Nubs70
Well-Known Member
As were the findings published in The Lancet and reported by Bloomberg
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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Keep posting that one. I've agreed that something is up in Ontario.
Could be the vaccination rate in the older population is astronomical and they're also sicker for lots of other reasons. Could be something else we don't know about. I've said a much more detailed analysis of what's going on in Ontario would be nice. Maybe they all eat to much poutine and it's interacting with the vaccination effects poorly. Maybe it's just too cold and people's T-Cells freeze.
The fact that EVERY SINGLE OTHER report that compares vaccinated to unvaccinated shows a different result is the clue here. Something is clearly making Ontario an outlier. It would be super cool to know what. But, continuing to post it again and again and again and just pretend that every other report comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated doesn't exist at all is either the ultimate hiding your head in the sand or cherry picking of data. It would be one thing if all those other reports were all over the place, but they all agree with each other.
Since I don't live in Ontario and WDW isn't in Ontario, I'm going to go with all the other reports. For now, I'll continue to hope whatever is causing the difference there isn't a factor in other locations.
PS: Sorry for our posters that are in Ontario. Stay safe, enjoy the poutine, keep warm, and maybe if you can figure out why the local results for vaccinated are so different than everywhere else.
dovetail65
Well-Known Member
Me too, seeing how Covid was in my home I thought for sure we would all get it. We just wore the N95, stayed away best we could. Still, I feel like it's a matter of time we ll do get it espcially my wife and I with our WDW trip coming up.
I felt my daughters head, even kissed it without the mask feeling for a temp. I kept forgetting she had Covid out of habit I guess. So though the masks must have helped I do think me being boosted did something,
In summary in my home:
Live in:
1 - 20 year old boy - Unvaccinted person brought it in TESTED POSITIVE was sick first by 2 days and even today still not back at work
1 - 20 year old daughter - Unboosted daughter Tested POSITIVE tested neg 5 days later back at work and school
1 - 20 year old son(yea they are twins) - Boosted Tested Neg
1 - 78 year old father - boosted Tested Neg
1 - 59 year old wife - boosted Tested Neg
1 - 57 year old ad(me) boosted Tested Neg
Visitors Exposed
1 - 29 year old daughter boosted Tested Neg
1 - 26 year old daughter boosted Tested Neg
1 - 26 year old son in law boosted Tested Neg
1 - 20 year old Daughters Girlfriend boosted Tested Neg
1 - 20 years old Daughter Girlfriend non boosted did have Covid about 4 months ago, Tested Neg
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Get back to us when you can show that's happening all over the world and not just one province.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I’m fascinated by the NHL stats because they (were) the perfect test group, they were basically 100% vaccinated and testing daily regardless of symptoms. No other group even came close to those criteria so it was the closest thing we had to a test group.
Unfortunately they’ve decided to stop testing players in a few weeks unless they show symptoms, too many positives, so that data is coming to an end.
They reported the other day that 75% of the league has now had Covid this season and 60% of the league has had Covid in the last 3 weeks. I can’t find any reports of even a single player hospitalized though.
I think it’s safe to say the vaccines don’t do much to stop asymptomatic Omicron but they’ve been incredibly good at keeping it mild, that’s good enough for me.
If you want to overwhelm and crash the healthcare system.
Or, perhaps you want to deny the unvaccinated care too? As a way to preserve the healthcare system.
Sounds almost like a plot for a new Purge movie. That's Universal not Disney though.
Ayla
Well-Known Member
FL is conducting an investigation to see if "any laws were broken"??:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/cmg/2T7MKP7UKRAQVDXG3SA5TPPZYY.jpg)
Orange County health director Dr. Raul Pino placed on administrative leave
Here's what we know so far:www.wftv.com
Is that likely to impact data coming out of Orange county or not so much?
I am 100% positive calling your coworkers who are supposed to be role models for this pandemic selfish and irresponsible is not in any way against any stupid law .
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Just another victim in the culture war.Orange County health director Dr. Raul Pino placed on administrative leave
Here's what we know so far:
Is that likely to impact data coming out of Orange county or not so much?
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
I honestly am not sure they are a good test case. Contact sports have always been - at least in our schools - bigger spread events. I actually agree with any decision to stop testing asymptomatic but that's me. Again we *never recorded in the trials* and I mean outside of the days I got the shot, I never was tested randomly. So maybe it's me, but that's not a realistic measure compared to what we do IRL.
I cannot even say the vaccines do not stop Omicron as I don't pay attention to who had what and boosted. I can tell you anecdotally boosters are stopping spread - even seeing friend not test postitive ever when household members do. So who knows.
willtravel
Well-Known Member
Just wondering if anyone knows if the fed covid test give away, do the tests (unopened) have an expiration date?
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
They must since all other tests seem to have one...they are not giving out some special test that doesn't already exist.
Do we know what kind of testing they were using?
I'm sure everyone has seen those graphs on days since exposure, viral load, and when different test types are likely to show positive or negative, both at the start and the end. They're normally part of explanations on when an at home test will start to show a positive, the lag in the beginning where a PCR would show it but not an at home, and the tail at the end where the at home will stop but a PCR would still show it.
I'm wondering what type of test the NHL was using and how sensitive it was.
We talk like "infected" vs "not infected" is a simple line, a binary you are or aren't, like being pregnant. But, it's not really. Just like the vaccine isn't a forcefield that stops infection at the boarder with a "ride closed" sign, that's not what really happens. You get exposed, the virus enters your system and tries to start replicating. Your immune system starts to stop the virus from replicating, and the race is off. Either the virus goes faster and you're infected and sick or your immune system wins the race and you're not. At the start, your immune system needs to identify the virus and figure out how to stop it, which creates a time lag. Vaccination reduces the time lag, giving your immune system a prior exposure to learn from. It's a cheating head start.
