Disney Genie and Genie+ at Walt Disney World

[FromMaldonia]

Theres no chance you get 3 good Genie(-) selections at HS, Epcot and AK......Its just not possible

This is a completely ridiculous statement

This isn't really only in reply to Jeff as it's a common complaint. It seems like the FP+ vs Genie+ comparison is often forgetting the FP+ tiers. I know the rides in each tier shifted from time to time. But in early 2020 at Hollywood Studios you could get 1 "good ride" (i.e. really worthy of a fastpass) and then the other 2 "best" options were Star Tours and Frozen sing-a-long.

So should Disney bring back tiers? The main frustration is the lack of availability (which also impacts the available times changing during selection). It seems Disney knew the constraints previously and used tiers. Perhaps they thought charging $15 would similarly reduce demand but were wrong and don't want to raise the price.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

This isn't really only in reply to Jeff as it's a common complaint. It seems like the FP+ vs Genie+ comparison is often forgetting the FP+ tiers. I know the rides in each tier shifted from time to time. But in early 2020 at Hollywood Studios you could get 1 "good ride" (i.e. really worthy of a fastpass) and then the other 2 "best" options were Star Tours and Frozen sing-a-long.

So should Disney bring back tiers? The main frustration is the lack of availability (which also impacts the available times changing during selection). It seems Disney knew the constraints previously and used tiers. Perhaps they thought charging $15 would similarly reduce demand but were wrong and don't want to raise the price.

HAHAHAHA!!! LOL!

 

[Patcheslee]

This isn't really only in reply to Jeff as it's a common complaint. It seems like the FP+ vs Genie+ comparison is often forgetting the FP+ tiers. I know the rides in each tier shifted from time to time. But in early 2020 at Hollywood Studios you could get 1 "good ride" (i.e. really worthy of a fastpass) and then the other 2 "best" options were Star Tours and Frozen sing-a-long.

So should Disney bring back tiers? The main frustration is the lack of availability (which also impacts the available times changing during selection). It seems Disney knew the constraints previously and used tiers. Perhaps they thought charging $15 would similarly reduce demand but were wrong and don't want to raise the price.

Personally feel like the ILLs are the new Tier 1's. People already can't reride, throw in Tiers to the Genie+ rides as well, the value would be considered less. Or less people would use it due to even more constraints. At least with FP once you used the 3 original, there was the possibility for another tier 1.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

This isn't really only in reply to Jeff as it's a common complaint. It seems like the FP+ vs Genie+ comparison is often forgetting the FP+ tiers. I know the rides in each tier shifted from time to time. But in early 2020 at Hollywood Studios you could get 1 "good ride" (i.e. really worthy of a fastpass) and then the other 2 "best" options were Star Tours and Frozen sing-a-long.

So should Disney bring back tiers? The main frustration is the lack of availability (which also impacts the available times changing during selection). It seems Disney knew the constraints previously and used tiers. Perhaps they thought charging $15 would similarly reduce demand but were wrong and don't want to raise the price.

That's true. Epcot and HS just don't have enough total attractions, and especially not enough tier 1 attractions to make either FP+ or G+ work very well.

Towards the end of FP+, as I posted earlier, the way to get around this was to not pre-book 3 FP. (Or else modify/cancel them aggressively once you used the first one.)

For Epcot, WDW will - hopefully - change Rat to G+ once the new ride opens.

The important fix that needs to happen though is that the times need to be locked during selection process. If you are offered a 10am pass, then you ought to get like a 5min allowance to choose it. Period.

 

[Disney4Lyfe]

If you are offered a 10am pass, then you ought to get like a 5min allowance to choose it. Period.

So often I had to cancel a LL because the time change was so ludicrous. 6 hour swings.

 

[CatesMom]

I backed out of tons of potential LL choices before the final selection page because the time had changed. I also made and canceled several LL's when I decided (hoped) that I could find something that better fit our plans. The one time (out of six days) that my ILL changed times after purchase, I was able to change it back through the chat feature on the app.

 

[FromMaldonia]

HAHAHAHA!!! LOL!

