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Disney Labor Shortage

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
As a small business owner in the hospitality industry in Florida, it is difficult to find good people, especially right now. What @flynnibus has been saying is absolutely true. And it’s not just American youth. I’m Cuban, I know a lot of Cubans. I hire mostly Hispanics. There is a significant difference in Cubans coming over today vs Cubans who came 30+ years ago. The work ethic is totally different (for the worse). Are there exceptions? Of course. I’ve noticed the same trend @flynnibus has noticed in American youth too. A sense of entitlement has killed work ethic.

edit: if you ever get a chance to visit a country like Nicaragua and visit the factories there, I highly recommend it before it disappears. There is nothing like watching hundreds of people in the same room rolling cigars and doing the exact same thing. People are still relatively free of entitlement there and jump at work and work hard.
 

WannaGoNow

Active Member
Ah, yes, I forgot folks who eventually stop collecting unemployment are no longer counted as unemployed.

That sure does skew the numbers.

For folks who start to look again I am guessing the only way they get counted again as unemployed, is they eventually file for unemployment again?

To file for unemployment again, I think you need to actually have to both prove you have worked X numbers of weeks before the latest job loss and to show proof you were looking for a new job to continue to get unemployment money again, but I think some states do not require proof of job search anymore?

Also, there are more folks than you think that simply do not have health care, working or not...

So it seems to me, for unemployment numbers to go up after the unemployment enhancements are gone, presuming these folks were no longer counted as unemployed, is for these folks to actually get a job, lose the job and file for unemployment again to be once again counted as unemployed?

The unemployment rate is the number of people looking for work who aren’t presently employed as a percentage of the overall labor force. Those people may or may not presently qualify for unemployment insurance, so the unemployment rate and unemployment insurance are two separate things. Who qualifies for unemployment insurance, the requirements for continuing to qualify, and for how long are determined by each state.

People don’t have health care because they can’t afford it and/or their employers call them contract workers when they should really be on staff and/or employers keep worker hours just under full time status so the workers don’t qualify and/or employers won’t increase staff numbers (but increase part time staff and/or staff hours) so the employer remains under the state employee minimum to provide benefits.

Employers who work the system to avoid paying workers benefits is another reason why, when the pandemic gave people time and space to look around and assess their options, some decided not to return to being overworked for subsistence wages and no additional compensation. Especially if they found other ways to be productive. Might as well drive a minimum of 15 - 25 hours for Uber and Lyft and earn health care stipends and above minimum wage hourly pay.

Again, the nature of work has dramatically changed. Employers must adapt or go out of business. That’s just supply and demand.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
Oh, to answer this one, I live in the Dallas Fort worth area. Most cities and tons of other businesses have pools, from the giga-hotels (Great Wolf Lodge etc) to the smallest of cities. Lifeguard pay rates range from minimum wage to over $20 (City of Irving). $11 seems to be the point where kids start to trickle in. $8 is a tough sell, but can get you kids that have no cars and walk to work. You are still looking at reduced hours until you get to $13hr. At $12, you can open about 60% of your traditional hours.

So entities like...

Arlington TX $15-16hr
Great Wolf Lodge $12 (but a sweet indoor environment)
City of Irving $20 (granted that is a lifeguard II)
...and many more in this range have first dibs on staff, and the rest of the entities get to bidding.

If those areas are able to fill positions at those rates.. great. But those rates don't move the needle at all here. Like I pointed out before... 'stand in a retail mall' will get you $12/hr here... and $15+ will get you a fast food job. $19+ for camp counselor type work.. and yet all those businesses are struggling to fill spots.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I would not say it is as bad as that. There is a minority making the majority look bad. I hire a lot of millennials and they do pressure that they get a reasonable work life balance. Being an X'er and a latch key kid, I never fully understood this, and still don't, but I do regret missing a lot of my kids lives because work was always more important. It doesn't have to be that way, and I know this too late for me. But I can make sure my millennials don't make the same mistake. Lol, and they are more than willing to let me.

When I say 'work ethic' I am talking the umbrella label of how people approach work/assignments.

Simple things like...
- taking initiative to address something without being told to
- actually having a professional engagement with your employer
- thinking that showing up to work presentable is something you should consider
- not sitting on your phone constantly while on the clock or in a professional setting
- making contact to find your next task rather than be happy to sit in place saying "no one told me..."
- SHOWING UP FOR WORK
- attitude towards superiors
etc etc

The next most common "bad" behavior is calling in sick a ton more than us X'ers ever did. I could go years and never call in sick. The millennials seem to rarely make 90 days. But, again, is this really a problem? I mean, my gut says it is, but my brain says it is probably ok.

