Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

Phil12

Well-Known Member
It's time to move forward and let the unvaccinated suffer and die off. I'm sick of paying for other's stupidity. No masks, never again. Let nature and Darwin take it's course.
It doesn't work that way. The current delta variant is much more transmissible than the original strain. It has already been shown that the delta variant can be transmitted to those vaccinated. With this increased contagion and ample time, the delta variant will mutate into another new variant.

It's important right now to get as many people as possible vaccinated to crush the delta variant and stop the emergence of a new variant. New variants will be more resistant to the current vaccine and even vaccinated people will suffer and die.

I and all my family members have been fully vaccinated. We still wear surgical masks everywhere we go and practice social distancing. If you fail to wear a mask you could very well pay for "other's stupidity" with your life. The virus is not under control yet.

Unless there is a major increase in vaccination rates, this virus will continue to be deadly for at least the next year. Such a highly contagious and deadly respiratory virus will be with us for the next several years at current vaccination levels.

Crowded venues such as WDW are off my list until the virus is under control.
 

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile at the Mouse house no word on updated mask guidance but they added more park capacity for the Oct 1 start of the 50th anniversary 🤨🤔😳
Disney really said
Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 9.43.40 PM.png
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
Can I borrow your time machine?

Look I’m not trying to be argumentative but covid hasn’t been around long enough to make these statements definitively.
I’ll take the scientists’ word over a Disney forum on that one.

“Patients with Long COVID report prolonged, multisystem involvement and significant disability. By seven months, many patients have not yet recovered (mainly from systemic and neurological/cognitive symptoms), have not returned to previous levels of work, and continue to experience significant symptom burden.”

source
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
As a Jags fan, I can tell you how inaccurate that statement and view was
Upper deck has been non existent for years ( ie cover it with tarp , just like stadium games today in hot spot covid areas, ) , you should know but when the Jags play in London where their billionaire owner is from, helps boost their limited fan base.
 
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Tay

Well-Known Member
Are they really that limited in supply? I mean supply a year ago was an issue, not now. You can buy large boxes easily off amazon. Hell, come to SC, they are everywhere.
No I meant at first when this blew up. They then backtracked 2 weeks later. Just irresponsible with the growing number of anti science and nutty conspiracy theorists.
 

Tay

Well-Known Member
Limited supply of masks? I'm not looking forward to a possible limited supply of toilet paper! ( 😃 in these times ).
Sorry I was so mad I meant to type in at the beginning when this blew up and people were fighting senior citizens for one roll of toilet paper when they had a cart full.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
That is a lot of hospitalizations in one day, even when you consider the weekend bump, which not only may be because of reporting but human behavior. You see if you’re sick on the weekend, you can stay at home with no consequences, but come Monday you need to go to work, and therefore your symptom threshold for seeking medical care lowers resulting in more admissions.
 
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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
And I was not there.

My business has required masks all along and we are doing record-setting business every week.
First of all, I'm happy your business is doing so well. I am being genuine and not sarcastic. I have owned both successful and unsuccessful businesses and I hope that every business succeeds.

I don't know what your business is but perhaps they type of business attracts a clientele who tends to be pro-mask. Or the location you are in is a very pro-mask area. If given the choice, my Mom would be perfectly happy going to a business like yours. That's her "thing" even though she is fully vaccinated.

However, for the most part, people going to WDW since the reopening are not the people who are living in fear of COVID. No matter what the mask policy is or what other protocols they had in place, WDW was not and is not a "safe" place to be if you define "safe" as extremely low risk of transmission. The indoor queues were not designed for good ventilation and many have cramped areas. Enclosed areas with poor ventilation are going to be somewhat high risk regardless of protocols.

Essentially what I'm saying is that somebody with a high level of COVID anxiety isn't going to suddenly feel safe at WDW because indoor masks are required again (if they are).
So you’re OK with accelerating the deaths of many people just because they’re stupid or easily led?

…for your convenience?!
I wouldn't say for convenience but the deaths of unvaccinated people are going to happen. It's just a matter of time frame. What's the difference if 100k die this month and then the outbreak burns out or 10k die each month for ten months and the outbreak keeps simmering?

