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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
A sobering look at what can happen in areas with low vaccination rates. National numbers that we tend to focus on matter too, but this is the type of localized outbreak people fear going forward in places with below average vaccination levels.

It's exactly why I think there should have been a better plan in place from the CDC. Instead it's pretty much turned into no masks for everyone cause businesses don't want the burden of making those not vaccinated wear a mask. It also why I don't agree with those who say since they ar vaccinated that it shouldn't matter.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I agree on deaths. The article I attached even showed that of the teens and young adults hospitalized almost all made a full recovery. So in terms of death only, Covid is still mostly an old person’s disease. Being sick enough to be hospitalized should still be pretty undesirable. I know some people who insist that Covid is no threat to them due to age and health but it’s simply not true unless you narrowly define “threat” as death. Young people holding on to that false narrative is one of the big drivers of the slowing the vaccination rate in that age group. It’s a real challenge to reach these people with this message since they either don’t tune into mainstream media or believe it’s all fake news and fear mongering. On social media we probably need more of these influencer types to embrace that message but it seems like the opposite happens and unfortunately the narrative on social media is being manipulated by foreign nations and a handful of anti-vaxx crusaders who are profiting from their anti-vaxx stance selling books and supplements.
remember, even after recovery those who had serious cases still suffer organ damage and nearly 50% report still having symptoms months later.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The numbers don't support an increase in deaths in younger people. The hospitalizations may be up, but this has not resulted in the worst possible outcome, being deaths.
Data source: https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku


View attachment 562231
Goes back to what @ParentsOf4 said. It depends on your definition of “old”. If anyone over 30 is old then yes, most deaths are in “old people” if you define anyone over 65 as old then there are still a lot of deaths between 30 and 64.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I brought this up a few pages back. With 86% of 65+ vaccinated the fact that deaths are still this high blows a huge hole in the narrative that only old people die from Covid. The vast majority of high risk people have been vaccinated. Deaths are down and so are hospitalizations, but not to the level people expected. I’m hoping that it’s just the idea that they are lagging stats and in a month that changes. In my opinion with the level of vaccination we are achieving we should get well below 100 deaths a day.

There is a concerning trend of increased serious infection in unvaccinated young people which happens to be the group least likely to be vaccinated. The article below talks about the increase in hospitalizations among teens and young people comparing Jan-Mar to April. Almost a third of the hospitalizations were in people with no underlying health conditions. The level of hospitalization was also over 3 times greater than the average flu season. This blows major holes in the theory that vaccinating teens doesn‘t matter or doesn’t count in the stats and that Covid is somehow less of a risk than flu in kids and young adults. We have to continue to push vaccinations, especially in younger people. We need to work to kill the narrative that covid is only an old person’s disease.

The narrative (at least from me) was never that only old people die from COVID. The narrative was/is that the risk of death once infected is significantly higher for the elderly.

I could understand why my Mom in her 70's would do everything possible before vaccinations were available to make sure she didn't get infected. If she did, there was a pretty high risk she would end up with a serious illness, at least a moderate risk of ending up in the hospital and a not insignificant risk she would end up dying.

For me, in my mid 40's, in good shape and healthy overall, the risk of any of those things (before vaccination) was very low, especially the potential to end up dead. It definitely could have happened to me but the risk of it happening was low enough that other things in my normal life were just as much of a risk.

For sure, if more young people get infected then more of them will end up with a serious illness or end up in the hospital. The rate in raw numbers will increase but as a percentage of infections in those age groups it will be roughly the same as it has been. It's pretty clear that, whatever the number of daily infections there are, the overwhelming majority will be people who have not been vaccinated. That will certainly skew to the younger demographics since their vaccination rates are so much lower.