You mean like 'personal health days'? lol

When I say 'people skiils' I mean the ability to have an appropriate conversation with your employers or even with customers.

You are on about millennials... I'm talking about the younger kids under age 26 who are the population filling most of the part time work that was being discussed.

Entitled to what? Work-life balance? Living wages? Equal rights? Clean Environment? Affordable *insert whatever you want here*?

Entitlement that seems to forget the employer is there to do a JOB and complete the tasks their job requires... not what they feel like doing, or thinking they are 'owed' things because they heard online that's what other people get, or the idea the employer OWES them something for granting us their presence that day.

But be warned, they are sick of what we are doing and have done. Change, big change, is coming. It is already happening. I don't know if it will be for the better or worse, but it is coming. My biggest fear is that at the rate we are printing money, we are going to have a rude awakening soon.
Don't worry, campaign season starts soon enough and we'll hear all the blame game ad nauseum around costs increasing.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Yep, there is also the opportunity cost issue around poor worker compensation. Closest to home is the cost of childcare. If a stay at mom\dad goes into the workforce at poverty wages, they cannot afford childcare and rent.

There are a LOT of stay at home parents that would be just fine working if they could afford childcare. A huge untapped resource. ...but not at $12hr.

I think the rise of Etsy is a great example to what you are referring. These are workers, that would work, if paid more. Instead, they are forced to stay home and do side hustles. Not that they don't like their side hustles, I am just saying this is yet another untapped resource. ...but not at $12hr.
One option some choose to go is to pay for childcare under the table. One lady I knew who spoke very little English ran a childcare operation out of her home and she took care of a lot of kids daily.
 

WannaGoNow

Active Member
When I say 'work ethic' I am talking the umbrella label of how people approach work/assignments.

Simple things like...
- taking initiative to address something without being told to
- actually having a professional engagement with your employer
- thinking that showing up to work presentable is something you should consider
- not sitting on your phone constantly while on the clock or in a professional setting
- making contact to find your next task rather than be happy to sit in place saying "no one told me..."
- SHOWING UP FOR WORK
- attitude towards superiors
etc etc

This sounds like Boomers complaining about Gen X, who were called slackers.

And the Greatest Generation complaining about Boomers, who were called dirty hippies and drop outs.

And Victorians complaining about flighty flappers and Good Time Charlies.

Which isn’t to say that work culture and what is permissible or not in the workplace hadn’t greatly changed, of course. But each generation seems to think they were paragons of hard work as young adults, but young adults now are unprofessional and entitled and lack a work ethic. Which might have more to do with being a young adult and lacking professional experience than anything else, perhaps.

One option some choose to go is to pay for childcare under the table. One lady I knew who spoke very little English ran a childcare operation out of her home and she took care of a lot of kids daily.

Forcing people to have no other recourse but to use unlicensed day care - what happens if their child has an emergency?! - and open themselves up for potential scrutiny from the IRS for paying for childcare under the table: that’s an egregious bug, not a feature, of the current system.

Another option would be employer-provided daycare or stipends for child care or flex hours for child care. Just sayin’.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Which isn’t to say that work culture and what is permissible or not in the workplace hadn’t greatly changed, of course. But each generation seems to think they were paragons of hard work as young adults, but young adults now are unprofessional and entitled and lack a work ethic. Which might have more to do with being a young adult and lacking professional experience than anything else, perhaps.

Until... they know the convention and just ignore it. You know like... showing up for a shift? Telling someone they quit? Knowing that being scheduled means they EXPECT you to be there? Significant discussions like employment happening in real-time, not text messages.

No, this isn't old man screaming at cloud. This is employer telling you how new part-time employees behave in 2021.
 

Elfinko

Well-Known Member
The $300 'handout' (which, by the way, is just your tax dollar being given back to you), is a moot point. Why would you want to employ that type of person in the first place?
 
