Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

There is so much presumption here. Many people in many states have second homes in FL or have close friends in FL. But keep on pushing this narrative that it's NY ("many" is a thinly veiled denominator, wouldn't you agree?). I wonder how much of what you're saying is based in stereotypical demographic assumptions.

Presumption? I also mentioned close friends and relatives. Have you ever been to Palm Beach County or northern Broward County? I moved down from NY to south Palm Beach County in 1990 and going to school down here felt more like some kids from FL moved to NY. Literally half of my extended family moved down to the area within the same year.

Therefore, a high number of people who live in the NYC metro area are going to have close friends or relatives in Palm Beach and Broward counties that would allow them to come and stay with them.

 

[_caleb]

The last thing I ever expected was for this thing to become yet another political divide. It didn't take even 2 pages for me to realize that we were absolutely screwed.

Yes. And looking back (with the benefit of hindsight), we can see that all the bad opinions and political ideologies were laid out from the beginning.

Can we go back and add a TL;DR to the 2nd page?

“And the rest of this thread is just a loop of these 2 pages that starts back up when the COVID news/numbers are released each day.”

 

[Parker in NYC]

Presumption? I also mentioned close friends and relatives. Have you ever been to Palm Beach County or northern Broward County? I moved down from NY to south Palm Beach County in 1990 and going to school down here felt more like some kids from FL moved to NY. Literally half of my extended family moved down to the area within the same year.

Therefore, a high number of people who live in the NYC metro area are going to have close friends or relatives in Palm Beach and Broward counties that would allow them to come and stay with them.

I want numbers. Without numbers, your hyperbole is useless. Have you read the rest of this thread? Without numbers and facts, you have disregarded quite a bit.

 

[_caleb]

To be fair, the worst offenders are now mostly MIA.

The avatars may have changed, but the arguments really haven’t.

And I’m pretty sure some who are posting now under one account did so previously under another account.

But I will say how much respect I have for the (few) who have continued to post here in good fait—responding to the news, open to understanding, and willing to admit when they might have been wrong. That’s the thing that keeps me coming back.

EDIT: I admit I’ve played my own part in this, having written what was essentially the same post multiple times (even multiple times in the same day).

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I have had my second shot for a week with no symptoms other than injection site.

Sure, but if you HAVE developed a craving for brains, wouldn't it behoove you to keep it to yourself in order to maintain the element of surprise?

 

[Disney Experience]

...he left the restrictions in place until Aug when NY/NJ had a positivity rate below 2% and 1/50 the number of cases of other “red” states that were not restricted at the same time. So fa none of his apologists have been able to explain that. It was a political hack job, plain and simple. Travel restrictions based on actual statistics make sense. If a state hits the threshold they go on a list.

I understood why DeSantis put areas with high covid cases (New York) on a list. But he should have put the reason a state is on the list and the predicates for getting off the list.

New York is more of a concern than California for Florida since there are much more people going from New York to Florida.

Anecdotally I lived for some years in a corner unit penthouse on a Floridian Beach. I was only 1 of 2 fulltime residents. Most lived part of the year in the Northeast. On east coast of Florida there are a lot from the northeast, while the west coast of Florida has a good number of midwesterners.

But in any case the rules for being on a quarantine list should have been consistent. If states have a significant difference in infection rates, I can understand a state trying to prevent importing problems. They should just base the decision on science and be agnostic in deciding it in respect to politics.

 

[DisneyCane]

It's unfortunate how this had to be due to politics. I think the worst thing that came out of this is the whole rehtoric that " the cure can't be worse then the disease". For something that I would have thought would have brought people together has divided us all.

Except that, in my opinion, the quote is absolutely true, and that, as I explained months ago is why this disease has become political. It is political to decide what the response should be. There are people like me who believe in minimal restrictions and personal choices and there are people like you who seem like you'd be happy if there was a life sentence for having an unmasked gathering at home.

You're entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine but our opinions on the response are so diametrically opposed that there is no way it will bring us together. We can agree on things like everybody should get vaccinated when it is available. We're never going to agree on whether or not indoor dining should be open.

There's no "right" answer. My way will certainly lead to more cases and more deaths from COVID than your way. However, your way will certainly lead to more economic damage, loss of personal freedom and mental/substance abuse issues. The political disagreement is which trade off is most acceptable to you.

I've also stated many times that my view would be very different if the mortality rate by age was flipped and it was children and young people who were at a high risk of dying. It's not that I don't care if an 80 year old dies (as my dad did in August unrelated to COVID), it's that an 80 year old has had a life already and is typically a lot closer to death than a 10 year old.

I want numbers. Without numbers, your hyperbole is useless. Have you read the rest of this thread? Without numbers and facts, you have disregarded quite a bit.