I have sympathy for the minors who are having the decision not to be vaccinated made by their parents. I have no sympathy for anybody 18 or over with no medical contraindications who doesn't get vaccinated and gets sick.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
On Disney related news I saw this over on blogmickey:

Looks like physical distancing at restaurants and at shops has been relaxed. This opens up much needed additional dining capacity at restaurants especially with continuing capacity increases at the parks. This change lines up with the recent hiring spree and the re-start of the College Program next week. Seems like Disney is attempting to address one of the potential roadblocks to their Summer ramp up. There are still a large number of locations not open, but a lot of them are isolated to unopened or half open resorts. More signs of a return to normal.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's exactly why I think there should have been a better plan in place from the CDC. Instead it's pretty much turned into no masks for everyone cause businesses don't want the burden of making those not vaccinated wear a mask. It also why I don't agree with those who say since they ar vaccinated that it shouldn't matter.
The CDC plan isn’t no masks for anyone right now. The CDC and the federal government don‘t control mask rules anyway. There have been no masks mandated by the state of FL since September.

Here‘s the bigger question, should places that have reached a high level of vaccination continue to have mitigations because of other areas that are below average? So I live in PA about 1,000 miles from the 2 counties in Missouri from that article. My state has 72% of adults with 1 dose, my county is even higher than that. At the end of June when PA drops all Covid mitigations we will have 70% of adults fully vaccinated in the state and likely be somewhere north of 75% with 1 shot and approaching 80%. My county will most likely be even higher. So should we continue mitigations anyway because of places like those counties in the article? I think the CDC has to provide guidelines for states and businesses to use, but different situations require different approaches.

I think the potential for outbreaks in low vaccination areas is tragic and I feel bad for the people living there but I don’t see it as a major threat to me or my family because we are or will be vaccinated and are also very unlikely to go to a place like that.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
The CDC plan isn’t no masks for anyone right now. The CDC and the federal government don‘t control mask rules anyway. There have been no masks mandated by the state of FL since September.

Here‘s the bigger question, should places that have reached a high level of vaccination continue to have mitigations because of other areas that are below average? So I live in PA about 1,000 miles from the 2 counties in Missouri from that article. My state has 72% of adults with 1 dose, my county is even higher than that. At the end of June when PA drops all Covid mitigations we will have 70% of adults fully vaccinated in the state and likely be somewhere north of 75% with 1 shot and approaching 80%. My county will most likely be even higher. So should we continue mitigations anyway because of places like those counties in the article? I think the CDC has to provide guidelines for states and businesses to use, but different situations require different approaches.

I think the potential for outbreaks in low vaccination areas is tragic and I feel bad for the people living there but I don’t see it as a major threat to me or my family because we are or will be vaccinated and are also very unlikely to go to a place like that.
I'm fine with different approaches in different areas. My issue is those places that have decided that since vaccines are available it's good enough. I saw earlier some one post their region is only 40% vaccinated and yet no masks for everyone.

I'm guessing you don't agree with how much of Canada is going about dropping mitigations?
 

GaBoy

Well-Known Member
The CDC plan isn’t no masks for anyone right now. The CDC and the federal government don‘t control mask rules anyway. There have been no masks mandated by the state of FL since September.

Here‘s the bigger question, should places that have reached a high level of vaccination continue to have mitigations because of other areas that are below average? So I live in PA about 1,000 miles from the 2 counties in Missouri from that article. My state has 72% of adults with 1 dose, my county is even higher than that. At the end of June when PA drops all Covid mitigations we will have 70% of adults fully vaccinated in the state and likely be somewhere north of 75% with 1 shot and approaching 80%. My county will most likely be even higher. So should we continue mitigations anyway because of places like those counties in the article? I think the CDC has to provide guidelines for states and businesses to use, but different situations require different approaches.

