Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

BIG YIKES. BIG. BIG. BIG. YIKES.

‘We want them infected’: Trump appointee demanded ‘herd immunity’ strategy, emails reveal

Then-HHS science adviser Paul Alexander called for millions of Americans to be infected as means of fighting Covid-19.

www.politico.com

Who’s surprised? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

It’s pretty bad when you read something like this and sort of say to yourself.. sounds like something they would do. When did the surprise of this stuff disappear into , “oh well, knew he or they would do that”.

Let's leave out the fact that President Trump continually rejected "the herd" strategy (while using him in the picture). He did this multiple times in press conferences.

Also, is it a huge revelation that reducing restrictions would lead to more cases? That's part of why I argued against the restrictions in the first place back in March and April; because, as soon as you remove them, the spread increases. My point was that "control" requires restrictions in perpetuity until vaccine availability.

Finally, what he said about herd immunity by letting the young and invulnerable get infected was not scientifically incorrect. It would have required some way to completely isolate the older and vulnerable while 200 million+ got infected, which would be extremely difficult, if not impractical.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Let's leave out the fact that President Trump continually rejected "the herd" strategy (while using him in the picture). He did this multiple times in press conferences.

When???

 

[Disney Experience]

I think communicating factual news and information is the biggest challenge we face as a connected culture. There has to be some way of vetting the truth, no matter what the source is. I am picky about my news sources. While I recognize there is bias to some mainstream media reporting, there is still a certain level of professionalism obvious in the 'in-depth' (read: NOT 'breaking news') coverage from legacy news sources such as newsrooms at the big 3 broadcast networks, PBS / BBC / NPR, and select print outlets that have been able to remain journalistically independent like the Tampa Bay Times. I wouldn't say fact-based reporting is rare these days so much as that it is not as easily accessible as it might once have been.. and it certainly doesn't fit in a tweet, so it gets ignored more often then it should now.

How am I supposed to vet internet sources? Do I take the top 5 trending tweets and average them? How do I know who is funding the information stream and lending bias to it when it's a facebook post? Do I just trust my own echo chamber and ignore the opposing side? Should I just invent my own truth and publish it and make millions? My apple news feed is even guilty of biasing the content it gives me based on the headlines I click on.. I regularly have to reign it in and tell it to show me a wider view so I can see multiple takes on the same 'truth', and train it not to veer me into right or leftward bias. I'm sure most people just let it swerve them into whatever lane they are most comfortable in, bias and all, and the feedback loop continues.

The historical art of true 'journalism' might not be perfect, but from my perspective it's the only tool we've got right now to find any real truth.

When Trump was not yet president, I use to read NYT, CNN, Fox, Msnbc, PBS, BBC, and other international news sources. I started hearing how horrible Trump is. The horrible things he said in his rallys. I said he sounds horrible, but let me fact check this. Did I fact check by looking at other secondary souces? No, I went to the primary source, the unabridged, unredacted video of the rally that was the primary source. Well it showed me that there was bias on the reporting. I saw this over and over. So much so that I do not trust modern journalist to report news, they report opinion and massage facts to fit thier narrative.

I wish I could find good journalism. I subscribed to the Atlantic, hoping to hear both sides in one place. then they said they would not be fair to Trump in the magazine because they felt he was a danger to the country. Well that told me I would not be seeing old school journalism there. Whether they are right in their opinion, they told me that they would actively give information only supporting their opinion.

Even personally I ran into this in the early 80s. I had a magazine publishing an article on something I gave them. They called me up, I told them some of my history. The published article had my bio in it. I called him up because he made some mistakes in the bio, opposite of what I told him. His response? “Doesn’t it sound good though?” It wasn’t a mistake.

Primary sources to me are best, but they take a lot of time to digest.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[DisneyCane]

When???

Go read the transcripts. There were many press conferences where he referred to "the herd" and how some people thought we should do "the herd" and how other countries had tried "the herd" and it was a disaster. I don't have time to go through all the press conference transcripts but this is one of those points that he kept repeating many times.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Let's leave out the fact that President Trump continually rejected "the herd" strategy (while using him in the picture). He did this multiple times in press conferences.

Also, is it a huge revelation that reducing restrictions would lead to more cases? That's part of why I argued against the restrictions in the first place back in March and April; because, as soon as you remove them, the spread increases. My point was that "control" requires restrictions in perpetuity until vaccine availability.