When I get some time I'll see if I can find a study of the percentage of the Palm Beach and Broward County population that is of "New York/New Jersey descent." Besides my family and people around me throughout high school, based upon the people playing poker at the north Broward poker rooms I would say the percentage is pretty high.

 

[GoofGoof]

I understood why DeSantis put areas with high covid cases (New York) on a list. But he should have put the reason a state is on tge list and the predicates for getting off the list.

New York us more of a concern than California for Florida since there are much more people going from New York to Florida.

Anecdotally I lived for some years in a corner unit penthouse on a Floridian Beach. I was only 1 of 2 fulltime residents. Most lived part of the year in the Northeast. On east coast of Florida there are a lot ftom the northeast, west coast of Florida has a good number of midwesterners.

But in any case the rules for being on a quarantine list should have been consistent. If states have a significant difference in infection rates, I can understand a state trying to prevent importing problems. They should just base on science and agnostic to politics.

That’s my point. People are getting all triggered over a rumor that isn’t even based in reality because of the perception that it’s an attack on FL but the Governor of FL in real life (not just a rumor) actually implemented a blatantly discriminatory policy and left it in place for many months. Most of the people posting here that are outraged by this new rumor see nothing wrong with what happened with FL’s travel restrictions or they attempt to justify it. There is no justification. Plenty of people from OH and PA have homes and relatives in FL but no travel restrictions there. Plenty of people drive down from Georgia or take a short flight in from Texas. No travel restrictions there (despite many months of cases way higher than NY/NJ this summer).

 

[celluloid]

Sure, but if you HAVE developed a craving for brains, wouldn't it behoove you to keep it to yourself in order to maintain the element of surprise?

If that is what I needed I would starve to death.

 

[Jrb1979]

Except that, in my opinion, the quote is absolutely true, and that, as I explained months ago is why this disease has become political. It is political to decide what the response should be. There are people like me who believe in minimal restrictions and personal choices and there are people like you who seem like you'd be happy if there was a life sentence for having an unmasked gathering at home.

You're entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine but our opinions on the response are so diametrically opposed that there is no way it will bring us together. We can agree on things like everybody should get vaccinated when it is available. We're never going to agree on whether or not indoor dining should be open.

There's no "right" answer. My way will certainly lead to more cases and more deaths from COVID than your way. However, your way will certainly lead to more economic damage, loss of personal freedom and mental/substance abuse issues. The political disagreement is which trade off is most acceptable to you.

I've also stated many times that my view would be very different if the mortality rate by age was flipped and it was children and young people who were at a high risk of dying. It's not that I don't care if an 80 year old dies (as my dad did in August unrelated to COVID), it's that an 80 year old has had a life already and is typically a lot closer to death than a 10 year old.

I understand your side of things but I look at what the government did here to help businesses financially to get through this. Covering 75% of wages and 90% of expenses as well as all people who lost jobs due to Covid got $2000 month.

Doing things like that is why I have no issue with all the measures that were put in place. IMO had people just wore masks and followed social distancing from the beginning a lot of the shutdowns wouldn't have had to be as bad. Even things that little people argued over.

 

[DisneyCane]

A quick anecdotal story update on the "willingness to be vaccinated" front. Back in January, I relayed the story of the 68 year old Jamaican man who does woodworking projects for me and his skepticism about the vaccine. At the time I told him that my wife (who he respects) was getting it and my mom was going to get it as soon as she could get an appointment. I spoke to him yesterday and, after our prior discussions, he got an appointment and got his first shot earlier this week.

I think it shows that some percentage of the people who say they won't get vaccinated can be persuaded to change their minds.

 

[DisneyCane]

I understand your side of things but I look at what the government did here to help businesses financially to get through this. Covering 75% of wages and 90% of expenses as well as all people who lost jobs due to Covid got $2000 month.

Doing things like that is why I have no issue with all the measures that were put in place. IMO had people just wore masks and followed social distancing from the beginning a lot of the shutdowns wouldn't have had to be as bad. Even things that little people argued over.

I am not well versed in Canadian government finances so I can't offer an educated opinion on what the consequences of those expenditures may be in the future.

What I do know is that the US Government spent $3 trillion of money that doesn't exist and didn't provide anything close to that level of compensation.

 

[Jrb1979]

I am not well versed in Canadian government finances so I can't offer an educated opinion on what the consequences of those expenditures may be in the future.

What I do know is that the US Government spent $3 trillion of money that doesn't exist and didn't provide anything close to that level of compensation.

Canada spent $250 billion on Covid relief.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Canada spent $250 billion on Covid relief.

I also was proud of Canada’s response. Of course our vaccine rollout isn’t so great... I wish they had really focused on building our own manufacturing facilities at the start of this.

My genuine question is, does spending really matter during a time like this? I always see people discuss “they spent money we don’t have”... and I just think that’s bonkers.