Honestly, I do expect the price to go up. It probably has to. Right now the system is "trying" to give a fast pass for every ride to everyone willing to spend $15. I know it's not really trying to do that but that's ostensibly what it does and is what people are expecting. If not every ride, at least 3 or more top tier rides. The numbers don't work. I assume Disney decided on $15 for a reason and may be reluctant to raise it. So the alternative is limit what can be reserved by each guest...which is already what's happening but in a way that just makes everyone upset and requires warnings before purchasing. It's like Genie+ is an experiment to prove that Universal's express pass price point is correct.

 

[FromMaldonia]

Personally feel like the ILLs are the new Tier 1's. People already can't reride, throw in Tiers to the Genie+ rides as well, the value would be considered less. Or less people would use it due to even more constraints. At least with FP once you used the 3 original, there was the possibility for another tier 1.

Completely agree it would be used less and the value would be considered less. You could argue that's already the value though because most can't get LLs for multiple top tier rides. Many on this board can by all the ways mentioned (refreshing a lot, watching for drops of new LLs, etc.) There will always be the power users that do the research, put in the time, and know how to make the most of the system. Most people weren't getting that extra tier 1 FP+ ride either.

 

[FromMaldonia]

That's true. Epcot and HS just don't have enough total attractions, and especially not enough tier 1 attractions to make either FP+ or G+ work very well.

Towards the end of FP+, as I posted earlier, the way to get around this was to not pre-book 3 FP. (Or else modify/cancel them aggressively once you used the first one.)

For Epcot, WDW will - hopefully - change Rat to G+ once the new ride opens.

The important fix that needs to happen though is that the times need to be locked during selection process. If you are offered a 10am pass, then you ought to get like a 5min allowance to choose it. Period.

Yep, I believe we all agree capacity vs attendance is the problem. The Defunctland video about the history of fastpass posted earlier in this thread is so great, and really makes it clear that none of the fastpass implementations have been very good. Each works better for a particular set of guests with their goals and touring styles, but are a net negative across all guests and rides.

I don't know that locking time selections is feasible. There are probably hundreds (if not thousands) of people looking at the exact same options for Slinky Dog at 7:00am. How can you allow all of them 5 minutes to select the exact same time slot? I think of it this way: Genie+ is just an electronic/mobile version of paper fastpass. The rules are the same -- one at a time with a 2hr rule. The difference is there was a physical constraint of walking to kiosks to get your fastpass. It's not possible for half the people in the park to do that at the same time. And if you are in a line of 500 people at a kiosk you are not all getting them in the same minute. You are waiting your turn and watching the return time posted above the kiosk ticking forward as you approach the front of the line. It's the same thing but it all happens in a couple seconds. It's a worse, more frustrating experience for us at 7am, but from a cold-hearted park operations point of view, it's the same. We've traded in walking to kiosks (and carrying around paper tickets) for a more lottery type drawing of the actual time slot awarded.

 

[mikejs78]

Yep, I believe we all agree capacity vs attendance is the problem. The Defunctland video about the history of fastpass posted earlier in this thread is so great, and really makes it clear that none of the fastpass implementations have been very good. Each works better for a particular set of guests with their goals and touring styles, but are a net negative across all guests and rides.

I don't know that locking time selections is feasible. There are probably hundreds (if not thousands) of people looking at the exact same options for Slinky Dog at 7:00am. How can you allow all of them 5 minutes to select the exact same time slot? I think of it this way: Genie+ is just an electronic/mobile version of paper fastpass. The rules are the same -- one at a time with a 2hr rule. The difference is there was a physical constraint of walking to kiosks to get your fastpass. It's not possible for half the people in the park to do that at the same time. And if you are in a line of 500 people at a kiosk you are not all getting them in the same minute. You are waiting your turn and watching the return time posted above the kiosk ticking forward as you approach the front of the line. It's the same thing but it all happens in a couple seconds. It's a worse, more frustrating experience for us at 7am, but from a cold-hearted park operations point of view, it's the same. We've traded in walking to kiosks (and carrying around paper tickets) for a more lottery type drawing of the actual time slot awarded.

They did it for FP+. If you selected a time, it didn't change it on you once you confirmed. Doesn't have to be 5 minutes either. How about 1 minute? Or 30 seconds?

The old FP times never jumped 6 hours in 15 seconds. This ends up being a very poor guest experience.

 

[LittleBuford]

They did it for FP+. If you selected a time, it didn't change it on you once you confirmed. Doesn't have to be 5 minutes either. How about 1 minute? Or 30 seconds?

