Disney Genie, Genie+ officially introduced along with confirmed details of how it will work

Mander

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I'm old enough to remember almost the entire fan community ******** and moaning that they hated how Disney "forced" them to plan "every second" of their vacations two months in advance.

Just go to the park and get in line. You're under no obligation whatsoever to buy ILL. I hate it too, but it's easy enough to avoid.
I'd be happy if they went back to standby only. Standby when others are using G+/LL isn't quite the same.

And I can promise you never heard me complain about the previous planning. I loved that I could have a rough outline of our day ahead of time and not worry once we were there.

Somehow the combination of Genie+, park reservations, and park hopping limits just makes it all feel worse.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
I try not to use the busses for rope drop anymore since they don't run as consistently.
That I’ll give you about the consistency. We didn’t have a problem at rope drop but we waited 90+ minutes to catch a bus from AK back to Caribbean Beach at about 230 pm on Nov 1st.

The Disney buses have never been perfect, but I had never experienced that before. Nor had I ever talked to Disney Customer Experience and Disney Transport on the phone before. Ended up with 75$ in compensation from Disney as we missed a reservation elsewhere. 😒
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
I'd be happy if they went back to standby only. Standby when others are using G+/LL isn't quite the same.

And I can promise you never heard me complain about the previous planning. I loved that I could have a rough outline of our day ahead of time and not worry once we were there.

Somehow the combination of Genie+, park reservations, and park hopping limits just makes it all feel worse.
The parks were designed for standby. It’s embedded in a whole host of design decisions that can’t be changed unless you basically rebuild the parks from the ground up. Any line-skipping system very literally breaks the park. Now, maybe some systems break it in a way that benefits (or seems to benefit) a small group of guests who do the park in a very particular way, but even they likely experience the breakage as an inconvenience at some point. Disney has thrashed around through so many different line-skipping systems because they keep trying to fix a broken system by breaking it in a different way.

Standby and capacity increases. That’s it. That’s what will work in the existing parks. A line-skipping system will only work if it’s so expensive that the number of people using it is minuscule and it’s impact on the parks is negligible.
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
Ehh, this part is relative. I am a natural born rope dropper. 5:30-6:30 am wake up times are the norm for my family, so getting up every day at that time isn’t super upsetting to me as we are always there for park opening. (Once Upon a December 2019, we were even crazy enough to get up at 330 am (twice) to go wait in line with the other crazies for ROTR the week it opened 😅).

I’m guessing there are many others who won’t be bothered by the 650 am wake up, not to discount your experience.
Right there with ya! 😁👍
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Perhaps they were, but the problem is that people (myself included) don't want to wait in long queues.

This is a Disney capacity problem, though. The parks were designed for standby, but not for long waits.

With a bunch of VQs, we get the situation we've seen in recent years where everywhere in the parks are absolutely slammed with people waiting for their next FP slot, completely filling all the shops, seating areas, and walkways. However, the queues generally weren't designed to handle the number of people they're expected to handle now either.

Basically, the parks were designed for both standby only and for manageable wait times for the vast majority of attractions. As attendance has ballooned, they haven't even come close to building enough capacity to make up the difference.

A brand new park (like Epic Universe) could probably be built from the ground up to rely mostly (or entirely) on VQs, but it would probably be a giant sprawl. I don't think it's very likely to happen.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
This is a Disney capacity problem, though. The parks were designed for standby, but not for long waits.

With a bunch of VQs, we get the situation we've seen in recent years where everywhere in the parks are absolutely slammed with people waiting for their next FP slot, completely filling all the shops, seating areas, and walkways. However, the queues generally weren't designed to handle the number of people they're expected to handle now either.

Basically, the parks were designed for both standby only and for manageable wait times for the vast majority of attractions. As attendance has ballooned, they haven't even come close to building enough capacity to make up the difference.

A brand new park (like Epic Universe) could probably be built from the ground up to rely mostly (or entirely) on VQs, but it would probably be a giant sprawl. I don't think it's very likely to happen.
And I don’t really want to eliminate queues, even if that were realistic. The best, like Indy, are the first act of the ride, or the threshold into the world of the ride.

Anyway, long lines aren’t awful if they move.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
This is a Disney capacity problem, though. The parks were designed for standby, but not for long waits.
My earliest visits to the Disney parks were before any form of FP existed. I remember interminable switchbacks that would take my family ages to work our way through. We went during the British summer holidays, so "slow times" weren't a thing for us. Waits of an hour or more were not uncommon in our experience.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
This is a Disney capacity problem, though. The parks were designed for standby, but not for long waits.

With a bunch of VQs, we get the situation we've seen in recent years where everywhere in the parks are absolutely slammed with people waiting for their next FP slot, completely filling all the shops, seating areas, and walkways. However, the queues generally weren't designed to handle the number of people they're expected to handle now either.

Basically, the parks were designed for both standby only and for manageable wait times for the vast majority of attractions. As attendance has ballooned, they haven't even come close to building enough capacity to make up the difference.

A brand new park (like Epic Universe) could probably be built from the ground up to rely mostly (or entirely) on VQs, but it would probably be a giant sprawl. I don't think it's very likely to happen.
The capacity issue really an easy fix. Add a B&M hyper coaster to each park. Those things are people eaters. Another thing is stop trying to make every new attraction having to be marketable. Add a bunch of generic flat rides to each park as well.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
My earliest visits to the Disney parks were before any form of FP existed. I remember interminable switchbacks that would take my family ages to work our way through. We went during the British summer holidays, so "slow times" weren't a thing for us. Waits of an hour or more were not uncommon in our experience.

