Current News on the possible Disneyland's 4th Hotel

[Darkbeer1]

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2018/09/01/consequences-of-ending-disney-tax-incentive-agreements/

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Anaheim Loses Jobs and Tax Revenues, Acquires Hostile Business Environment Reputation
For starters, there’s the loss of 5,050 construction jobs, 1,150 permanent and mostly full-time jobs due to the halting of the 4th Disney hotel – not too mention the city’s loss of $25 million in net TOT revenue during the next five years and $1 billion in TOT revenue over the next 40 years.


It also sends a powerful signal to businesses that Anaheim’s investment environment is a dicey one and the city government is a fickle and unreliable partner. Governments that rip up contractual agreements based on shifting political winds or ideological vendettas is a characteristic of banana republics, and tend to discourage investment and job creation.<<

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The “They’ll Build It Anyway” Myth
Equally magical is the belief, recently articulated by Tait acolyte Patty Gaby, that Disney will “build the hotel anyway.”


Really?


Disney had entitlements to build the fourth hotel for for decades – and didn’t. When the city established the Hotel Incentive Policy to incentivize luxury hotel development, Disney brought forward a 4-Diamond project. When the city used to excuse of a minor siting shift to pull the TOT rebate, Disney halted the project.


Where in all that is there any indication Disney is going to build this hotel absent the TOT rebate policy?<<

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Disney will build a fourth hotel, there's too much money to be made to not do it. Whether they do it now or wait a while is up to them, but of course it will happen. Their current hotels run at 90%+ occupancy year round at superinflated rates. They'd be negligent to not build another one.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Disney will build a fourth hotel, there's too much money to be made to not do it. Whether they do it now or wait a while is up to them, but of course it will happen. Their current hotels run at 90%+ occupancy year round at superinflated rates. They'd be negligent to not build another one.

When?.. Where? maybe Garden Grove... What kind? Why not a Moderate, they could add more rooms (room size wouldn't be as large), not require marble counters, nor convention/business space. The staffing levels also could be reduced. That adds up to a much bigger profit, as they could charge almost as much.

Plus if the split-tax property taxes pass in 2020, then a lower cost Hotel makes more sense.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

When?.. Where? maybe Garden Grove... What kind? Why not a Moderate, they could add more rooms (room size wouldn't be as large), not require marble counters, nor convention/business space. The staffing levels also could be reduced. That adds up to a much bigger profit, as they could charge almost as much.

Plus if the split-tax property taxes pass in 2020, then a lower cost Hotel makes more sense.

Come on DB, you've been covering Disney for a long time. You know that Disney has no intention of building a hotel in Garden Grove while there's still space left on the DLR property. The Garden Grove hotel thing is the equivalent of DisneySea in Long Beach - only floated to get Anaheim to play ball.

Unlikely DLR would ever consider building a moderate when they can get $350+ a night for dumpy PPH. The market is clearly there to pay hundreds per night, so why would they waste valuable real estate on cheap hotel rooms?

 

[asianway]

Come on DB, you've been covering Disney for a long time. You know that Disney has no intention of building a hotel in Garden Grove while there's still space left on the DLR property. The Garden Grove hotel thing is the equivalent of DisneySea in Long Beach - only floated to get Anaheim to play ball.

Unlikely DLR would ever consider building a moderate when they can get $350+ a night for dumpy PPH. The market is clearly there to pay hundreds per night, so why would they waste valuable real estate on cheap hotel rooms?

No way in hell they open a moderate on their current footprint.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Come on DB, you've been covering Disney for a long time. You know that Disney has no intention of building a hotel in Garden Grove while there's still space left on the DLR property. The Garden Grove hotel thing is the equivalent of DisneySea in Long Beach - only floated to get Anaheim to play ball.

Unlikely DLR would ever consider building a moderate when they can get $350+ a night for dumpy PPH. The market is clearly there to pay hundreds per night, so why would they waste valuable real estate on cheap hotel rooms?

IF Garden Grove gives major incentives to build a 4 Diamond in Garden Grove, Disney is ready. They can easily design a special drop off area for the high end shuttles that would take guests to/from the new property.

And when the Disney executives do the math to both build and operate a hotel, the building costs are spread over many years of operation. Costs of operation include Labor (not just wages, but all the other employer costs) and taxes.

