News Crazy fight in Toontown

[shambolicdefending]

I have no expectation of safety anytime anywhere. Anything can happen anytime.

Important point here. No matter where we are, safety is primarily dependent on the integrity of those around us and (to a lesser degree) our own preparation.

We can debate the speed of response in a single incident like this. But, the fact is there will never be enough police or security officers in the world to respond immediately to everything. Somebody who's set on a destructive act can do an awful lot of damage in the few moments it takes even the best emergency responders to react.

Fortunately destructive people are still relatively rare in our society.

 

[Janir]

All Disney has to say is they were filming an episode of Jerry Springer-- and all is well. OMG how many years has that trash show been on?

I didn't realize that Jerry Springer was a Fox acquisition. The Jerry Springer EXPERINCE coming soon to DLR and WDW!!

 

[Nirya]

Not sure if anyone on wdwmagic is qualified to answer, but I'd be curious to know what law enforcement's take on this is.

If you take the liability and PR issues out of it, would the real police be OK with private security getting physically involved, up to the point of restraining or incapacitating the perpetrators?

And, from a public safety perspective, is Anaheim PD comfortable with the police presence they have at DLR today? Or would they prefer to have Disney budget more officers so they could respond to stuff like this more quickly?

I mean, that is the role of private security. Because they are (usually) covered by liability insurance, they are able to do things like physically restrain and detain suspects AS LONG AS it is related to their job (i.e. they’re not cruising around town acting as vigilantes). So especially in a case like this, they can assist police in apprehending suspects and providing evidence so that the police can build a criminal case.

It should be noted that a private security force is not a 1:1 swap for police. Theoretically it would lead to a quicker early response time, but actual arresting power stays with actual police officers.

 

[Tanna Eros]

Disneyland Fight Aggressors Facing Possible Criminal Charges After Video Goes Viral

Disneyland brawl may lead to criminal charges

www.yahoo.com

>>Several people in the park filmed the fight on cellphones as Disneyland employees and security scrambled to break up the incident.

The police say, "There was no video available at the time. We became aware of the video late last night. Now that we have the video, detectives will be following up to see if any criminal charges can be filed."

The video will be a key piece of evidence for investigators and say, "Now we can use the video to piece together who did what to who since none of them would cooperate at the time."

Unclear at this time how many people involved in the fight may face possible arrest.

Disney officials said of the incident, "We do not condone this behavior."<<

Their definition of 'scrambled' is a mite different from my definition.

 

[Tanna Eros]

Well, there goes 90% of this forum...

That means I can still get in the park! oh, no, wait..... I have this allergy to a common ingredient used in laundry soaps- (womp womp)

 

[Janir]

Exactly! Nobody is paying the brave guests who stepped in either! I think it's instinct and common sense to do something about a situation like that. I 100% know that my husband would have intervened the second he sees a woman being punched in the face. What is wrong with the world...?

Bad idea for him. I know that it used to be understood that men should step up to the plate and do something about an errant jackwagon, but the second he steps in, even to defend the woman in question, she will turn right around and start defending the guy she was just getting smacked by against you. Cops see that scenario on domestic abuse calls all the time. Now from your own perspective you suddenly go from a defense of others situation to a situation where you are now an aggressor in a dispute not involving you and now you get to look at assault and battery charges, all captured on film, while the woman he was going to save is now testifying against you in both a criminal AND civil court cases. Keep in mind they will be very interested in the criminal case against you as proving you were an aggressor with video and testimony so once your convicted, that conviction gets to be used against you in the civil trial when they shake you down for money.

 

[Tanna Eros]

I've seen fistfights in a ballroom between two women in expensive formal wear. Clothing choices have nothing to do with it.

I would have paid to see that. I'm Irish right down to the ground.

 

[Amidala]

Yes, that's exactly what we've been shown here.

Violent men start beating up women, and multiple managers and security guards show up and do absolutely nothing about it. The paid CM's stand around, talking into their radios and tapping at their iPhones and staring at the injured women laying on the ground and ignoring the violence playing out, while paying customers are left to fend for themselves and hopefully a few other men who paid to get in can put their own lives in danger as they try to contain the violence.

If someone in the crowd hadn't "tapped at their iPhone" we would have no video proof of the fight, and this discussion wouldn't be happening right now. The blame is on Disney for providing inadequate security and endangering its guests AND its CMs. Disney's upper management cuts corners on security, and then you expect the underpaid workers at the bottom of the totem pole to pick up the slack for them? Keep in mind, if these CMs retaliate they risk losing their jobs and source of income. So they're supposed to, what, just physically insert their bodies between the attacker and victim like a human shield and hope the attacker stops punching? Speaking from experience, CMs don't feel empowered to touch guests most of the time, let alone face one in a literal fight.

I think it's really telling that a conversation that SHOULD have been about holding Disney accountable for negligence has devolved into blaming CMs for not jumping into the middle of a fist fight. Misses the point completely.