The old FP times never jumped 6 hours in 15 seconds. This ends up being a very poor guest experience.

Many, and perhaps most, reservation services hold your selection for you until you confirm. It’s the norm because it’s good customer service. Why Disney has abandoned a standard practice that they themselves used to follow is beyond me.

 

[FromMaldonia]

They did it for FP+. If you selected a time, it didn't change it on you once you confirmed. Doesn't have to be 5 minutes either. How about 1 minute? Or 30 seconds?

The old FP times never jumped 6 hours in 15 seconds. This ends up being a very poor guest experience.

I don't know the stats and can only guess. I also don't know for sure if the reservations never changed out from under you with FP+. It seems likely there were significantly fewer people attempting to reserve the same ride at the same time 60 days in advance compared to now at 7am the day of. It used to be only on-site guests already booked and awake and ready when reservations became available -- then spread out over all of the time slots throughout the day. Now it's everyone going to the park that day (that paid for Genie+) and awake and ready. Perhaps it's not as different as I think and they could still hold the reservation for 30 seconds. That would certainly help. It wouldn't surprise me though if you would just end up with 2000 people with a 9:05am lightning lane.

 

[nickys]

For FP+ they only initially offered you three times spread through the day. You could then click “show more times” to get extra times showing. And the time you selected was what you got.

Even on the day, what you selected was what you got. Just like when booking theatre tickets or (seated) concert tickets, a system can easily hold a selection for a certain amount of time.

I suspect this was rushed in without enough testing. So although they knew they hadn’t put that feature in, they hadn’t fully appreciated how bad the time jumps would end up being until they had thousands of people trying it for real.

 

[FeelsSoGoodToBeBad]

It seems to me that the wild swings in return times would be more palatable if there was a "modify" option to the selections, vs having to cancel and rebook for a more desirable time, which runs a distinct possibility that you lose out entirely when you try.

 

[IMDREW]

If I get the Genie+ for Magic Kingdom and then hop over to Animal Kingdom, can I use it there as well? Or does the $15 get you one park?

 

[mikejs78]

If I get the Genie+ for Magic Kingdom and then hop over to Animal Kingdom, can I use it there as well? Or does the $15 get you one park?

If you have a park Hopper ticket and you buy Genie+, you can reserve a LL in any park. For parks where you don't have a park reservation (i.e. the parks you will hop to) the only return times that show up are after 2 PM.

One strategy people have used is to not get any LLs in your first park, then use the 2 hour rule to stack a bunch of LLs for your second park.

Or, you can get a few LLs at MK in the morning (pretty easy as MK has the most rides), then before you leave MK once you use your last LL, reserve something in the afternoon over at AK.

 

[dreday3]

If anyone is there or following crowds this week - let me know how crowd levels/availability looks? This is the week we are looking at next year. The week after Easter and I thought it wouldn't be so crowded, but park reservations are gone for a lot for resort guests.

thanks!

 

[mikejs78]

If anyone is there or following crowds this week - let me know how crowd levels/availability looks? This is the week we are looking at next year. The week after Easter and I thought it wouldn't be so crowded, but park reservations are gone for a lot for resort guests.

thanks!

It's weird. Park reservations are full but I know someone there now who says crowds aren't too bad. TouringPlans seems to back that up. You can check out actual historical crowd level for any date at their historical crowd calendar. They post what the actual crowd level was at any park for any date the next day. If you look at a comparison between the week before Easter and the week after Easter, heading into this past weekend, you can see a downward trend.

Historical Disney World Crowds

touringplans.com

 

[dreday3]

It's weird. Park reservations are full but I know someone there now who says crowds aren't too bad. TouringPlans seems to back that up. You can check out actual historical crowd level for any date at their historical crowd calendar. They post what the actual crowd level was at any park for any date the next day. If you look at a comparison between the week before Easter and the week after Easter, heading into this past weekend, you can see a downward trend.

Historical Disney World Crowds

touringplans.com

Thanks! Also, next year may be different in terms of crowds because people have "calmed down" getting their covid trips in. At least that's my hope.

 

[Disney4Lyfe]

For parks where you don't have a park reservation (i.e. the parks you will hop to) the only return times that show up are after 2 PM.

This wasn’t true for me. Fwiw.