I think the potential for outbreaks in low vaccination areas is tragic and I feel bad for the people living there but I don’t see it as a major threat to me or my family because we are or will be vaccinated and are also very unlikely to go to a place like that.
I think the CDC is going to broad brush their policies and stay out of local guidance. The trend looks to be a gradual backing out and pushing people toward making their own decisions.... just like you have. It may sound coarse to say so but I think they realize this is going to a regional or local issue and hots spots will either dead-end the virus through infection or panicked local populations that suddenly wise up and vaccinate (get off their lazy butts).
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'm fine with different approaches in different areas. My issue is those places that have decided that since vaccines are available it's good enough. I saw earlier some one post their region is only 40% vaccinated and yet no masks for everyone.

I'm guessing you don't agree with how much of Canada is going about dropping mitigations?
I wouldn’t feel very good about no masks for anyone with only 40% vaccinated. Thankfully I don’t live somewhere that is like that. I feel bad for the people who do live there, especially people with kids under 12, but I can’t change how the local governments there reacted. I don’t even have a vote in their elections.

I don’t disagree with Canada’s approach. I think a large portion of the US has done very similar things. The US is a much larger and diverse country so not a perfect comparison. Here’s an example, if you live in Ontario in a densely populated area and you get to 75%+ vaccinated and cases come way down but over in the Northwest Territories and Yukon where not many people actually live they are only at 55% vaccinated would you want to keep mitigations in Ontario until they got vaccinated? That’s sorta how we are feeling here now. In New England, the MidAtlantic and West Coast we are seeing high vaccine acceptance rates and major drops in cases right now. People are looking at their situation on the ground and want to return to normal.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t feel very good about no masks for anyone with only 40% vaccinated. Thankfully I don’t live somewhere that is like that. I feel bad for the people who do live there, especially people with kids under 12, but I can’t change how the local governments there reacted. I don’t even have a vote in their elections.

I don’t disagree with Canada’s approach. I think a large portion of the US has done very similar things. The US is a much larger and diverse country so not a perfect comparison. Here’s an example, if you live in Ontario in a densely populated area and you get to 75%+ vaccinated and cases come way down but over in the Northwest Territories and Yukon where not many people actually live they are only at 55% vaccinated would you want to keep mitigations in Ontario until they got vaccinated? That’s sorta how we are feeling here now. In New England, the MidAtlantic and West Coast we are seeing high vaccine acceptance rates and major drops in cases right now. People are looking at their situation on the ground and want to return to normal.
That's never been my argument. My argument has been all along that since vaccines are here the dropping of mitigations should be tied to vaccination rates and not cases at all. IMO masks should be required indoors in all places til a certain percentage of eligible people are vaccinated. I personally think all states should follow what Orange county did with their policy. Its the only way to make sure you avoid those outbreaks. Going by how most feel here that Covid is over. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳. IMO it's far from it especially considering the vaccination rate drop off.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
That's never been my argument. My argument has been all along that since vaccines are here the dropping of mitigations should be tied to vaccination rates and not cases at all. IMO masks should be required indoors in all places til a certain percentage of eligible people are vaccinated. I personally think all states should follow what Orange county did with their policy. Its the only way to make sure you avoid those outbreaks. Going by how most feel here that Covid is over. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳. IMO it's far from it especially considering the vaccination rate drop off.
Many states have followed a similar plan. Indoor masks mandates still exist in most of the same states that had them all along. 14 states which are home to over 1/3 of the population have now exceeded 70% of adults vaccinated with 1 shot. Some of those states have set dates for the removal of the rest of the Covid restrictions and some already started. In the other states with the other 2/3 of the population it’s a mixed bag. Some have kept mitigations like mask mandates and others have not or never had them in the first place.

As far as covid being over, I don’t think anyone really thinks that. As I’ve said all along the mitigations should be dialed back and relaxed gradually not with a flip of a light switch. I don‘t think it’s a wise plan to set a target and then end all restrictions at once when you hit it. It’s better to follow a gradual approach (which was supposed to be the re-opening plan last Spring as well) and then assess the impact before relaxing further. Vaccinations should replace other covid mitigations and once we hit enough people vaccinated we should see the cases continue to drop even after all mitigations are removed. That’s what we are working towards.
 