Honestly the reality is just that this is a cultural problem. It's very likely this behavior is accepted in the community this family comes from.

"Cultural problem" implies this kind of behavior is shared by a specific group of people. What "community" are you referencing?

What really ****es me off, besides how inept the security response was, is that they sent the men home with those women. They just beat the **** out of them in public, and you sent them all home in private. I'm sure that went well. Thank God they're now "investigating".

Yeah, for sure. Hopefully the police have gotten hold of this case now, those men should have been taken in to begin with.

 

[Tanna Eros]

You’re right.



Proper clothing will definitely stop fighting.

It's the pink shirts! As soon as that guy's pink shirt got ripped off, he became normal again! Disney must ban pink men's shirts!

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Honestly I’m all for a dress code at the parks, it will never happen or even be considered though.

 

[andysol]

Honestly I’m all for a dress code at the parks, it will never happen or even be considered though.

I'll get on board with a dress code as long as the verbiage includes "no stupid writing on your shirts".

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Well, according to your list, I am not really dressed decent.

Visible tattoos? Check.
Unnatural color hair? Check
Facial piercings (because you forgot to list that)? Check

That overweight stuff though? I ain't tapping into that category.

Love how all of this defines my character as a person

Well, he thinks women should have to wear dresses to get into Disneyland. I wouldn't worry about it...

 

[sfmichaelo1]

Wheres Security and PD, why aren't they positioned through out the park? I work PT as a security supervisor/control dispatcher for the San Francisco Giants and I can tell you we have 22-30 police officers per game for 40,000 fans. We have them positioned throughout inside and outside of the ball park not including over 150 security guards and 5 bomb dogs. I don't see why such a larger place can't position 2 officers per land daily not just at the entrances but throughout. Or maybe they should look into Rapid Response Teams just like most of the stadiums currently have.

 

[Disney Analyst]

 

[Amidala]

Honestly I’m all for a dress code at the parks, it will never happen or even be considered though.

There is a dress code. Not sure where you guys have been.

"Proper attire, including shoes and shirts, must be worn at all times. The parks are a casual, family-oriented environment. Ensuring that the parks are family friendly is an important part of the Disney experience. In that spirit, we ask you to use your discretion and common sense.

Inappropriate Attire
Attire that is not appropriate for the parks—and which may result in refusal of admittance—includes but is not limited to:

• Clothing with objectionable material, including obscene language or graphics
• Excessively torn clothing
• Clothing which, by nature, exposes excessive portions of the skin that may be viewed as inappropriate for a family environment
• Clothing with multiple layers are subject to search upon entry
• Objectionable tattoos"

It mainly protects against things like obscenities and hate speech, but that hasn't stopped people at Epcot wearing shirts bragging about how drunk they're going to get.

 

[Janir]

Wheres Security and PD, why aren't they positioned through out the park? I work PT as a security supervisor/control dispatcher for the San Francisco Giants and I can tell you we have 22-30 police officers per game for 40,000 fans we have them positioned through out in outside the ball park not including over 150 security guards. I don't see why such a large place can't position 2 officers per land daily not just at the entrances but throughout. Or maybe they should look into Rapid Response Teams just like most of the stadiums currently have.

I'm surprised that they do not seem to have any Rapid Response Teams like at a sporting event ready to go at DLR. Dunno if WDW does or not, but what I've seen suggest at least a credible security response by comparison.

 

[Tanna Eros]

Yes. And that shouldn't be exclusive to men, but women also.

I'm sorry, maybe I have it wrong. Are we only supposed to fight for injustice on the politics board, Facebook or over a dining room table with our friends? How about when defenseless people are getting pummeled? Is that an adequate time?

So yes, men should be strong, brave and willing to defend the defenseless. Women should too.

I'll back you, mijo. I've had a beer bottle bopped on my head more than once. One time, reason was my friend wouldn't dance with the fellow drinking from the bottle that got bopped on my head.

 

[SSG]

This wasn't a failure in response time. The first security officer was on the scene in a bit over two minutes. You can't have security by every trash can and the park is 85 acres. Two-plus minutes is not unreasonable for security to reach a disturbance. The problem, of course, is the reaction. Or lack of.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Most people actually dress pretty decently, I’ve found. I think the price hike has helped.

Lol Okay, TROR.

 

[Amidala]

I'm surprised that they do not seem to have any Rapid Response Teams like at a sporting event ready to go at DLR. Dunno if WDW does or not, but what I've seen suggest at least a credible security response by comparison.

We were always told to call/radio Reedy Creek in the case of an emergency, not call 911. WDW essentially has its own medical & emergency response team which can be deployed and on the scene much faster than the Orlando police. I'm assuming there's no equivalent over at DL, and know security CMs there aren't empowered to actually touch guests and directly involve themselves in conflicts. Like people I have said, the response time was fine...the lack of direct action once they arrived on the scene not so much.