I'm saying this from the perspective of the present time when (at least in the USA) a vaccine that prevents severe outcomes has been available, conveniently and FOR FREE, for over two months to anybody with the slightest desire to be vaccinated.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
With the new data of Delta being at contagious levels even for infected people that are vaccinated, I'm surprised the CDC hasn't changed quarantine/isolation recommendations. Or is the viral load only high enough in the ones that do show symptoms?
As of now school and employer policy does not require anyone in close contact with a positive case thats vaccinated to isolate unless they are symptomatic.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
It's only bizarre and sounds that way because you don't like the message.

They've been pretty consistent for many months now.

30% to 60% of people have been ignoring them. But, that's not the same thing.

This will likely be the same. Anyone using the honor system and ignoring that guidance isn't going to suddenly take this new guidance and change.

One real impact it might have though, people who do follow the guidance (who are also largely vaccinated) will have the community spread metrics brought to their attention. Before, we all have a tendency to assume everywhere is just like where we are. Now, those people will be reminded that everywhere is not just the same. If it wasn't already happening, I would expect this group to travel less to the areas of high spread. May not matter if others backfill for them. At least in the shorter term. Longer term if this never gets under control and is high spread forever, it'll start to show up as people avoid high spread areas.

Who wants to vacation where accident could land you in a ER hallway for hours because the hospital is full.
No, it's bizarre because it makes the CDC look like a bunch of bumbling idiots who don't know what they are talking about. As I said in the mask thread, either the guidance in May or the guidance yesterday was wrong. They can't possibly both be correct guidance. They knew about the Delta variant and it was spiking in India several weeks before the change to the guidance in May so you can't blow it off as "that's how science works."

Either they shouldn't have changed the guidance in May because the "science" didn't support it or the "science" was correct back then and the "science" doesn't support the revision released yesterday.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
To comment on the CDC announcement, there is one study that suggests that vaccinated people, despite having less symptoms can potentially have as high a viral load despite having less symptoms, suggesting they can pass Covid to others. More research is needed, but in the meanwhile out of an over abundance of caution the CDC recommended masks indoors in schools (because kids) and in high transmissibility areas. If they had clear data this would be nationwide. Let’s hope it’s not true. I’m sure there will be further studies.

However, I will admit that the idea of being a Typhoid Mary for unvaccinated people at my most cynical is a little darkly funny, since for the past year a lot of us feared the people not doing mitigation giving me the disease this may flip the switch. I just wish more people would get their shot, or in absence of that focus on a vaccine passport.

That said CDC still said >90% of transmission is unvaxxed to unvaxxed.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
No, it's bizarre because it makes the CDC look like a bunch of bumbling idiots who don't know what they are talking about. As I said in the mask thread, either the guidance in May or the guidance yesterday was wrong. They can't possibly both be correct guidance. They knew about the Delta variant and it was spiking in India several weeks before the change to the guidance in May so you can't blow it off as "that's how science works."

Either they shouldn't have changed the guidance in May because the "science" didn't support it or the "science" was correct back then and the "science" doesn't support the revision released yesterday.
Or a new study came to light, that they were not aware of in May (which is what happened as announced by the CDC.)
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
It doesn't work that way. The current delta variant is much more transmissible than the original strain. It has already been shown that the delta variant can be transmitted to those vaccinated. With this increased contagion and ample time, the delta variant will mutate into another new variant.

It's important right now to get as many people as possible vaccinated to crush the delta variant and stop the emergence of a new variant. New variants will be more resistant to the current vaccine and even vaccinated people will suffer and die.

I and all my family members have been fully vaccinated. We still wear surgical masks everywhere we go and practice social distancing. If you fail to wear a mask you could very well pay for "other's stupidity" with your life. The virus is not under control yet.

Unless there is a major increase in vaccination rates, this virus will continue to be deadly for at least the next year. Such a highly contagious and deadly respiratory virus will be with us for the next several years at current vaccination levels.

Crowded venues such as WDW are off my list until the virus is under control.
It does work that way. The former variants could also be transmitted to the vaccinated. The Delta variant more so. Depending on how much more, true herd immunity might be impossible even if 100% are vaccinated.