Finally, what he said about herd immunity by letting the young and invulnerable get infected was not scientifically incorrect. It would have required some way to completely isolate the older and vulnerable while 200 million+ got infected, which would be extremely difficult, if not impractical.

And HOW do you completely isolate the older and vulnerable? Nursing homes need nurses. How do you assure that a nurse or aid won't bring the virus into a facility? A member of my mother's church needed a home health aid due to a stroke a few years ago. That home health aid wasn't a live-in aid and worked for other families as well. She caught the virus and infected the church member and his wife. Now he's dead from the virus despite not being able to leave his house. So tell me again how isolating the at-risk population works?

Edit: I realize that you're saying it would be difficult, but those are our only 2 choices now. We either have restrictions or leave a ton more deaths in the wake of our decision.

 

[_caleb]

Unfortunately there are very few people who watch a new show that was just the facts. It's sad to say, but most news today is entertainment, and bad news is much more "entertaining" then good news.

Right. And they're actually pretty up front about this. Reporting is conducted by "correspondents" and "reporters," commentary is provided by "anchors," "analysts" and "guests." They routinely interrupt commentary segments with "breaking news"–usually a very small bit of information, sometimes actually just a prominent person's response to something that happened.

The bulk of what's said on air is indeed commentary and analysis rather than hard news reporting. This is because nobody would watch a broadcast comprised strictly of news. Also, analysis sometimes uncovers news- like when a senator is asked for his opinion on a bill he voted for/against and his response shows he has no idea what he's talking about. This is news, and we should want the public to have free access to all of this information.

The difference between reporting and commentary seems to be lost on many of those who decry the "mainstream media." Could cable news tone down the sensationalism? Yes! Could they do a better job of distinguishing between reporting and analysis? Maybe. But are they all part of some big propaganda conspiracy? No. Do they have an agenda? Yes, but it's to get more viewers, not to spread disinformation.

 

[Parker in NYC]

When Trump was not yet president, I use to read NYT, CNN, Fox, Msnbc, PBS, BBC, and other international news sources. I started hearing how horrible Trump is. The horrible things he said in his rallys. I said he sounds horrible, but let me fact check this. Did I fact check by looking at other secondary souces? No, I went to the primary source, the unabridged, unredacted video of the rally that was the primary source. Well it showed me that there was bias on the reporting. I saw this over and over. So much so that I do not trust modern journalist to report news, they report opinion and massage facts to fit thier narrative.

I wish I could find good journalism. I subscribed to the Atlantic, hoping to hear both sides in one place. then they said they would not be fair to Trump in the magazine because they felt he was a danger to the country. Well that told me I would not be seeing old school journalism there. Whether they are right in their opinion, they told me that they would actively give information only supporting their opinion.

Even personally I ran into this in the early 80s. I had a magazine publishing an article on something I gave them. They called me up, I told them some of my history. The published article had my bio in it. I called him up because he made some mistakes in the bio, opposite of what I told him. His response? “Doesn’t it sound good though?” It wasn’t a mistake.

Primary sources to me are best, but they take a lot of time to digest.

If you have to parse the man’s tweets and rally statements — especially regarding COVID — I assume you’d be looking for a ‘balanced’ and well-polished view of his turds as opposed to the turds as presented.

 

[FeelsSoGoodToBeBad]

My wife is a PT and there is no way I would recommend someone go into that field these days. she went when it was 2 yrs undergrad + 2 yrs PT school. Now it's 4+4. So 8 years for a somewhat physically demanding job that earns less than an electrician.

I understand and agree COMPLETELY

I'm have an associates as an OTA and worked for years in that field, in addition to a BS in Psychology (and we all know what that's worth, but it was only two classes more to get the degree at that point). Now? With what they pay and the productivity expectations? Nope. I'm in a COMPLETELY different field making more money with less stress. I shudder to think where I might be now had I not been 7th on the OT program's alternate list (they got to 5, btw).

 

[willtravel]

Will all essential workers, all healthcare, teachers, police, fire, etc,, have to get the vaccine?

 

[Kevin_W]

Who’s surprised? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

I was actually surprised. I have heard intelligent people reason that innoculation might be a good strategy (intentionally exposing healthy people to very low levels of the virus to develop an immune response), so I expected that was what I would read when clicking the link.

But that's not what it was at all. Wow.

 

[DisneyCane]

Will all essential workers, all healthcare, teachers, police, fire, etc,, have to get the vaccine?

