Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
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ABQ

Well-Known Member
wait y’all can’t speak danish like me?
Joking.
Try this link:


edit: this one too

Thanks, though it doesn't really appear that anyone in the article is wondering about Sweden's numbers, just critical of them to call what they did a success when 5 times the number of people in Denmark have apparently died from it. Per capita I assume?
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It can be (and has been) proven that washing hands removes viruses and bacteria from the skin. It is impossible to transfer a particle to your nose, mouth or eyes if it isn't on your skin. The experiments don't need to be done with every different bacteria or virus as long as they have similar physical properties to those that have been experimented with.

I own my position on masks. I don't think they do much, if anything, especially when interactions are brief and when social distancing is in place. I don't think they should be government mandated because there is a 1% or less chance that any given random person is a currently contagious, asymptomatic carrier. I'm fine with a business requiring them if it brings more customers in because a segment of the population feels safer if they are required. I comply with all business's mask policies (including WDW). I put it on right before entering and take it off the second I step outside.

That's my position based on research and analysis I've done. There's no point in arguing because if you are convinced in the effectiveness of masks then I'm not changing your mind and you aren't changing my mind.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. I’m just pointing out that there is no science that says masks don’t help at all. It’s within your rights to “feel” any way you want about them and to “think“ whatever you want, but just like there’s no scientific study showing how effective masks are there is also no study showing they are not effective. All we have to go on is our understanding of how viral infections spread. That’s what the various experts rely on to recommend masks.

At the end of the day as long as people follow rules it really doesn’t matter what they think or feel. It’s when those thoughts and feelings lead to actions and resistance that it’s a problem.
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
Thanks, though it doesn't really appear that anyone in the article is wondering about Sweden's numbers, just critical of them to call what they did a success when 5 times the number of people in Denmark have apparently died from it. Per capita I assume?

They're starting to slowly wonder if the method works (I don't advocate for or against)

Yes, initially Sweden's death per capita was higher. But the pandemic may be over there (jury is still out), while the rest of Europe is surging and may end up having a similar death rate per capita, they just prolonged the inevitable. Again, I don't think we will know who was "right" until this is actually over worldwide, not just one country. Guess we will see.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
wait y’all can’t speak danish like me?
Joking.
Try this link:


edit: this one too


There's a lot of spinners there.

The first article is just one professor claiming they're reached herd immunity, which is laughable.

And it concludes with another professor saying they could still have outbreaks... but that didn't make it into the clickbait title.

The second article has the percentage infected as a disputed number... but far below what is needed for herd immunity.

It points out its low positivity rate... but we've seen US states with that low rate develop spikes later.
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
This is the first time I entered this thread to even read it and I started from page 1. It seems like years ago. This is exhausting.

Based personal experience, meaning people we knew who have died and others who are still battling long term symptoms who really had no underlying conditions prior from ages of 43-85, please still take this seriously, independent of what any laws or permissions from governors are out there. There is a common "excuse" that people who died had other factors, and that COVID is just a convenient political excuse. There are way too many where this is not the case.

Indoor dining is a hazard. I am more than happy to patronize take out, and as often as possible to help keep restaurants afloat.

What is maddening is that with the exception of one family of those we know, those who caught this did not infect others in their families with whom they lived. Without quick and inexpensive tests for all, (like a dollar store pregnancy test), this isn't going to go away any time soon.
Adding: Have a good 3 layer mask. not one that is just one layer and is a novelty with a funny print on it, or have that as a "top layer" and supplement to make a good one. Also, wash it regularly.

Keep good habits, wear your mask properly (don't make a "statement" by just covering your mouth), wash your hands often and well, and stay away from others as much as possible, meaning farther than 6 feet. Keep good habits regarding things you touch outside of your home, including door handles, carts, keypads and pens in checkout lanes. You know, the stuff you've heard about, but not lately.
Until there's a good vaccine available and most people are inoculated, that is the best way to reduce the spread of this. There are a lot of "I didn't believe it until I caught it" situations out there. We've lost a lot of people, many of which are due to non-belief because it didn't affect them or their loved ones directly.
It can be exhausting some days just trying to keep up with this thread! For you to start it from page one right now and read through, you definitely should get some kind of prize!
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
The influenza virus was isolated in the early 1930s and they still don't know exactly how it spreads. Over 80 years and it's still just hindsight studies and best educated guesses.

It isn't remotely clear how SARS-CoV-2 spreads.

To really know if face coverings (not masks which have specifications to them) do anything, you'd need to put infected people in rooms with uninfected people and have some rooms with the infected wearing face coverings and some not and see what the rate of transmission is to the uninfected. Since nobody is volunteering to be part of an experiment like that, the "science" is not clear or proven.

Yes, there is little evidence masks are effective.... if you ignore all the evidence that says they are effective...


.. and even though there has not been a human to human study, this has been done with animals and showed efficacy...


Considering that wearing a mask is easy to do, low cost, and has minimal downsides, you shouldn't need much evidence to show it's a good idea.
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of spinners there.

The first article is just one professor claiming they're reached herd immunity, which is laughable.

And it concludes with another professor saying they could still have outbreaks... but that didn't make it into the clickbait title.

The second article has the percentage infected as a disputed number... but far below what is needed for herd immunity.

