Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

There was a Star Trek Next Generation episode about this.

I’ll call Logan, we can go for a run.

 

[danlb_2000]

Not sure where you live but where I am, it's the running joke around here. "Why get vaccinated, then you'd have COVID and a sore arm."

No, I grasp it just fine. Another basic fact of virology, when infected with a virus, your immune system builds up antibodies to those viral particles.

Or are we denying natural immunity here as well, I can't keep up.

People probably say this because news only talks about breakthrough infections, not the 1000's of people where the vaccine prevented infection, illness, hospitalization and death.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

People probably say this because news only talks about breakthrough infections, not the 1000's of people where the vaccine prevented infection, illness, hospitalization and death.

I don't like anecdotal evidence as much as any of you but as someone in the NYC tristate area, I know more vaccinated people with breakthrough infections than those without. Perhaps areas of high transmission have different rates of breakthroughs, I would assume that would make sense.

 

[danlb_2000]

I don't like anecdotal evidence as much as any of you but as someone in the NYC tristate area, I know more vaccinated people with breakthrough infections than those without. Perhaps areas of high transmission have different rates of breakthroughs, I would assume that would make sense.

Even if they are getting infected as often as the unvaccinated, and I haven't seen any scientific data to back that up, the vaccine is still providing them a better outcome then if they were unvaccinated.

 

[ABQ]

https://globalnews.ca/news/8347039/ontario-covid-mandatory-vaccine-hospital-workers/amp/
An actual news story citing the actual reasons for not enforcing the mandate from the government. Some of the good reasons include hospitals doing it without governmental fiat, among others. Where I disagree is in the assessment that too many workers would be lost, but we all know Canada is wiping the floor in general with regards to vaccine rates, so they’re likely in a better spot to absorb the next wave. Especially if they follow FDA/CDC suit and start vaccinating 5-11 year olds by year’s end.

I won’t even bother with the rest of the repeatedly debunked anti-vax drivel. Enough is enough. We CAN get to a point where people can move on and live normally, if the holdouts would shut up and roll up their sleeves.

We’re still cancelling elective surgeries not urgent enough to be life threatening (yet) so that society can cow-tow to “choice and freedom.” Yay.

Wow, this part is interesting, :
In a statement released Wednesday afternoon, the Ford government said it is a complex issue but pointed to the negative impact a similar policy had on the healthcare system in B.C., where more than 3,000 workers were terminated, forcing the cancellation of surgeries and diagnostic tests.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Even if they are getting infected as often as the unvaccinated, and I haven't seen any scientific data to back that up, the vaccine is still providing them a better outcome then if they were unvaccinated.

I know my posts may suggest I am against the vaccine, I am not. Nor do I recommend someone not get vaccinated. I am simply saying that the unvaccinated are not the entire picture and that we still would have a problem on our hands with even higher vaccination rates than we have right now, as many countries with those rates are and have had through Delta. It is not the cure all.

My biggest trouble with it is the mandates while we have upwards of 1/3 people who have had a previous infection that should be at least afforded the ability to prove their immunity. If we don't know those levels yet or how they correlate to preventing infection, then it is imperative we find out.

But the community based studies we have suggest they are in the clear, at least surpassing the bar set by only vaccination.

 

[sullyinMT]

Wow, this part is interesting, :
In a statement released Wednesday afternoon, the Ford government said it is a complex issue but pointed to the negative impact a similar policy had on the healthcare system in B.C., where more than 3,000 workers were terminated, forcing the cancellation of surgeries and diagnostic tests.

Yes, that’s certainly not ideal. The story continues from there to talk about the high rate of vaccination among not only health workers, but ALL Canadians (I guess Ontarians with respect to this story), as the further basis for eschewing the government policy for now. The general thought being that the system as a whole is protected because of the general public being at a greatly reduced risk of hospitalization in the first place.

It also illustrates that running health system staffing on Occam’s Razor isn’t ideal. Of those 3k, across an entire province, enough had to be perioperative staff to make an impact like that. I don’t know which is more scary: that those people wouldn’t be vaccinated as servants of public health or that the margins are that thin for success.

 

[disneygeek90]

I know my posts may suggest I am against the vaccine, I am not. Nor do I recommend someone not get vaccinated. I am simply saying that the unvaccinated are not the entire picture and that we still would have a problem on our hands with even higher vaccination rates than we have right now, as many countries with those rates are and have had through Delta. It is not the cure all.

My biggest trouble with it is the mandates while we have upwards of 1/3 people who have had a previous infection that should be at least afforded the ability to prove their immunity. If we don't know those levels yet or how they correlate to preventing infection, then it is imperative we find out.

But the community based studies we have suggest they are in the clear, at least surpassing the bar set by only vaccination.

We would still have covid even if our vaccination rates were higher, but it would be a lot less of a problem. Unvaccinated people aren’t the whole picture, but they are a large chunk of it.

Back during the height of the summer peak we had a large surge of positive cases at work. Nearly all were unvaccinated and one immunocompromised vaccinated person ended up in the hospital for two weeks.

