Disney Genie, Genie+ officially introduced along with confirmed details of how it will work

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Everyone wants more capacity regardless of which system they favor.
And yet…absolutely NONE is coming after next year.

Zilch.

And I know you hate it…but why would they when people pay premiums for short time periods for upsells to get at the limited capacity?

Now you get to pass go and collect $200
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The problem is when they add capacity, they push the marketing lever to fill that capacity and we're back to square one.
The problem is deeper than that. They push the marketing lever because they delay adding capacity for as long as possible while Walt Disney Imagineering’s costs continue to spiral out of control.

But it’s not just attractions. The world’s busiest theme park has had abandoned and under used retail and dining space, spaces that could help with capacity and directly generate revenue.
 

disneyglimpses

Well-Known Member
The problem is deeper than that. They push the marketing lever because they delay adding capacity for as long as possible while Walt Disney Imagineering’s costs continue to spiral out of control.

But it’s not just attractions. The world’s busiest theme park has had abandoned and under used retail and dining space, spaces that could help with capacity and directly generate revenue.
Certainly. In reality, the solution here is reduce volume. And we all know what that means.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The problem is when they add capacity, they push the marketing lever to fill that capacity and we're back to square one.
Yes and no…

The first instinct is that more capacity will mob the place and require unwanted overhead…

But consider it’s already expensive enough that they’re close to draining their client pool?

In that case added capacity can work for both sides.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Depends on your definition of rope drop but far more than 5,000 people arrive at the Magic Kingdom from pre-open to 1 hour after open.
We picked up an early bus to leverage the early entry 30 minutes. Got to the park and let in even before the early entry. Queued up on the bridge towards Cosmic rays with lots of other early entry hotel guests still prior to the 30 minutes. Right on time, they dropped the rope and everyone walked in. We were far enough back that by the time we got to 7DMT the line was already somewhere near or beyond Dumbo. Immediate change of plan, we were not waiting in that for 7DMT, MDE when it updated a few minutes later was already showing an hour. We did Speedway and Buzz then over to Splash right at full park open, no lines for any of them, then a short one for HM. G+ for Peter Pan and Pirates in the morning. Space and BTMR LL in the evening. 5,000 isn't even close, there was way more than that there for start of the day.

Of the 3 Rope Drops we did, it had the lowest pay out. At AK, we only beat off site guests in by 3 minutes, but it was enough to save an hour for Flight of Passage. At DHS, we were early enough to be held at the tap points, that got us on RotR with practically no line, and then Smugglers and Toy Story too.

The early entry perk is clearly designed to drive more and more people to rope drop and get in the park as soon as possible early in the morning.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Yes, but there will always be a line reservation system at WDW. People may as well advocate for the one that works best for them.
One system didn’t really work for management…it was a dead ender. And guess who’s vote counts most?
I think it has. Nobody really “rejected” fastpass. But there seemed to be a lot of “rejection” or genie…and by default the fee is the deterrent, no?
Do you know whether Disney has ever considered going all standby? No line reservation system at all?
In what year would they do that? Because part of the reason for FP 1.0 designed in 1996 was to manage crowds…and make money. What has/hasn’t happened since?
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The problem is when they add capacity, they push the marketing lever to fill that capacity and we're back to square one.

I don't think that's really a legitimate concern anymore.

The parks are busy all the time. Building new attractions doesn't create a massive influx of new guests -- Galaxy's Edge didn't overwhelm DHS and Guardians hasn't created any issues whatsoever at EPCOT (helped by the fact Guardians is a relatively minor draw for the WDW customer base, but that's a separate discussion). Pandora led to something like an 8k daily attendance increase at DAK, but that was with two new attractions and additional dining and shopping. It certainly made the overall park experience better.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
What happened with Volcano Bay? 🤔
Volcano Bay is a 100% virtual queue park. You can’t do stand-by for the slides, you have to get a return time. It was part of an effort at Universal to switch to virtual queues that also included Jimmy Fallon’s Race Through New York (which opened without a stand-by queue) and Fast & Furious Supercharged (which was also not supposed to have a stand-by queue). When Volcano Bay opened it was a crowded mess. The things people expect to just be available at water parks like the lazy river were full. The waits for food were horrendous. Universal botched the park capacity calculation and had to reduce how many people they admit to the park.