I doubt they will be forced to. The union workers might negotiate it into contracts. Healthcare workers don't have to get the flu shot, they just have to follow protocols at work if they don't get it. I'd imagine this will be the same.

 

[SamusAranX]

Not hundreds of thousands. Maybe you could tell us how Canadian doctors are lying about cause of death to get US Medicare funds.

Canadian geese are very mean. So Canadians are guilty by association of whatever we tarnish them with

 

[willtravel]

I doubt they will be forced to. The union workers might negotiate it into contracts. Healthcare workers don't have to get the flu shot, they just have to follow protocols at work if they don't get it. I'd imagine this will be the same.

I have a friend that went back to nursing. At a hospital she had worked at did not require a flu shot. The one she works at now does. She was not happy. Her or her family never takes a flu shot.

 

[GoofGoof]

Will all essential workers, all healthcare, teachers, police, fire, etc,, have to get the vaccine?

Depends on the state and the employer. It’s not illegal to require it, but that won’t happen until it receives full FDA approval. I don’t think there has historically been a situation where an employer required a vaccine under EUA. Maybe the military. In situations like healthcare workers being required to take a flu shot the workers can object on medical grounds which would require proof that the vaccination is a medical risk or in some states on religious or personal belief grounds. In that case an accommodation has to be made which is usually either a transfer to a position that has less public interaction or a mask mandate for the worker. In the case of Covid a mask mandate would be a perfect accommodation. If you won’t get the covid vaccine you have to wear a mask indefinitely. Problem solved.

 

[Kevin_W]

And HOW do you completely isolate the older and vulnerable? Nursing homes need nurses. How do you assure that a nurse or aid won't bring the virus into a facility?

Exactly. Ohio keeps stats on long-term care facilities. >31,000 residents have contracted Covid in Ohio, and ~21,000 staff at those facilities have also contracted Covid. Considering there are a lot more residents than staff, that is a high infection rate among staff.

If we could magically isolate the elderly it would help with the disease (while continuing to hurt psychologically) as those 31,000 cases amount to ~5% of the total cases in the state, while accounting for 48% of the deaths. But there isn't a way to make that happen.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 122 new reported deaths, along with 3 Non-Florida Resident deaths.

 

[SamusAranX]

Exactly. Ohio keeps stats on long-term care facilities. >31,000 residents have contracted Covid in Ohio, and ~21,000 staff at those facilities have also contracted Covid. Considering there are a lot more residents than staff, that is a high infection rate among staff.

If we could magically isolate the elderly it would help with the disease (while continuing to hurt psychologically) as those 31,000 cases amount to ~5% of the total cases in the state, while accounting for 48% of the deaths. But there isn't a way to make that happen.

The only way would be for the staff to completely follow protocols such as masking, social distancing, in their personal life outside work etc but you would get ones who refuse to do that. Cutting off all visitors alone won’t do it.

 

[Disney Experience]

Alaska health care worker suffers adverse reaction after COVID-19 vaccine

A health care worker in Alaska is doing "well" after suffering an adverse reaction minutes after receiving Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine, officials said.

www.foxnews.com

Doesn't change my opinion that people should get the shot. They should get the shot (Rare exceptions).

My father is 90 years old, he feels that the vaccine was rushed so is hesitant to get it, even as everyone around him in his suburban neighborhood has gotten covid. He has five degrees (Only one doctorate, and none in biology or medicine), and he hasn't followed the studies and protocols. I have to admit 90 year olds were not in the Phase 3 study.

He should get it (and be observed for 30 minutes post shot) in my opinion. But he has free choice.

 

[GoofGoof]

Alaska health care worker suffers adverse reaction after COVID-19 vaccine

A health care worker in Alaska is doing "well" after suffering an adverse reaction minutes after receiving Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine, officials said.

www.foxnews.com

Doesn't change my opinion that people should get the shot. They should get the shot (Rare exceptions).

My father is 90 years old, he feels that the vaccine was rushed so is hesitant to get it, even as everyone around him in his suburban neighborhood has gotten covid. He has five degrees (Only one doctorate, and none in biology or medicine), and he hasn't followed the studies and protocols. I have to admit 90 year olds were not in the Phase 3 study.

He should get it (and be observed for 30 minutes post shot) in my opinion. But he has free choice.

Yeah, I’ll take the allergic reaction over Covid. Easy choice.