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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

CJR

Well-Known Member
Masks on a plane until September is gonna be a real tough sell. Also makes a fully vaccinated cruise ship a real appealing vacation. Maybe the safest if they can actually verify those vaccines.

That's actually why we chose to go to the northeast over California this year. A hour and half flight vs a five hour flight.

I really feel for the people going international. Especially since vaccinated or not, they need a negative covid test to fly back. I'd guess that it's a stressful vacation component, not something I want for a relaxing getaway. So, no international travel for a bit... unless it's a cruise and even then, I'll wait a bit.
 

Parker in NYC

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Ramping back is fine. This feels more like "we're done". Perhaps a few steps to early. Like the track runner that stands up, waives to the crowd before crossing the finish line. Only to be crushed by the second place runner they thought they left far behind, but were wrong.
Trying to make peace with this. My only conclusion is that those who don’t play ball will reap what they sow. And I’m here for it. I don’t want anyone to get hurt but I’m also not an idiot.
 

sullyinMT

Well-Known Member
Trying to make peace with this. My only conclusion is that those who don’t play ball will reap what they sow. And I’m here for it. I don’t want anyone to get hurt but I’m also not an idiot.
Right there with you. This was going to happen eventually, but I fear 40% remaining completely unprotected is a bit too much of a powder keg to sit on.

Maybe, just maybe, this will scare a few people off the couch and to a needle who were willing to just ride it out and let it end a slow and natural death. I hope so - enough of them, anyway.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
I don't get you.

Vaccinated people don't have to wear masks. That's all they said. What is wrong with that? This is what the end goal is.
They didn't say everyone go maskless, they said here is the benefit for you who chose to get vaccinated - no masks.

They didn't mandate that companies had to stop requiring masks indoors and I'm sure many won't stop that requirement.
Okay, sorry guys, but some of you at this point really don't seem want to see forward progress.

There's 2 possibilities that happen here:
  1. Without a single requirement for people, businesses keep the mitigation requirement. More people complain because they're vaccinated.
  2. Without a single requirement for people, businesses say it's up to the person, do what you're supposed to. Suddenly, everyone, 95% of people are vaccinated, including those as young as 12 (they were all in the studies clearly). Even though we KNOW that's not true.
As a parent of an under 12, I need community spread to be low enough that nobody needs masks. The current levels don't say they are with no other mitigations. Headed there, but not there yet.


While the new picture makes a distinction between vaccinated and not. I don't trust people in general, and assume that 95% of people will say they're in the vaccinated column when we know nationally only 35.4% meet the definition and only 46.4% have even started.

That chart, and the CDC guidance says "Fully Vaccinated", 2 weeks after the last dose. Many area's are way ahead of the 46.4% first dose. But I haven't seen any over that for "Fully Vaccinated".

So, while they said "Vaccinated people don't have to wear masks." what I expect people to hear is "Vaccinated people don't have to wear masks. We're done."
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
That sounds rational, but weren't we already headed there?

So far, this doesn't read like that. I still dislike any guidance that treats vaccinated and unvaccinated differently when they're in the same place without any assurance about who is vaccinated.

When I read "The new guidance will also no longer recommend that fully vaccinated people wear masks outdoors in crowds.", I don't see that as "unvaccinated will still wear masks in a crowd". I read it as "nobody in a crowd will wear a mask".

Which means, in a crowded location, with my 11 year old wearing a mask, there's no idea if the people crowded around them are vaccinated or not and if not infectious. Clearly, the answer is, don't take them there. It'll be a personal decision if the defense of wearing a mask is enough without also having the source control protection at the same time. Today, the risk assumption is still that the unmasked person walking towards us is both unvaccinated and infectious. They're probably not, but the impact of being wrong is significant enough to error on the side of caution. It'll be better soon, but I don't think we're there yet.

The graphs are all going down. No question, we're headed in the right direction. The only question is, is the vaccinated level that exists today enough to keep up that trend. Does removing all the other mitigations cause the downward trend to stop and flatten out. Nobody wins if it flattens out to early.
YoI are mixing up the recommendation with the logistical challenges of implementing it. There’s nothing here that says nobody in a crowd has to wear a mask anymore. They are specifically saying that only fully vaccinated people (2 weeks past both shots, not got the first shot yesterday) do not need to wear a mask virtually anywhere. It’s crystal clear to me. How does a business like WDW handle that recommendation. One of 3 ways:
  1. Since they can’t tell who is vaccinated and who isn’t assume nobody is and keep masks around
  2. Since they can’t tell who is vaccinated and who isn’t assume everyone is vaccinated and drop the mask rule for everyone
  3. Ask CMs and guests to provide proof of vaccination and only allow fully vaccinated people to be mask free. A logistical nightmare
So for now maybe nothing changes. Maybe they stay conservative and they keep the rules for everyone (option 1) but at some point when enough of the public is vaccinated switch to 2 or even 3. It is possible they do option 3 without formal enforcement. They tell guests that they don’t have to wear a mask if fully vaccinated but anyone who isn’t vaccinated must wear one. They post signs at the pools telling people not to swim if they have diarrhea but nobody ever asked me for a stool sample poop 💩 ;)). Some people would follow it and a lot probably wouldn‘t.
 
