. Disney wins again.

I think you’ve seen the last of the skyliners

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think you’ve seen the last of the skyliners

So you're telling me there is a chance for people movers?

 

[MR.Dis]

I think you’ve seen the last of the skyliners

This comment goes to what I have guessed at, but had no evidence.....basically Disney has not been pleased with the Skyliner performance. Go back to the original plans and the line was supposed to have a branch go to Disney Springs/ Saratoga Springs DVC and another to AK park/Lodge. The fact that there is not even a hint of either being built tells me my original thoughts on Disney's not being happy with the Skyliner is correct.