Virtual queues require more space and more capacity than stand-by because people are still there. You need a place to put them, to give them something to do while they are waiting outside the physical queue. Theme parks are an even bigger puzzle than a water park because lounging around, swimming in the wave pool or drifting along in the lazy river are expected parts of a day at a water park. As much as people like the PeopleMover, just sitting on it for multiple rides right through is not something a large portion of visitors consider a key part of a visit to the Magic Kingdom.

Volcano Bay was supposed to be the big kickoff to Universal’s bold new queue-less future and instead it was the end. Universal Studios Beijing is not a virtual queue park. Epic Universe will not be a virtual queue park.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
A VQ only park could work if it was designed that way from the ground up, but I have a hard time imagining how it would be economically feasible. It would require so much additional dining, shopping, etc. capacity that operating costs would skyrocket compared to a normal park (would probably need at least double the staff, if not more), not to mention the much larger overall footprint required.

The idea of turning an existing park into VQ only is a pipe dream (and one that no one would actually want to experience unless they charged $1000+ for a one day ticket and/or had a tiny admission cap).
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Volcano Bay is a 100% virtual queue park. You can’t do stand-by for the slides, you have to get a return time. It was part of an effort at Universal to switch to virtual queues that also included Jimmy Fallon’s Race Through New York (which opened without a stand-by queue) and Fast & Furious Supercharged (which was also not supposed to have a stand-by queue). When Volcano Bay opened it was a crowded mess. The things people expect to just be available at water parks like the lazy river were full. The waits for food were horrendous. Universal botched the park capacity calculation and had to reduce how many people they admit to the park.

Virtual queues require more space and more capacity than stand-by because people are still there. You need a place to put them, to give them something to do while they are waiting outside the physical queue. Theme parks are an even bigger puzzle than a water park because lounging around, swimming in the wave pool or drifting along in the lazy river are expected parts of a day at a water park. As much as people like the PeopleMover, just sitting on it for multiple rides right through is not something a large portion of visitors consider a key part of a visit to the Magic Kingdom.

Volcano Bay was supposed to be the big kickoff to Universal’s bold new queue-less future and instead it was the end. Universal Studios Beijing is not a virtual queue park. Epic Universe will not be a virtual queue park.
And when even the People Mover has a 45 minute wait with a castmember standing beyond the stage in the direction of Space Mountain with a "line starts here" sign, you know you're in trouble.

... Unless you're Disney which means you've right-sized things, I guess. 🙄

In the case of Race Through New York, the virtual que works well since that's not a popular draw which sounds like a knock but really, it allows the attraction to fit the space really well in a way that something that would require a standby line wouldn't...

But the other problem in terms of the parks IMHO, especially MK (I'm thinking a big part of New Fantasyland), is that when you start having to create more space for people to stand around in because you're pushing VQ systems you're also eating into potential attraction space be it smaller experiences or streetmosphere space* or what have you.

It also makes smaller attractions kind of impossible because they'll be swamped with people. In general, it makes the smaller more intimate experiences that allow guests to get closer and be more involved really hard to pull off without using an upcharge or some other method to force guest to opt themselves out of it.**

Going back to Universal after a long hiatus while I waited for my son to grow into the experiences there, the thing that struck me most was... the number of places to sit down available in those two parks. People weren't sitting around on the ground off in corners like tiny little homeless encampments. There were still benches and seats and things of that nature all over the place and they weren't just full of people monopolizing them - you didn't have to fight anyone for a place to sit because there was no scarcity of available space.

It's so weird what WDW has become.



*Of course, they'd rather not pay for this anymore so no big loss for them, right?

**Also not a problem for Disney, I guess, but it sure creates the "what did my ticket even buy me?" feeling when people get in and find out that whole experiences are designed around required purchases set at prices higher than admission.
 
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Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
And when even the People Mover has a 45 minute wait with a castmember standing beyond the stage in the direction of Space Mountain with a "line starts here" sign, you know you're in trouble.

Doesn't help when 50% of the train goes out empty. They really aren't being very efficient with that ride. Heck, last time I was there Astro Orbitors had a lesser wait than the PeopleMover.
 

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