Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

hopemax

Well-Known Member
How would we be feeling if we spent a ton of money on treatments that performed well against Delta and earlier variants, but like Regeneron and the other monoclonal that do not work against Omicron? Warehouses full of expensive treatments that are useless? This all looks like hindsight. Should we have built a deeper bench? Always. But that takes commitment even when it looks unnecessary.

DisneyCane is worried about the costs of spending $2.5 billion on rapid tests that “don’t work” except they do work when viral loads are high enough. What is someone like him going to say about $100 billion spent on development of drugs that don’t work on whatever variant blows through? Up until Omicron the vast majority thought we already had everything we needed. And the rest were being ridiculous about the remaining trajectory of the pandemic.

People who have taken the pandemic seriously from a public health standpoint don’t have to be convinced that more could have been done to prepare for waves. And should be done for future ones. It’s everyone else you need to convince that it would have been worth the $$$$$$$ investment. Everyone with the power made a business decision. An economic decision. One that made sense up until the point the virus bodychecked again.
 
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Andrew C

You know what's funny?
What’s so magical about pills that someone who’s unwilling to get a vaccine from Pfizer will happily take a treatment from Pfizer?

I find it odd there are people who will gleefully ingest anything if it comes in pill form but they have concerns about vaccines.

We could create a hundred treatments but they won’t accomplish anything if the anti-vax crowd won’t use them.
I told this to someone else not in this thread...but how many stories have we heard about people in the hospital for COVID totally regretting their decision not to be vaccinated...wishing they had done so? I bet those people would gladly take a pill. When ill, you can can get a bit desperate for relief.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
What "lies" are "they" spouting and who is "they?"

Have you read this thread? Posters are acting as if vaccines don't reduce hospitalizations and ignoring anything anyone says to show otherwise, and then just repeat the same answered questions as if there aren't several posts explaining the answer. If you missed it, then maybe you already have that person on your ignore list.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
How would we be feeling if we spent a ton of money on treatments that performed well against Delta and earlier variants, but like Regeneron and the other monoclonal that do not work against Omicron? Warehouses full of expensive treatments that are useless?
We can say we tried and made our best effort. This country spends ridiculous amounts of money on things all the time. But heaven forbid we spend money on a treatment for a pandemic virus that or may not work?
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Have you read this thread? Posters are acting as if vaccines don't reduce hospitalizations and ignoring anything anyone says to show otherwise, and then just repeat the same answered questions as if there aren't several posts explaining the answer. If you missed it, then maybe you already have that person on your ignore list.
That may be the case. There is no question that the vaccines reduce the hospitalization rate if you are infected. No data shows otherwise.

This is why I strongly recommend that anybody who isn't vaccinated should get vaccinated. You will make it extremely unlikely to have any significant issue from COVID.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
I told this to someone else not in this thread...but how many stories have we heard about people in the hospital for COVID totally regretting their decision not to be vaccinated...wishing they had done so? I bet those people would gladly take a pill. When ill, you can can get a bit desperate for relief.
Ironically, if they end up in the hospital, the pills won't help them by that point.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Ironically, if they end up in the hospital, the pills won't help them by that point.
Within 3 days of becoming ill, that is the time frame I believe? Also, there are plenty in the hospital, or to go the hospital, that are not severe cases. As I said, when people become ill, they can become desperate.
 

disneygeek90

Premium Member
While there is certainly a correlation between political party and vaccination status to some extent, the data of percentage vaccinated shows that it is more closely correlated with age.

Look at Florida. 91% of residents 65+ are vaccinated, but only 60% of 20-29 year old residents are. While the unvaccinated percentage likely skews toward Republicans, it isn't the primary variable in the drastically different vaccination rates. The direct correlation is that the older somebody is, the more likely they are to be vaccinated regardless of political affiliation.

Very few parents, regardless of party affiliation want to get their 5-11 year old children vaccinated. Only 16% of residents in that age group are vaccinated and certainly nowhere near 84% of them have parents who are Republicans.
Age is certainly driving some of the numbers but I think the older groups are more likely to give up on fighting it and just get the shot rather than the younger. My conservative extended relative (late 60s) begrudgingly got the vaccine, complained afterwards and said he regretted it for months, despite having no real reason, and then said he wasn't getting the booster. I'd imagine if he was 40 years younger he probably wouldn't have bothered the first time around because he was young and not "at risk."
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member

Interesting article on what's going on right now.

What am I missing in this article? The included graph shows every country on a similar trajectory. It ponders why the USA is doing the worse, but isn't it kind of obvious? Lower vaccination rates and general behaviour to suggest people just aren't taking COVID precautions like they used to.

