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Disney Genie, Genie+ officially introduced along with confirmed details of how it will work

"El Magnifico"

Premium Member
It has nothing to do with sleeping in or being lazy. We sometimes choose to go to a water park or swim at the resort pool (or do something else that's fun for us), then go to a theme park in the afternoon. It was nice when we could schedule FP+ rides later in the day. A few each day were okay for us - we don't need to "keep riding more rides," but we did like being guaranteed that we could ride the ones we wanted when we wanted. Genie+ is a big step down for us.

I enjoy non-park days as much (if not more) than my park days.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Fast pass was introduced in 1999. Since that time by any measurable metric, attendance, revenue, the parks have done nothing buy have massive growth and success. You have an awfully weird, and unsupportable way of defining breaking things.
I know this is a really difficult concept for people, but popularity does not equal quality. It's a childish argument.

The parks were designed to facilitate a certain kind of guest behavior. Every public area, from queues to restaurants to walkways to shops, were built to enable the parks to operate in a particular way. Line-skipping is directly counter to that particular way. For line-skipping to work, you would have to redesign the parks from the ground up, and completely alter how guests think and behave. To their credit, Universal realized this VERY QUICKLY and scrapped the half-baked virtual line system put in place for Fallon, Fast, and VB. Disney won't give up. When you use something in a manner for which it was not designed and in the process cause it to operate inefficiently or not at all, yes, you broke it.

If you can look at the parks right now and think things are hunky-dory, I seriously question your judgement.
 

Thepuma

Active Member
Can someone run by me how the FP+ system wasn't working but apparently the Genie one is?

I absolutely loved the FP+ system but when I say that people saw it was a disaster and wasn't working?

Yet some how,.if you charge for it, it magically works.
 

disneygeek90

Premium Member
And for us, we love being able to get what we pay for, upgrade where we want, and get advantages over lazy people who don't want to put in the effort and would rather sleep in. So you keep sleeping in late, and we will keep riding more rides.
I mean, it's all relative. Before WDW started forcing everyone to be up at 7am to book reservations and boarding groups, some would rather sleep in and then stay out all night. After all, nights are superior in Florida especially when trying to beat the summer heat. I'm sure there's not many that can stay open to close every day regardless.

I'm a night owl myself. I like evenings in the parks after people start to head out the most.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Genie+ is flawed in that it is still giving out all capacity as quickly as people will take it. That is why the thing breaks down.

The whole advantage of removing the scheduled portion of FP+ was to enable an adhoc experience where guests could be steered based on what is happening 'now'. It removed the burdens of advanced plans and their constraints while making it so everyone (not just those who book the furthest in advance) would have opportunity at passes.

If you don't ensure there is adhoc opportunities - you basically just stripped the system down and took away what some liked about FP+ without giving them anything in return.

I would like to see them simply not give out Genie+ reservations for anything more than 2hrs away. That way you can setup a place where people use standby first, except for things you're willing to invest in, and you commit to that reservation when it comes free. By limiting how much you give out in advance, you undo this 'must stay all day' thing, you give people lots more opportunities, and most importantly you drive an adhoc experience.
 

wutisgood

Well-Known Member
I know this is a really difficult concept for people, but popularity does not equal quality. It's a childish argument.

The parks were designed to facilitate a certain kind of guest behavior. Every public area, from queues to restaurants to walkways to shops, were built to enable the parks to operate in a particular way. Line-skipping is directly counter to that particular way. For line-skipping to work, you would have to redesign the parks from the ground up, and completely alter how guests think and behave. To their credit, Universal realized this VERY QUICKLY and scrapped the half-baked virtual line system put in place for Fallon, Fast, and VB. Disney won't give up. When you use something in a manner for which it was not designed and in the process cause it to operate inefficiently or not at all, yes, you broke it.

If you can look at the parks right now and think things are hunky-dory, I seriously question your judgement.
The fact that mediocre rides like seven dwarfs or slinky dog are driving revenue on intentionally limited capacity is insane. Cedar point wouldn't dare put in a hugely popular ride that could only move under 1k per hour guests. The popularity of these rides at disney is that guests are starved for literally anything at all to do. I think some good flat rides would actually eat into the slinky dog capacity.

There is no park more than disney where mediocre rides can last forever just because of capacity issues. Would small world be a ride even at a cheap park if it was cheap to run? not a chance.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
The fact that mediocre rides like seven dwarfs or slinky dog are driving revenue on intentionally limited capacity is insane. Cedar point wouldn't dare put in a hugely popular ride that could only move under 1k per hour guests. The popularity of these rides at disney is that guests are starved for literally anything at all to do. I think some good flat rides would actually eat into the slinky dog capacity.