 

[zweltar]

Can you treat people differently by denying them products/services for those who've not been vaccinated versus those without the virus who've tested negative or not tested at all versus those who've been vaccinated?

I would imagine a private business could do so if they wished. Businesses are allowed to deny customers (see the gay couple and the bakery lawsuit several years ago). It could become as simple as if you wish to fly, either be vaccinated or have evidence of a negative test. Doesn't force you to become vaccinated. Otherwise you are free to either drive or find a carrier who doesn't have such requirements.

 

[ABQ]

I would imagine a private business could do so if they wished. Businesses are allowed to deny customers (see the gay couple and the bakery lawsuit several years ago). It could become as simple as if you wish to fly, either be vaccinated or have evidence of a negative test. Doesn't force you to become vaccinated. Otherwise you are free to either drive or find a carrier who doesn't have such requirements.

Not sure that case applies here, as it was a case based on 1st amended rights of free speech and freedom of religion. Unless there's some case of someone not taking the vaccine based on their religion, perhaps.

 

[DisneyCane]

Canada spent $250 billion on Covid relief.

Adjusted for population and the exchange rate (I'm assuming you are talking in Canadian dollars) that would translate to about $1.7 trillion in the US. The US spent nearly twice as much for far less compensation. Maybe the Canadian government spent smarter?

I would imagine a private business could do so if they wished. Businesses are allowed to deny customers (see the gay couple and the bakery lawsuit several years ago). It could become as simple as if you wish to fly, either be vaccinated or have evidence of a negative test. Doesn't force you to become vaccinated. Otherwise you are free to either drive or find a carrier who doesn't have such requirements.

A business could certainly restrict unvaccinated customers. They'd have to calculate how much revenue they would lose to those customers vs. gain from the vaccinated. Although, I'd argue that the gain from the latter would be limited because, if you are vaccinated with a 95% effective vaccine that is near 100% in preventing serious illness, do you really care if there are unvaccinated people near you?

 

[lilclerk]

I live in Orlando and have been visiting both Disney and universal a lot. I had a slight sore throat and congestion on Sunday evening. Monday morning woke up and felt considerably worse. Went to the convention center and got tested and thankfully it was negative. Somehow I manage to get a cold during all this nonsense. Feeling about 90% now but just a reminder to all visiting here to be careful.

My dad got sick last week too, which is terrifying as he's in his 70s and "retired" last year only to go back to work in a grocery store 5 days a week because he got bored during the pandemic. Thankfully he tested negative and felt better relatively quickly.

 

[flutas]

If anyone is looking for an interesting case study in subculture and worldview, take a few minutes to go back to the beginning of this thread and compare all the predictions and outlooks from early in the pandemic.

Originally we did not know much about the virus, so the opinions expressed here were based on limited data. But the same people who were wrong at the beginning...

• Called @ParkerLoLs a hypochondriac for expressing misgivings about visiting WDW while the virus was spreading
• Downplayed the threat, minimized the risks, spun the numbers
• Scoffed at mitigation protocols
• Made bad predictions about the decline of the pandemic, impact on Parks
• Compared the virus to the flu (or anything else)
• Prioritized the political/economic aspects of virus response over the social/public health

...have continued to do so. For 2600 pages of discussion. 475K deaths. Yet the same arguments, ideas, jokes, and attitudes continue. The discussion just goes round and round.

In my opinion, the real challenge we face as a society is that we have made it possible to live in completely different realities from even our families or next door neighbors.

I remember getting banned from this very topic back in very early March last year because I quoted numbers and said that DLR/WDW was most likely going to be shut down for a while... but I digress, I'm glad to see the site has (mostly) become positive discussion about everything.

To be fair, the worst offenders are now mostly MIA.

The avatars may have changed, but the arguments really haven’t.

And I’m pretty sure some who are posting now under one account did so previously under another account.

But I will say how much respect I have for the (few) who have continued to post here in good fait—responding to the news, open to understanding, and willing to admit when they might have been wrong. That’s the thing that keeps me coming back.

EDIT: I admit I’ve played my own part in this, having written what was essentially the same post multiple times (even multiple times in the same day).

Opinion time: I think the worst offenders (I know a few on the DLR side did) went off the deep end and got fully banned. Easiest way to tell is click on their username, if you get an error page they are banned.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Not sure that case applies here, as it was a case based on 1st amended rights of free speech and freedom of religion. Unless there's some case of someone not taking the vaccine based on their religion, perhaps.

The denial of products and /or services to people that can not produce evidence of having received a COVID19 vaccination is a mine field best not entered. The variables are mind boggling. What products or services are being referred to? Air travel, for instance, is still evolving on regulations, requirements and protocols, not a simple thing. Legally, well simply, there are a lot of attorney's looking forward to litigating cases of denial of products and / or services because of being unable to prove vaccination.