1642096145087.png
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Again, what you’re asking for is way beyond just more funding.
No I am not. This post is past tense, taking a chance earlier in the pandemic on treatments prior to showing promise, like we did for vaccines. For leaders that are meeting with scientific experts on a daily basis, I would have expected them to take those chances and have available every tool possible, as early as possible. There is a clear trend of not appropriately planning and preparing outside of the vaccine efforts. Now, we are stuck hoping the virus burns itself out, or it doesn't and the treatments that are coming down will be helpful.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
What am I missing in this article? The included graph shows every country on a similar trajectory. It ponders why the USA is doing the worse, but isn't it kind of obvious? Lower vaccination rates and general behaviour to suggest people just aren't taking COVID precautions like they used to.

View attachment 613732
"Professor David Larsen, an epidemiologist and global health expert at Syracuse University in New York, told the BBC that the US population is markedly different from that of both Europe and South Africa.
"We have an older population than South Africa. That's a big one," he said. "[The US] is kind of similar in age structure to Europe. But there's also a less healthy population than in Europe."
As examples, Dr Larsen noted that rates of hypertension and obesity - both of which are comorbidities that increase the risk of Covid - are higher in the US than in most other countries.
Dr Larsen added that "it's incredibly frustrating" to hear Americans downplay the ongoing threat of Omicron and believe that, like South Africa, the US may soon emerge from the current surge.
"The seasonality is also different," he said. "Omicron's surge through South Africa was during their summer, and it's hitting us in winter when we know more people gather indoors and there's more transmission…it's going to be bad."
Dr Mark Cameron, an associate professor in the department of population and quantitative health sciences at Case Western University in Ohio, told the BBC that he believes the US is suffering from "a perfect storm" of Covid-19, comorbidities, uneven access to healthcare and hostility to vaccines, masks, and other preventative measures.
"When all of that 'perfect storm' nature of vulnerabilities that are unique to the US combine, you've got an outbreak of the virus that can quickly lead from increased cases to increased hospitalisations, which tax the local hospitals and health community.""
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
No I am not. This post is past tense, taking a chance earlier in the pandemic on treatments prior to showing promise, like we did for vaccines. For leaders that are meeting with scientific experts on a daily basis, I would have expected them to take those chances and have available every tool possible, as early as possible. There is a clear trend of not appropriately planning and preparing outside of the vaccine efforts. Now, we are stuck hoping the virus burns itself out, or it doesn't and the treatments that are coming down will be helpful.
Even way back then, that still required massive breakthroughs. It’s not an issue of just taking a chance and more money as has been explained.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Within 3 days of becoming ill, that is the time frame I believe? Also, there are plenty in the hospital, or to go the hospital, that are not severe cases. As I said, when people become ill, they can become desperate.
The indication for the medications is to keep high-risk patients from becoming sick enough to need hospital care. If they're sick enough to get admitted to the hospital, then they've already passed that point.

The medications only work during the "viral replication" stage of the illness, which for most, is mild enough to not require cardiorespiratory support. Patient's end up in the hospital with difficulty breathing due to an out-of-control inflammatory response as the immune system goes nuclear in a failed attempt to stop the virus from replicating. The medications have not shown efficacy during this stage.
 

TrainChasers

Well-Known Member
Lower vaccination rates and general behaviour to suggest people just aren't taking COVID precautions like they used to.
Current vaccination rates (at least 1 dose):

USA = 75.2%
France = 79%
UK = 77.4%
Italy = 82.5%
Canada = 84.1%

I can’t speak on behavior but I’m guessing most of these countries are similar to the USA. Some areas have strict regulation, some are more relaxed.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Even way back then, that still required massive breakthroughs. It’s not an issue of just taking a chance and more money as has been explained.
The breakthroughs happened but the leaders apparently did not take the leap with the companies until the meds showed promise. This isn't how we handled vaccines. I wish it would have been different. That is all.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
We can say we tried and made our best effort. This country spends ridiculous amounts of money on things all the time. But heaven forbid we spend money on a treatment for a pandemic virus that or may not work?
As those FDA numbers show, most of them don't work. Also, the ones that do work have substantial constraints on when they do work. And, we are spending lots of money on them, even with the constraints.

I don't believe we spent money on the infrared laser shined up your nose to reduce viral replication. Not something the last guy said, but an actual story about an FDA submission. Guess what, we never heard from them again, must not have worked. Otherwise, we woudl all be carrying around little boxes to shine up our noses everyday.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
The indication for the medications is to keep high-risk patients from becoming sick enough to need hospital care. If they're sick enough to get admitted to the hospital, then they've already passed that point.

The medications only work during the "viral replication" stage of the illness, which for most, is mild enough to not require cardiorespiratory support. Patient's end up in the hospital with difficulty breathing due to an out-of-control inflammatory response as the immune system goes nuclear in a failed attempt to stop the virus from replicating. The medications have not shown efficacy during this stage.

Too many people seem to be latching onto these pills as an alternative or equivalent to getting vaccinated.

To me they're a great resource particularly where vaccines aren't as widespread yet or for high risk individuals who could potentially take a pill at the first sign of illness (i.e. immunocompromised and cannot be vaccinated).

As has been emphasized, prevention is always the best way to treat COVID or any other health issue.
 

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