There is no park more than disney where mediocre rides can last forever just because of capacity issues. Would small world be a ride even at a cheap park if it was cheap to run? not a chance.
Umm, what exactly do you think TTD averages? Also I know it’s now gone but Wicked Twister never won capacity awards either.
 

wutisgood

Well-Known Member
Umm, what exactly do you think TTD averages? Also I know it’s now gone but Wicked Twister never won capacity awards either.
1000 per hour but Cedar point will let a four hour line ride after park close on TTD because they care about their guests. Wicked twister was a small footprint and nice to have availible.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Can someone run by me how the FP+ system wasn't working but apparently the Genie one is?

I absolutely loved the FP+ system but when I say that people saw it was a disaster and wasn't working?

Yet some how,.if you charge for it, it magically works.
Well, for us we were only allowed, by the rules of FP+, to make them 7 days in advance and for a maximum of 4 days. So if we needed 5 or 6 days in the park we would have to wait to book those days after we had already used our first couple of days. When trying to find FP+ for 3 people FOP, Navi, SDMT, Frozen, SDD, Alien Saucers were already sold out. Safaris, Splash, BTMRR, Jungle Cruise would only have availability for after 5PM. TSMM, ToT and RnRC would be hit or miss. We don't do Space, TT or Soarin regularly so I don't remember availability for those anymore, but it wasn't that great either. Sounds pretty crappy, doesn't it?

This system allows us to access to some of those attractions, the same as the rest of you, because we can actually make them at the same time as you, instead of 53+10 days later compared to on-site or 23 days later than off-site. This system allows anyone who can't plan in advance, or didn't know they HAVE to have the same access as the 60 day people and the 30 day people. Because, guess what, we spend a lot of money too. And apparently Disney agreed we should (minus the stuff that sells out between 7AM and park opening).

Note: I am still on team Standby Only, but of the two PITA systems, this one will work better for us because we are actually allowed to use it when times are still available to be booked.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
1000 per hour but Cedar point will let a four hour line ride after park close on TTD because they care about their guests. Wicked twister was a small footprint and nice to have availible.
Disney offers the same courtesy (soft close,) only two parks I know that do a hard close are Holiday World and Canobie Lake.
 

wutisgood

Well-Known Member
Disney offers the same courtesy (soft close,) only two parks I know that do a hard close are Holiday World and Canobie Lake.
I have seen disney close ride lines before park close. I never saw cedar point do this apart from the limited time they did this during covid and annoyed it before staffing got better.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Umm, what exactly do you think TTD averages? Also I know it’s now gone but Wicked Twister never won capacity awards either.
Those are outliers cause for the most part the majority of the big rides they add are people eaters. Either way Cedar Point does have something that DHS, AK, and Epcot wish they did have. That is lot of attractions. Cedar Point has over 70 rides.
 

wutisgood

Well-Known Member
Those are outliers cause for the most part the majority of the big rides they add are people eaters. Either way Cedar Point does have something that DHS, AK, and Epcot wish they did have. That is lot of attractions. Cedar Point has over 70 rides.
There is no park in existence as far as I know with the sheer people eating capacity of cedar point.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I know this is a really difficult concept for people, but popularity does not equal quality. It's a childish argument.

The parks were designed to facilitate a certain kind of guest behavior. Every public area, from queues to restaurants to walkways to shops, were built to enable the parks to operate in a particular way. Line-skipping is directly counter to that particular way. For line-skipping to work, you would have to redesign the parks from the ground up, and completely alter how guests think and behave. To their credit, Universal realized this VERY QUICKLY and scrapped the half-baked virtual line system put in place for Fallon, Fast, and VB. Disney won't give up. When you use something in a manner for which it was not designed and in the process cause it to operate inefficiently or not at all, yes, you broke it.

If you can look at the parks right now and think things are hunky-dory, I seriously question your judgement.
The last decade has also seen a tourism boom. Little places in the middle of nowhere that haven’t changed in decades have become overrun with tourists. Some places are trying to discourage tourism because it has become too much.

But here’s another question, if current Disney really has their finger on the pulse of what people want why is the least contemporary park at Walt Disney World the most popular? Why isn’t the most recently expanded, with one of the biggest properties ever, not the park that people are considering their prime destination? Of course even if Disney’s Hollywood Studios was the park to visit and was filling up every day it would likely remain the least visited park at Walt Disney World.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
The last decade has also seen a tourism boom. Little places in the middle of nowhere that haven’t changed in decades have become overrun with tourists. Some places are trying to discourage tourism because it has become too much.