They’re so much of the picture that the unvaccinated now have to show weekly tests.

 

[Incomudro]

How is this hypocrisy? Yes, the woman shld be wearing a mask. But I don't see any hypocrisy.

And for all you know she's boosted and living in am area of low spread.

There have been examples of hypocrisy. This isn't one.

The men serving this woman are less than 6 feet away.
They are unmasked.
I'll hazard to guess that they touched a large variety of surfaces in her home that were not thoroughly cleaned afterwards.
A woman of that age is precisely the type of person that shouldn't have people in her residence for a prolonged period of time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't like anecdotal evidence as much as any of you but as someone in the NYC tristate area, I know more vaccinated people with breakthrough infections than those without. Perhaps areas of high transmission have different rates of breakthroughs, I would assume that would make sense.

Yes, if you are in an area of high transmission breakthroughs increase.

Compare it to rolling dice. If you roll the same number on each die you get infected. The unvaccinated are rolling a pair of dice and the vaccinated are rolling five pairs of dice. For both it is possible to get the same number on each die but it’s a lot easier to roll doubles than a set of ten matching numbers. Some people get unlucky and roll ten in the first try. If you only roll the dice once a day your chances of getting all ten matching are very low but if you’re rolling several times an hour there’s a greater chance you’ll get unlucky and roll a matching set.

 

[mmascari]

My biggest trouble with it is the mandates while we have upwards of 1/3 people who have had a previous infection that should be at least afforded the ability to prove their immunity. If we don't know those levels yet or how they correlate to preventing infection, then it is imperative we find out.

But the community based studies we have suggest they are in the clear, at least surpassing the bar set by only vaccination.

We have a way, it’s simple and cheap too. Easier than any test with better results. Get vaccinated.

Bonus, it will provide 5 times better protection from future infection than prior infection alone. And 10 times times better protection than being unvaccinated if that “prior infection” was really just an assumption and wasn’t actually COVID.

 

[JoeCamel]

Yes, if you are in an area of high transmission breakthroughs increase.

Compare it to rolling dice. If you roll the same number on each die you get infected. The unvaccinated are rolling a pair of dice and the vaccinated are rolling five pairs of dice. For both it is possible to get the same number on each die but it’s a lot easier to roll doubles than a set of ten matching numbers. Some people get unlucky and roll ten in the first try. If you only roll the dice once a day your chances of getting all ten matching are very low but if you’re rolling several times an hour there’s a greater chance you’ll get unlucky and roll a matching set.

That is a nice analogy, I might borrow it.

 

[mikejs78]

we still would have a problem on our hands with even higher vaccination rates than we have right now, as many countries with those rates are and have had through Delta. It is not the cure all.

No country has yet reached the rates necessary. US is worse than most of the developing world.

that should be at least afforded the ability to prove their immunity. If we don't know those levels yet or how they correlate to preventing infection, then it is imperative we find out.

We.dont have a way to correlate natural immunity to preventing infection because it's so inconsistent.

But the community based studies we have suggest they are in the clear, at least surpassing the bar set by only vaccination

No, it's been proven that you are about 5x more likely to have a second case than a breakthrough with a vaccine.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Are you comparing SARS-CoV-2 to smallpox?

Sure it reduces the spread. No dispute there.

But the notion that an unvaccinated person is driving drunk and a vaccinated person is driving sober is complete and utter bunk. One is drunk, and one is tipsy; neither are in the clear.

And then you have the moral issue of giving a pass to someone who was vaccinated 10 or 11 months ago whose immunity has fully waned and then ostracize the person infected 3 months ago with robust immunity; at least in the interim.

It’s almost as if you have not heard of boosters.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

The men serving this woman are less than 6 feet away.
They are unmasked.
I'll hazard to guess that they touched a large variety of surfaces in her home that were not thoroughly cleaned afterwards.
A woman of that age is precisely the type of person that shouldn't have people in her residence for a prolonged period of time.

Look again. The officers are definitely masked.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

No, it's been proven that you are about 5x more likely to have a second case than a breakthrough with a vaccine.

I assume you're referring to the CDC study regarding hospitalization data. If so, that absolutely does not prove anything regarding the general public. Literally nothing.

 

[DisneyFan32]

MSN

 

[BuddyThomas]

I assume you're referring to the CDC study regarding hospitalization data. If so, that absolutely does not prove anything regarding the general public. Literally nothing.

 

[mikejs78]

I assume you're referring to the CDC study regarding hospitalization data. If so, that absolutely does not prove anything regarding the general public. Literally nothing.

There have been multiple studies.

And explain how it doesn't prove anything? Where did you get your degree in epidemiology?

 

[BuddyThomas]

There have been multiple studies.

And explain how it doesn't prove anything? Where did you get your degree in epidemiology?

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This. Exactly this. So many instant epidemiologists these days and they all seem to be giving all their "expert" medical advise right here on WDWMagic. Lucky us. Or something.