Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Crowding was nowhere near as bad in 1990, let alone 1972.
And how much has ACTUAL capacity, attraction, restaurant, and general, increased?
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Disney Genie and Genie+ at Walt Disney World
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
And how much has ACTUAL capacity, attraction, restaurant, and general, increased?
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I would pay this. I recently called GS, waited over an hour, got the wrong department, and was transferred and disconnected. All prompted by an IT failure on Disney’s end.
el_super
Well-Known Member
These two statements don't agree... you can't have an attraction that does not induce demand, but also relieves capacity. Capacity is useless if it isn't used (See: Carousel of Progress).
No I don't think that Tron will reduce the wait time for Pirates, and that's exactly the point: you will still have capacity issues in the park, because people will still want to experience the "must-do" attractions. Except now you have slightly more people in the park to see the new ride too. Assuming people are still spending the same time in the park, and experiecing the same number of attractions, all you do by adding new attractions is make the already underperforming attractions even less relevant.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Disneyland announced they were adding new rides to combat the long lines ... in 1956. It's always been a problem.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
You can't tell me that adding new attractions to AK, DHS and Epcot wouldn't do anything. Those 3 parks don't have enough attractions
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Crowding is a relative function. 100 people in a small building is crowded, but not in an arena. It’s also distinct from capacity. If you have 100 people and only 60 seats, adding more seats will result in more people being seating. In the first small space having more seats for those 100 people can also make it less crowded even though the physical space has remained constant because how people use space impacts the perception of crowding.
You are conflicting terms. Inducing demand means attracting new/additional visitors to the park, not attracting people to the attraction itself.
If your claim was anywhere close to true the queue for the Indiana Jones Adventure would still be sneaking around Disneyland the way it did in the summer of 1995. The demand spread back out into the rest of the park. People made substitutions. Demand didn’t just sit at the new thing until Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters opened.
flynnibus
Premium Member
By your logic - the solution to reducing crowding is to remove rides.. as that will 1:1 reduce demand. And we know that it doesn't work that way.
This idea of 'attractions do not create capacity because they increase demand' is an abuse of a concept and tries to make it 1:1 and permanent. It's just not real.
Never mind we already work in a world where Disney limits park attendance - so you can increase attraction capacity without increasing park attendance... but don't let that get in the way of your forever debunked over-generalized campaign against expanding the roster.
Your comments about under performing attractions are just trying to muddy the water - it's tangental to the point about expanding the attraction capacity and creating more demand.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
This is backwards. The number of attractions added hasn't kept up with the attendance increase; capacity is much lower across the board relative to attendance. They also haven't added enough dining capacity etc. to keep up either.
Adding attractions/capacity shifts demand; it doesn't create enough new demand to overwhelm the additional capacity.
Ayla
Well-Known Member
I have a question about purchasing a ticket and adding Genie+.
I am buying my Mother a Disney ticket for Christmas for our upcoming Spring trip. Do I need to add Genie+ when I purchase the ticket (I am not sure if they will be using it, but will know for sure by the time I purchase it).
The ticket will probably be a 4 day ticket and is there a benefit to adding Genie+ at the time of purchase versus buying each day? To me, it seems easier to add at the time of purchase, just to bypass the extra step before 7am.
(Unfortunately, I control her MDE, so I'll be the one having to do all the Genie+ stuff for her each day, even though I won't be in any of the parks.
)
ETA: I know if I purchase with ticket, I have to add it for all days of ticket, vs buying it each day while there.
I am buying my Mother a Disney ticket for Christmas for our upcoming Spring trip. Do I need to add Genie+ when I purchase the ticket (I am not sure if they will be using it, but will know for sure by the time I purchase it).
The ticket will probably be a 4 day ticket and is there a benefit to adding Genie+ at the time of purchase versus buying each day? To me, it seems easier to add at the time of purchase, just to bypass the extra step before 7am.
(Unfortunately, I control her MDE, so I'll be the one having to do all the Genie+ stuff for her each day, even though I won't be in any of the parks.
)ETA: I know if I purchase with ticket, I have to add it for all days of ticket, vs buying it each day while there.
el_super
Well-Known Member
They've spent billions in the last decade adding attractions to AK, DHS and Epcot. So are the crowding problems at MK fixed now?
They won't be because people still want to see the Magic Kingdom because it's the classic Disney experience. People spend $10k on a vacation to have their picture taken in front of the castle. Pandora and Star Wars are just a bonus.
Texas84
Well-Known Member
Yes. Even if you are staying onsite.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Which is why I find it distressing that all these posters think the parks are broken because of Genie+… no the parks are broken because they are all under built for demand and especially so if you visit during a holiday. No system was going to make Thanksgiving ‘magical’.
Chi84
Premium Member
Is that the way the system is set up - is there some official word on it - or just what a poster experienced? I thought it was supposed to be available at midnight.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I agree they are under built. Whats also true is that's not getting fixed anytime soon. It's why I say the only temporary fix is limit Genie+
Texas84
Well-Known Member
It was discussed here and that's what I personally experienced on my recent visit. Had to wait until 0700 every day. The app even told me my ticket wasn't eligible to buy in advance. I'm Platinum.
el_super
Well-Known Member
This whole analogy doesn't translate to the theme park world though. If you have 160 people that want to see the Haunted Mansion, and you tell 60 of them that they have to see TRON instead, would they accept that Tron is an adequate substitute?
It rests on the idea that all theme park attractions are equal. That one experience can be substituted for another. That's not really how it works though.
The point still stands. You can't simultaneously have a ride that is so great it reduces the demand for the other attractions, but also doesn't attract a crowd on it's own. That's not how attractions work.
Yeah, but here we are some 25 years later, still complaining about crowding in the parks. Indy is still (one of) the most popular rides at Disneyland. For all the capacity added at Disneyland, you would think that things like reservations and Fastpass wouldn't be needed, but that isn't true at all.
Is there any example of a time where adding new attractions fixed the crowding problems? Like ever?
You couldn't even buy until 7 AM?
el_super
Well-Known Member
You really think if they started removing rides people would keep coming?
It's more nuanced than that. Sure I realize that new attractions will create more capacity, but they don't solve for the crowding problems we are seeing in the parks. To go back to the Indy example at Disneyland, when they added Indy, the lines were so long people were waiting 3+ hours to ride Indy, and not getting to see other rides in the park. Within a year of Indy opening, the PeopleMover, Skyway and Motorboats were all justifiably removed from the park, in part due to failing attendance at those attractions, all while the overall park attendance was skyrocketing.
So when you add a problem attraction like Indy you just change out capacity problems for different ones:
- Your hot new ride is attracting too many people waiting for that singular attraction
- Its attracted more people to the park, which increases wait times at the most popular attractions
- It's locked up additional demand causing the weakest performing attractions to fall off the attendance cliff
Unless you can justify the cost of the new attraction via increased revenues, what would be the point of building it? If you want to argue that you can just solve the capacity issues by increasing the pricing and keeping attendance the same, I would absolutely agree with you on that.
It's a fundamental part of the equation here. Do you really think that the MK is at 100% of ride capacity every day? You can't have a serious discussion about theme park operation without considering which under-performing attractions need to be removed.