If I can build a 1,400 room Moderate at less cost than a 700 room 4 Diamond, have less overall labor (or even break even). Say you could get $500 for a 4 Diamond room, but $399 for a themed moderate room, That is a lot more profit for a lot less risk. And if there is a drop in the economy, 3 star Hotel rooms are easier to sell.

But then, why build Hotels? Maybe a water park could make the company more money?

 

[Darkbeer1]

Forgot to add one big selling point. If Disney builds in Garden Grove, the could build a large Vacation Club wing to the property, which would help fund construction, and bring additional revenues to the company's bottom line.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Okay.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Maybe a water park could make the company more money?

Water parks are disgusting, unless you like sharing water infected by pee and fecal matter.

 

[Disneylover152]

https://www.google.com/search?safe=...bp=htl;jobs#htidocid=uLnAQ-Z6p1B-GhAeAAAAAA==

Well Earl of Sandwich is hiring in Anaheim. Either they are moving back into Downtown Disney or they found another location in Anaheim.

 

[eddie104]

Water parks are disgusting, unless you like sharing water infected by pee and fecal matter.

Okay you don’t like Water Parks doesn’t mean they aren’t money makers and extend the stay of the guests at your resort property.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

SoCal isn't the best weather-wise for water parks. There are big chunks of the year where it's just cool enough for a water park to be uncomfortable, and that means it would need to be seasonally operated. Disney isn't going to build something they can't run all year. The other option would for it to be all indoors, which would be too limiting for a full park concept. It's unlikely we'll ever see a Disney water park at DLR.

 

[Disney Irish]

SoCal isn't the best weather-wise for water parks. There are big chunks of the year where it's just cool enough for a water park to be uncomfortable, and that means it would need to be seasonally operated. Disney isn't going to build something they can't run all year. The other option would for it to be all indoors, which would be too limiting for a full park concept. It's unlikely we'll ever see a Disney water park at DLR.

Well if the last couple of years are any prediction of future weather patterns in Anaheim, then you could have almost a year round water park. Not that I'd believe they'd ever build one. But the fact that you have had 80s in December for past 2 years, gives pause to the notion that you can't have a year round water park.

Also why would having an indoor park be too limiting? Great Wolf has made an entire business out of it.

 

[eddie104]

SoCal isn't the best weather-wise for water parks. There are big chunks of the year where it's just cool enough for a water park to be uncomfortable, and that means it would need to be seasonally operated. Disney isn't going to build something they can't run all year. The other option would for it to be all indoors, which would be too limiting for a full park concept. It's unlikely we'll ever see a Disney water park at DLR.

I think it depends on the location. Nobody is building a Water Park in Big Bear Lake and also people act like it’s the Northeast or Midwest in SoCal when it comes to Winter.

 

[DanielBB8]

Disney needs an indoor water park. Put a roof on it with heated water. The lower overnight temperatures are already lowering the pool water temperature. It’ll slowly get worse.

 

[EvilChameleon]

What land does Disney own in Garden Grove?

 

[Darkbeer1]

What land does Disney own in Garden Grove?

Currently none, but the city of Garden Grove has multiple plots of land available on Harbor for Disney to buy, more than likely at a reduced price with very little red tape.

 

[DanielBB8]

Forgot to add one big selling point. If Disney builds in Garden Grove, the could build a large Vacation Club wing to the property, which would help fund construction, and bring additional revenues to the company's bottom line.

DVC should be categorized as Deluxe, not Moderate, since it has larger rooms and typically are 1, 2, and 3 bedrooms like a condo. Moderate hotels really applies to single room suites and are just a step up from Economy. I would expect Disney to build a Deluxe quality hotel, which are a step below Luxury, at Disneyland Resort if they choose to move ahead. Then at Garden Grove, they can build Luxury hotel rooms with DVC that could be sold as Deluxe suites. They aren’t cheap if sold individually at a travel site. They should start at $400 a night and move up quickly for a 1, 2, or 3 bedroom. This is the pricing at Aulani, which is not a Luxury hotel.

 

[Rich T]

So....in the short-term, what happens to all the now-wasted space at that end of Downtown Disney? Pixar Friends Flea Market?

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I can tell you with absolute insider certainty that Disney is not considering building a hotel in Garden Grove. They said that to put pressure on Anaheim. You can believe me or not, but a little critical thinking here goes a long way. Why would anyone wanna pay $600 a night for a 4 diamond Disney hotel that’s NOT AT DISNEY?