While I am an avid reader of these boards... I very rarely comment as I am not in a position to do so with any deep knowledge that I can add to a discussion. This, however, is right up my wheelhouse. As a Financial/Marketing VP; there really is a clearer explanation. In the end, this is how markets work. For years, employers have been able to demand higher and higher standards (Bachelors Degree required for Entry level jobs, more years experience required for lower level jobs /less pay for more work...etc) and now; labor markets have changed... and workers have an upper hand position. Regardless of the arguments about artificial stimuli from the government in terms of extra unemployment insurance; the fact is that labor capital is in flux. Labor holds the upper hand at the moment, and if it is held once the stimuli runs out; there will be an even larger reckoning in the markets. The balance will change again at some point.

Will this current situation fundamentally change the American workforce/workplace?
(As in;
A) the ending of million dollar CEO stock bonuses/options in favor or paying employees more
B) permanently changing minimum pay rates
C) No company will hold any employees except upper management --all others will be contractors/staffing company employees
D) Insert your theory change here

Your guess is as good as mine. But the balancing of the labor market (or if you wish---the reckoning of the current employer's "greed/protection of financial capital:--depending on which political side/sociological/generational side of the divide you are on).. has been a while in coming, Statistics bear that out.

In WDW's case, they will be able to alleviate some of the pressure via their college program/international program. It provides an artificial cushion that another corporation---say--- Comcast--does not have. It will eb an interesting battle in Orlando watching a $15 Universal job vs the Disney $13 an hour job plays out.
 

phillip9698

Well-Known Member
When I say 'work ethic' I am talking the umbrella label of how people approach work/assignments.

Simple things like...
- taking initiative to address something without being told to
- actually having a professional engagement with your employer
- thinking that showing up to work presentable is something you should consider
- not sitting on your phone constantly while on the clock or in a professional setting
- making contact to find your next task rather than be happy to sit in place saying "no one told me..."
- SHOWING UP FOR WORK
- attitude towards superiors
etc etc



You mean like 'personal health days'? lol

When I say 'people skiils' I mean the ability to have an appropriate conversation with your employers or even with customers.

You are on about millennials... I'm talking about the younger kids under age 26 who are the population filling most of the part time work that was being discussed.



Entitlement that seems to forget the employer is there to do a JOB and complete the tasks their job requires... not what they feel like doing, or thinking they are 'owed' things because they heard online that's what other people get, or the idea the employer OWES them something for granting us their presence that day.


Don't worry, campaign season starts soon enough and we'll hear all the blame game ad nauseum around costs increasing.

All of those are complaints that pervious generations had regarding the one that followed. The only one that doesnt apply is the one about phones, and the reason previous generations werent on their phones all the time is because they didnt have phones that have the capabilities that todays phones have. I distinctly remember people complaining about "slackers" actually talking on the land line phones instead of doing their jobs. If those people had cell phones, they would have been using that instead to skirt work. That lazy cashier who spent their time reading a magazine, flirting with women, or talking on the company phone instead of working is just doing all that now with their cell phone.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
All of those are complaints that pervious generations had regarding the one that followed. The only one that doesnt apply is the one about phones, and the reason previous generations werent on their phones all the time is because they didnt have phones that have the capabilities that todays phones have. I distinctly remember people complaining about "slackers" actually talking on the land line phones instead of doing their jobs. If those people had cell phones, they would have been using that instead to skirt work.

Dismiss it all you want - be an employer of part time labor today vs even just 2 years ago and you'd understand the struggle.
 

phillip9698

Well-Known Member
Dismiss it all you want - be an employer of part time labor today vs even just 2 years ago and you'd understand the struggle.

I run a warehouse that is 30% temp labor and 70% full timers with a pay range that is in the bottom 35% of the providers in my immediate area. Been in this business damn near 20 years now. If anyone knows about a labor shortage and the difficulty attracting people back to work, its me. 😩

One reason its hard to get people to problem solve on their own is because its been trained OUT of them. Most places now deviating from the SOP means a reprimand even when there wasn't a stupid SOP to be followed.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
The job market is more complicated than "lazy people taking the extra $300."

On a similar note, I doubt all these boomers retiring early isn’t affecting the labor market at all.
 

Disney Golf

New Member
I'll shorten it for you... There is a cultural shift that they think they should get more for doing less.. and that people owe them a great living. Add into that 'careers' like being an influencer, doing youtube videos, scalping retail, etc... when you see people doing that, why would you want to do a job where someone tells you what to do, and you have to be somewhere on someone else's schedule, etc?

Work ethic is in the toilet
People skills are way down
Entitlement is way up
Buoyed by movements that condition people to blame others rather than look at self-responsibility
Well Stated!!!
 

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