Waits of an hour were certainly possible for the headliner attractions, but most smaller attractions were walk-ons, and the ones that did have hour long waits are more likely to be 90+ minutes now.

Overall waits were far lower when I went in the 90s than they are now -- attendance is higher now, of course (and then FP+ increased wait times around the park, which was more or less proven recently instead of just being a likely theory*), but if you're suggesting the ideal system is to never have to wait more than 5-10 minutes for anything... well, I agree, but that's just not realistic/feasible for the majority of guests under any system. While some guests can get that, it makes the experience much worse for other guests because it's a zero sum game.

If capacity was actually increased to meet demand (or at least get closer to meeting it) you'd see fewer long waits.

*FP+ was great for me personally because there are a bunch of attractions I don't care about. I could just get the ones I wanted and it didn't matter if others weren't available for rides that didn't really matter to me, e.g. Toy Story Mania.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
My earliest visits to the Disney parks were before any form of FP existed. I remember interminable switchbacks that would take my family ages to work our way through. We went during the British summer holidays, so "slow times" weren't a thing for us. Waits of an hour or more were not uncommon in our experience.
People experience things differently and can rarely see past their own experience. That's why long lines are "okay as long as they're moving" to some and "interminable" to others. It's just human nature to want other people to validate your opinions by agreeing with you.

I have absolutely no desire to go back to the days before line-skipping systems. And I seriously doubt WDW is considering such a thing. I was willing to accept that FP+ didn't work for a large number of people and had to change, but the replacement isn't nearly as good and, as I said, I don't believe WDW will ever adopt an all standby system. So I'm left with paying for a system that is not good as FP+. Even so - for me and my family - it's better than going to all standby. Long waits akin to the ones you're describing are what would have me looking for another vacation spot.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Waits of an hour were certainly possible for the headliner attractions, but most smaller attractions were walk-ons, and the ones that did have hour long waits are more likely to be 90+ minutes now.

Overall waits were far lower when I went in the 90s than they are now -- attendance is higher now, of course (and then FP+ increased wait times around the park, which was more or less proven recently instead of just being a likely theory*), but if you're suggesting the ideal system is to never have to wait more than 5-10 minutes for anything... well, I agree, but that's just not realistic/feasible for the majority of guests under any system. While some guests can get that, it makes the experience much worse for other guests because it's a zero sum game.

If capacity was actually increased to meet demand (or at least get closer to meeting it) you'd see fewer long waits.

*FP+ was great for me personally because there are a bunch of attractions I don't care about. I could just get the ones I wanted and it didn't matter if others weren't available for rides that didn't really matter to me, e.g. Toy Story Mania.
Disney is never going to go back to a pre-FP model, because many guests simply don't want to wait in long queues. As for capacity, I don't believe it will or even can increase to the point necessary to truly offset today's attendance figures. The reality, then, is that line-skipping systems are here to stay and attendance is always going to outpace capacity. What this means for the long-term future I don't know, but it's clear that Disney have made a mess of things with Genie+.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Disney is never going to go back to a pre-FP model, because many guests simply don't want to wait in long queues. As for capacity, I don't believe it will or even can increase to the point necessary to truly offset today's attendance figures. The reality, then, is that line-skipping systems are here to stay and attendance is always going to outpace capacity. What this means for the long-term future I don't know, but it's clear that Disney have made a mess of things with Genie+.
We *may* be witnessing the beginnings of a reset with regards to crowds...the company is burning through good will faster than I thought possible.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Disney is never going to go back to a pre-FP model, because many guests simply don't want to wait in long queues. As for capacity, I don't believe it will or even can increase to the point necessary to truly offset today's attendance figures. The reality, then, is that line-skipping systems are here to stay and attendance is always going to outpace capacity. What this means for the long-term future I don't know, but it's clear that Disney have made a mess of things with Genie+.

Oh I agree. They're never going to catch up on capacity at this point, especially considering how much it costs/how long it takes them to build anything, and since capacity isn't high enough, lines are simply too long without some sort of system that lets people ride a couple of major attractions without a long wait.

I'm just saying it's a problem of their own making because they didn't really build much of anything for over a decade, and what they did build was often a replacement rather than an addition (and, to make things even worse, a replacement with lower capacity).

I'm not sure what they can do to fix it, but I also agree that Genie+ is a disaster and worse than FP+.
 
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Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Disney is never going to go back to a pre-FP model, because many guests simply don't want to wait in long queues. As for capacity, I don't believe it will or even can increase to the point necessary to truly offset today's attendance figures. The reality, then, is that line-skipping systems are here to stay and attendance is always going to outpace capacity. What this means for the long-term future I don't know, but it's clear that Disney have made a mess of things with Genie+.
Of course capacity could offset current attendance. I mean… unless you think potential attendance is infinite and will rise in direct relation to capacity regardless of the nature of added capacity or Disney’s promotion of that capacity.

And line-skipping systems make lines longer. If you only ride rides for which you have a line-skipping reservation, then the broken system is broken in a way that benefits you, specifically. But it makes things worse for everyone else.
 

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