So, the question is:
How much virus replication do you need to be infected?
How much before you can infect someone else?
How much before you flip a test positive?
How much before you show symptoms?
How much before those symptoms lead to secondary effects?
How much before those symptoms and secondary effects require hospitalization?
How much before those symptoms and secondary effects cause death?
Which get's me back to the NHL testing question.
How much virus replication is needed for the NHL test to become a positive?
It was obviously less than to show symptoms. But, was it more or less vs what we think of as "infected" or what we should think of as infected?
How much do we need to be losing the race by to think of ourselves as infected?
When someone get's better, they must have finally won the race.
They will
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
Adding on to the last comment, IgA antibodies also protect the mucous membranes. They act kind of like a trap lined with punjee sticks.
The mRNA vaccines mostly induce the production of the blood-borne antibodies IgG and IgM. These can easily penetrate the interface of the blood vessels and airways in the lung, hence the reason that the vaccines are effective at preventing severe disease. But IgG and IgM can't readily penetrate the much thicker mucous membrane linings of the upper airway, so without a strong IgA antibody response here, a particularly fast replicating virus, like the delta and omicron variants, can gain a foothold before the memory cells can fully mobilize to fight the infection.
This is why I keep mentioning that I hope the nasal vaccine pans out. If it can stimulate the desired IgA response in the mucosa, then this might actually make a huge dent in symptomatic infections, and hence also, greatly reduce transmission.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Looks like they have a 15 month shelf life...
FDA extends expiration window for COVID-19 travel tests - The Points Guy
As demand for at-home tests soar, a longer expiration date lets for the Abbott BinaxNow COVID-19 home test will come as a relief for people overseas looking to travel back to the U.S.
So, it's like a foot race, say a 50 yard dash.
First you wanted your immune system to start at the 25 yard line. Delta and Omicron pulled you back to the 5 or 10 yard line.
Now, you're trying to buy some new running shoes and move back forward to the 15 or 20 too.
Reclaim some of the head start and use better equipment.
Maybe get your immune system some mouse ears too. Everyone loves mouse ears.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
Actually, that's exactly all the original Polio vaccine did. It did NOT prevent infection from poliovirus. Only .5% of poliovirus infections led to poliomyelitis, which makes it actually a pretty good comparison to COVID since most people, without any intervention at all, only had a mild illness. The vaccines were all about decreasing the chances of the infection progressing to paralytic poliomyelitis. Which the original Francis field trial results were 80-90% effective at preventing paralytic poliomyelitis. That's how they sold it. The switch to the Sabin vaccine in 1961 was because it was proven to be better at preventing transmission than the Salk vaccine, despite the risks of using a live virus. If the Salk vaccine was so perfect against all three: disease, infection, transmission... there wouldn't have even been a need to have debates about switching would there? You have made assumptions of what the polio vaccine must have done based on the outcome of reaching near-eradication. But they are just assumptions.
Sterilizing immunity, like herd immunity and endemic are words that have been co-opted by anti-vaxers and others looking for justifications to do nothing. It's based on assumptions on how vaccines work, and what was measured and studied during historical vaccine development. It's really hard to tell when people are infected but have mild or no symptoms. Even today. All people could really measure, in the past, were the incidence rates of severe disease. You can't go back to the old studies about early vaccine development and see measurements of preventing infection, because that's not what they were concerned with.
Sterilizing immunity is called a "holy grail" by experts because they know how rare it is to actually happen. It's a bunch of revisionist history to claim that the experts were touting sterilizing immunity for this vaccine as it would go against all of their education and experience. I remember seeing a whole lot of in many cases records were NOT kept regarding prevention infection as it was not part of the study parameters regarding efficacy against severe illness and safety. And people getting really upset about that part being missing. I remember a lot of "we hope it prevents infection, but we don't know." What media and political leadership said only demonstrated their own understanding or lack thereof, of how vaccines work and their own ability to be drug along the lines of "wishful thinking."
I'm pretty sure I posted this article the last time the lack of sterilizing immunity was brought up: https://www.theatlantic.com/science...izing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/
Experts talking in terms of myths and ideals, and about how far up the scale they can achieve with no belief that it could actually be 100%. Even referring to small pox as not sterilizing, although that and measles are the ones that are most normally associated with sterilizing immunity. Sure, these people who talk in these terms are going to go out and tell everyone from the beginning that Covid vaccines prevent infection. They didn't. But people would rather believe they were mislead instead of jumping to conclusions based on erroneous assumptions and wishful thinking.
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TikibirdLand
Well-Known Member
Do you suppose I can get a Figment popcorn bucket for each test? That would be MAGICAL!
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
Spot on! I saw someone post on Facebook, "How many people do you know who got the MMR vaccine and still got one of those diseases? Now how many do you know who got the COVID-19 vaccine and can say they never got the virus?" as if there isn't a gigantic difference in the % of the population who has been vaccinated against the measles vs. vaccinated against COVID-19. These "gotcha!" arguments just show that they have no idea how vaccines work and just undermine their own arguments - or they would undermine their own arguments if they were honest enough to recognize and accept the flaw in the argument when it's pointed out to them.
DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
Sold out already. 6 hour lines to get a popcorn bucket. I don’t understand what people are thinking sometimes.
Huge Figment guy here by the way and it is kind of cool. Anything over a 15 minute wait and I’m out.
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