However, being infected by the SARS-CoV-2 virus is not the same as developing a case of COVID illness that you need to be concerned about. If you are vaccinated, you are highly unlikely to develop a a significant illness, even from the Delta variant.

You can not say that new variants "WILL" be more resistant to the current vaccines. That is a complete unknown. Delta might not even really be more resistant to the vaccines. Possibly the higher viral load makes the immune system unable to get rid of it before it reaches a detectable level but it still gets rid of it before it makes you sick.

Something resistant to a vaccine or medication means it becomes difficult to get rid of.

I will agree that the virus is not under control and it may never be under control if you define control as causing detectable infections in people. If you define control as keeping it from killing people then it is already under control for anybody who has chosen to be vaccinated.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
With the new data of Delta being at contagious levels even for infected people that are vaccinated, I'm surprised the CDC hasn't changed quarantine/isolation recommendations. Or is the viral load only high enough in the ones that do show symptoms?
As of now school and employer policy does not require anyone in close contact with a positive case thats vaccinated to isolate unless they are symptomatic.
Perhaps even though there is evidence of higher viral load in asymptomatic vaccinated people that does not mean they are likely to spread it? It is contradictions like this (recommending masks but not changing the guidance you refer to) that make me think the mask guidance change is just to make it look like they are "doing something."
To comment on the CDC announcement, there is one study that suggests that vaccinated people, despite having less symptoms can potentially have as high a viral load despite having less symptoms, suggesting they can pass Covid to others. More research is needed, but in the meanwhile out of an over abundance of caution the CDC recommended masks indoors in schools (because kids) and in high transmissibility areas. If they had clear data this would be nationwide. Let’s hope it’s not true. I’m sure there will be further studies.

However, I will admit that the idea of being a Typhoid Mary for unvaccinated people at my most cynical is a little darkly funny, since for the past year a lot of us feared the people not doing mitigation giving me the disease this may flip the switch. I just wish more people would get their shot, or in absence of that focus on a vaccine passport.

That said CDC still said >90% of transmission is unvaxxed to unvaxxed.

Or a new study came to light, that they were not aware of in May (which is what happened as announced by the CDC.)
It seems to me that they are using this study that "suggests" vaccinated people may be able to spread the Delta variant easier as a plausible explanation to a nonsensical change in guidance. If they are still saying over 90% of transmission is unvaccinated to unvaccinated they must not think this study translates to a significant increased risk.

This guidance change feels to me like pressure was put on the CDC to "do something" to make it appear that the Federal Government was handling the situation. Then, when the Delta spike naturally burns out in 8 weeks or so, they can spin it to look like the change in guidance led to the decrease in cases.

When people like me point out that the curve followed the same pattern as the UK when the UK was reducing mitigation during the spike, we will be told that we don't understand science.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Perhaps even though there is evidence of higher viral load in asymptomatic vaccinated people that does not mean they are likely to spread it? It is contradictions like this (recommending masks but not changing the guidance you refer to) that make me think the mask guidance change is just to make it look like they are "doing something."



It seems to me that they are using this study that "suggests" vaccinated people may be able to spread the Delta variant easier as a plausible explanation to a nonsensical change in guidance. If they are still saying over 90% of transmission is unvaccinated to unvaccinated they must not think this study translates to a significant increased risk.

This guidance change feels to me like pressure was put on the CDC to "do something" to make it appear that the Federal Government was handling the situation. Then, when the Delta spike naturally burns out in 8 weeks or so, they can spin it to look like the change in guidance led to the decrease in cases.

When people like me point out that the curve followed the same pattern as the UK when the UK was reducing mitigation during the spike, we will be told that we don't understand science.
I’m not going down that conspiracy rabbit hole. I was looking for an explanation and I got one, I’m going to continue to follow CDC guidelines.
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
Interesting comments from a couple of posters today. Is it possible on a Disney forum, of all places, that we can agree we we care whether or not people die, even if they are unvaccinated and it means the vaccinated have to a wear a mask? I mean, seriously, think about the priorities there.
We had one poster say let them die, they are done with it. One member liked that post. So there are a few who really don’t care which just boggles the mind.
 

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