MaryJaneP

Well-Known Member
Many seem to confuse the reduction of mitigation measures to zero as being the same as any place in the world (the USA included) ever reaching a complete absence of the Covid virus. Optional masks for healthy vaccinated individuals, absolutely. Masks for those who still need them. Also absolutely. May WDW follow what is sensible. May everyone do the same.
 
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seascape

Well-Known Member
Wyoming and Colorado are stubbornly continuing with 12 and 10 cases per 100,000. Washington, Nevada and West Virginia are at 8, Utah, Louisiana and Oregon are at 7. Since Florida is not reporting daily, I don't believe the Time's saying they are at 6 along with Alabama, Idaho, Montana and Missouri. However, that means 37 states and the District of Columbia are at 5 or less per 100,000. I am not minimizing the number of deaths but saying every death of someone with Covid19 is a Covid19 death is just crazy. YES I KNOW MOST ARE BUT NOT ALL. Anyway, deaths and hospitalizations are lagging indicators and will come down. What is known is that cases are coming down and even if one were to use the 12 cases per 100,000. there would only be 30 guests at WDW on Christmas based on 250,000 total guests, but using the national average there would only be 10. The numbers keep getting better and better, but. we should all kearn from this experience and stay cautious about our healrh and follow reasonable precautions, WASH YOUR HANDS, STAY AT HOME IF YOU ARE SICK AND DON'T COUGH OF OTHERS. Finally, I will never walk into a pharmacy without a mask on again. THERE ARE SICK PEOPLE PICKING UP PRESCRIPTIONS that they need and should get, so don't complain about that.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
There have been no masks mandated by the state of FL since September.
That’s a misnomer. The State of Florida never mattered to us here in South Florida with the most people and the most cases. Local government mandates kept Florida as a whole from having far worse numbers by keeping our mandates. And when the Governor (🙄) “invalidated” those mandates recently, we mostly ignored him and went on masking. 80-90% of people in a Publix supermarket are still masking down here.

We just went up to Sebastian, FL for the weekend and experienced a bit of culture shock: we walked into Publix and hardly anyone was masked. We stayed at a resort where there was some fishing tournament, and the restaurants were all packed for dinner, plus there was kind of an outdoor club connected to them. No one was masked, and the only reasons I felt comfortable staying was it was completely open-air, we were all vaccinated. But it was like being in another world.

Also, I had checked the stats. For June 23 (I think) we had over 200 new cases in Broward County (down a lot but still not insignificant, and higher than the 7 day average, which could indicate an increase.) Nearby Miami Dade was even higher, and Palm Beach, lower. These counties all have cross-traffic every day, so I check all three.

Indian River County, where we visited, had 10. Ten new cases in the whole county. Again, totally different world.
 

pixie225

Well-Known Member
NY now has infection rate of .47%. It is the 62nd day in a row our infection rate has gone down. 54.6% of our total population has received one dose. For those 18 and over 66.2% have received one dose. 47.1% of NY has received both doses.

We attended the Belmont Stakes on Saturday - 11,000 people let in instead of the 100,000 they usually have. One of the sections was for "vaccinated only" but we saw not one person "proofed" that they had been vaccinated as they entered. We were told to bring our vacs card or excelsior pass to show we had been fully vaccinated. Unvaccinated people were supposed to be wearing masks. We saw only a handful of people wearing masks. Will be interesting to see what happens 1-2 weeks from now with infection rate.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t feel very good about no masks for anyone with only 40% vaccinated.

Us Floridians say HELLO!
According to CDC data, over 50% of the population of FL has had at least one dose. The high population counties are all above 40% vaccinated (at least one dose).

Even in the States with the highest levels of vaccination, I'm sure you can find several rural counties that are low like the rural counties in FL. Notable exceptions being VT, ME and HI.
 

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