But here’s another question, if current Disney really has their finger on the pulse of what people want why is the least contemporary park at Walt Disney World the most popular? Why isn’t the most recently expanded, with one of the biggest properties ever, not the park that people are considering their prime destination? Of course even if Disney’s Hollywood Studios was the park to visit and was filling up every day it would likely remain the least visited park at Walt Disney World.

When I went to Magic Kingdom in October I overhead a woman say "that's the best ride in the park!" after getting off Big Thunder.

What she loved most in that park was a 40+ year old roller coaster with no movie tie in whatsoever.

What people want is entertaining experiences, not just recognizable characters or call outs to the ever fickle popular culture. There's a reason why WDSP is the least visited Disney theme park despite being an all-IP park with 7 Pixar rides.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
When I went to Magic Kingdom in October I overhead a woman say "that's the best ride in the park!" after getting off Big Thunder.

What she loved most in that park was a 40+ year old roller coaster with no movie tie in whatsoever.

What people want is entertaining experiences, not just recognizable characters or call outs to the ever fickle popular culture. There's a reason why WDSP is the least visited Disney theme park despite being an all-IP park with 7 Pixar rides.
It's why I loved Epcot so much when I was a kid and why I remember that more the most.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
The last decade has also seen a tourism boom. Little places in the middle of nowhere that haven’t changed in decades have become overrun with tourists. Some places are trying to discourage tourism because it has become too much.

But here’s another question, if current Disney really has their finger on the pulse of what people want why is the least contemporary park at Walt Disney World the most popular? Why isn’t the most recently expanded, with one of the biggest properties ever, not the park that people are considering their prime destination? Of course even if Disney’s Hollywood Studios was the park to visit and was filling up every day it would likely remain the least visited park at Walt Disney World.
This is the power of what the old guard built. I have wondered what would happen when things like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise didn't exist anymore. And unfortunately, I think we're closer to that day than we think. Not because of Disney, but because of people. The changes to Pirates and Jungle Cruise were due to the presentation being considered "no longer appropriate." We have seen people wonder about the body in the Stretching Elevator. One day these changes may not even be enough for parents to think that the presentation is inappropriate and demand the removal of these attractions completely.

It's important for new rides to be as beloved as the old stuff, and for me they just aren't. The lack of whimsy and charm, lack of music, too much reliance on screen technology, it ages them all in a way that practical scenery hasn't. It's not because the IP isn't strong enough, it's the execution. Too many attractions feel like they are just "theme park rides" and not attempts at transporting people to someplace different. I think movies and television suffer the same problem. The ones built with scenery, costumes, cinematography that wins Oscars vs green screens and digital effects that are entertaining at the time, but then show their age as the world moves on. Real places are simply more real. It's hard to quantify, but I believe people feel it.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
This is the power of what the old guard built. I have wondered what would happen when things like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise didn't exist anymore.

Well the parks would suffer for a number of reasons, but if these particular rides were replaced with shorter, lower capacity ones the park would be even more unbearable.

The changes to Pirates and Jungle Cruise were due to the presentation being considered "no longer appropriate." We have seen people wonder about the body in the Stretching Elevator. One day these changes may not even be enough for parents to think that the presentation is inappropriate and demand the removal of these attractions completely.

Given how many decades these rides have lasted, I think this is an unfounded fear. I don't believe many guests really care that much about how problematic any of these rides may seem to some. The continued lines for Splash Mountain are a strong indicator that such analysis of these attractions is found mainly in hyper-focused online discussions, often by people who don't visit the parks.

Disney may continue to make tweaks here and there to satisfy their own ego, but a wholesale removal of these key rides which continue to inspire merch and media is unlikely. If for no other reason than the cost of total repeal and replace would be prohibitive.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Disney theme parks used to be based on real places and real history. You weren't going on a "ride", you were travelling to a place. The atmosphere of the Jungle Cruise's indoor temple scene is palpable and so much more "real" than any 3D screen next to a track.

This is exactly why I like Na'vi River Journey so much more than other people seem to.

It feels like you've travelled to a rain forest on an alien planet. Of course the ride has flaws, but it nails what I consider the most fundamental part of a ride (or at least of that type of ride) -- that sense of travelling to a place. I think it's better than most (not all) of the other rides Disney has built this century solely because of that.
 
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