It points out its low positivity rate... but we've seen US states with that low rate develop spikes later.

it’s an alternative viewpoint so feel free to judge for yourself.
I have already stated numerous times I have no dog in this fight.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Thanks, though it doesn't really appear that anyone in the article is wondering about Sweden's numbers, just critical of them to call what they did a success when 5 times the number of people in Denmark have apparently died from it. Per capita I assume?

It interesting that these articles always talk about how well Sweden did without a lockdown, but they miss the fact that a lot of people took the lock down precautions without being forced to...


"At the start of the outbreak, only high schools and universities closed; daycare and elementary schools have been open. Businesses have also remained open, but typically at reduced hours, and restaurants have functioned at reduced capacity.

Swedes have been asked to keep their distance in public, refrain from non-essential travel, and work from home when possible. Gatherings of more than 50 people are also banned. People age 70 and over are advised to stay away from others as much as possible."

"Swedes in general have changed their behavior to a great extent during the pandemic and the practice of social distancing as well as physical distancing in public places and at work has been widespread," said Maria Furberg, MD, PhD, an infectious diseases expert at Umea University Hospital in northeastern Sweden."

"Even without a strict lockdown order, many businesses allowed employees to work from home, and universities are offering distance courses to the students"

 

Kevin_W

Well-Known Member
Thanks, though it doesn't really appear that anyone in the article is wondering about Sweden's numbers, just critical of them to call what they did a success when 5 times the number of people in Denmark have apparently died from it. Per capita I assume?

Per capita, over 2x as many cases in Sweden vs. Denmark and over 5x as many deaths. The recent Swedish trajectories are better, but it would take a long time of worse numbers for the rest of Scandinavia to catch up with Sweden.

For comparison, per capita US has 2.4x as many cases as Sweden and only 6% more deaths.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
It interesting that these articles always talk about how well Sweden did without a lockdown, but they miss the fact that a lot of people took the lock down precautions without being forced to...


"At the start of the outbreak, only high schools and universities closed; daycare and elementary schools have been open. Businesses have also remained open, but typically at reduced hours, and restaurants have functioned at reduced capacity.

Swedes have been asked to keep their distance in public, refrain from non-essential travel, and work from home when possible. Gatherings of more than 50 people are also banned. People age 70 and over are advised to stay away from others as much as possible."

"Swedes in general have changed their behavior to a great extent during the pandemic and the practice of social distancing as well as physical distancing in public places and at work has been widespread," said Maria Furberg, MD, PhD, an infectious diseases expert at Umea University Hospital in northeastern Sweden."

"Even without a strict lockdown order, many businesses allowed employees to work from home, and universities are offering distance courses to the students"

And amusement parks remain closed by order of the government.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
And amusement parks remain closed by order of the government.

No gatherings more than 50 people? Amusement parks must be closed?

So, in the end, Sweden had and has restrictions. They didn't do a shelter-in-place lockdown, and bar all non-essential business; but they did legally ban a suite of behaviors and locked the doors of some places.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
No gatherings more than 50 people? Amusement parks must be closed?

So, in the end, Sweden had and has restrictions. They didn't do a shelter-in-place lockdown, and bar all non-essential business; but they did legally ban a suite of behaviors and locked the doors of some places.
Yes, no theme parks, no concerts, no fans in the stands at sports, no motorcycle rallies with thousands in attendance, no gatherings anywhere over 50 people. It’s kinda funny how the narrative pushed is Sweden had no restrictions vs the oppressive and draconian US reaction when all of the above stuff is now allowed in the US but not in Sweden.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Yes, no theme parks, no concerts, no fans in the stands at sports, no motorcycle rallies with thousands in attendance, no gatherings anywhere over 50 people. It’s kinda funny how the narrative pushed is Sweden had no restrictions vs the oppressive and draconian US reaction when all of the above stuff is now allowed in the US but not in Sweden.
Well be sure to be clear, some states in the US are allowing such things, many still are not.
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
Yes, no theme parks, no concerts, no fans in the stands at sports, no motorcycle rallies with thousands in attendance, no gatherings anywhere over 50 people. It’s kinda funny how the narrative pushed is Sweden had no restrictions vs the oppressive and draconian US reaction when all of the above stuff is now allowed in the US but not in Sweden.

I never said Sweden didn't have any restrictions in place 🙃
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Yes, there is little evidence masks are effective.... if you ignore all the evidence that says they are effective...


.. and even though there has not been a human to human study, this has been done with animals and showed efficacy...


Considering that wearing a mask is easy to do, low cost, and has minimal downsides, you shouldn't need much evidence to show it's a good idea.
First of all, these are all talking about surgical masks, not cloth face coverings.

Second, I should reiterate that I have previously said that there might be some benefit in a close, long duration contact situation like getting a hair cut where the stylist is breathing on you for 20 minutes or longer.

My opinions on effectiveness refer to situations like shopping at the grocery store where you aren't in prolonged contact with anybody (assuming spacing at the checkout line).

Let's put it this way, I would have no problem shopping in Walmart if nobody was wearing a face covering and you told me that 25% of the customers were COVID positive before I went in the door. It is certainly pointless to have a face covering requirement at an outdoor stadium with distanced seating and 20% capacity like the Miami-FSU "game" that I attended on Saturday.
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
Numbers are out -

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