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Chi84

Premium Member
YoI are mixing up the recommendation with the logistical challenges of implementing it. There’s nothing here that says nobody in a crowd has to wear a mask anymore. They are specifically saying that only fully vaccinated people (2 weeks past both shots, not got the first shot yesterday) do not need to wear a mask virtually anywhere. It’s crystal clear to me. How does a business like WDW handle that recommendation. One of 3 ways:
  1. Since they can’t tell who is vaccinated and who isn’t assume nobody is and keep masks around
  2. Since they can’t tell who is vaccinated and who isn’t assume everyone is vaccinated and drop the mask rule for everyone
  3. Ask CMs and guests to provide proof of vaccination and only allow fully vaccinated people to be mask free. A logistical nightmare
So for now maybe nothing changes. Maybe they stay conservative and they keep the rules for everyone (option 1) but at some point when enough of the public is vaccinated switch to 2 or even 3. It is possible they do option 3 without formal enforcement. They tell guests that they don’t have to wear a mask if fully vaccinated but anyone who isn’t vaccinated must wear one. They post signs at the pools telling people not to swim if they have diarrhea bjt nobody ever asked me for a stool sample;)). Some people would follow it and a lot probably wouldn‘t.
It's going to be Number 2 and rather quickly. (Not the diarrhea number 2)
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's going to be Number 2 and rather quickly. (Not the diarrhea number 2)
I agree. I think it’s 1 for now and then a shift to 2. Remember that Orange County doesn’t drop masks indoor until 70% of adults get 1 shot. They could alter that plan, but if they keep it Disney won’t be dropping masks for a while. Maybe late June into July.....unless this news drives the vaccine rate way up.👍👍👍
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
YoI are mixing up the recommendation with the logistical challenges of implementing it. There’s nothing here that says nobody in a crowd has to wear a mask anymore. They are specifically saying that only fully vaccinated people (2 weeks past both shots, not got the first shot yesterday) do not need to wear a mask virtually anywhere. It’s crystal clear to me. How does a business like WDW handle that recommendation. One of 3 ways:
  1. Since they can’t tell who is vaccinated and who isn’t assume nobody is and keep masks around
  2. Since they can’t tell who is vaccinated and who isn’t assume everyone is vaccinated and drop the mask rule for everyone
  3. Ask CMs and guests to provide proof of vaccination and only allow fully vaccinated people to be mask free. A logistical nightmare
So for now maybe nothing changes. Maybe they stay conservative and they keep the rules for everyone (option 1) but at some point when enough of the public is vaccinated switch to 2 or even 3. It is possible they do option 3 without formal enforcement. They tell guests that they don’t have to wear a mask if fully vaccinated but anyone who isn’t vaccinated must wear one. They post signs at the pools telling people not to swim if they have diarrhea bjt nobody ever asked me for a stool sample;)). Some people would follow it and a lot probably wouldn‘t.
It's a public health guidance, not a personal one. Don't mix up the goals of the guidance, they're trying to shape the public health problem not a specific individual's health decisions. As you point out, they're not the same.

There will be incredible pressure for number 2. Every group that was falling back on "we're following the CDC guidance" even if they were not following everything will feel pressure to do number 2.

I agree that number 3 is a nightmare. No business wants to create the possibility of more conflict.

We may be fine. The dropping graph is a pretty steep slope. Lots of the drop is based on "First Dose" not "Fully Vaccinated" so ignoring that difference may not matter.

I'm certain we will see news stories, hear tales from others, and definitely from the "hoax" group, that with this announcement, we're done, Pandemic over in the US.

Some counties will hold out some, but with this, I'll bet everywhere is just done and open by June 1, no matter what the numbers say. That's what makes me sad, since I don't think the numbers will be there by June 1. Before the fall for sure, maybe even as early as July 1, but not by June 1. I hope to be wrong, but I'm willing to bet a beer that that graph is going to flatten at a level higher than we want it to.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
So I checked the CVS site out of curiosity and I see about half the PA locations have no appointments available. This was not the case a week ago when every location was open. They did start taking kids 12-15 so maybe part of the surge in demand but I am wondering if it’s people reacting to this news. People here and in other places swore that if they said anyone who got the vaccine didn’t need to wear a mask that everyone would go in. Is this that surge in demand?
 

Flugell

Well-Known Member
Well! Wasn’t expecting relaxation of everything for the vaccinated today.
Congratulations to all those that have been asking for this for the last few days/weeks and I sincerely hope that it works out well for you.

For those that are unable to receive the vaccinations for medical reasons, or for whom they are far less effective, I fear that you will have many more months of isolating and avoiding crowds. I hope that if the CDC’s calculations (hopes/gamble) are correct it will not stretch forward in perpetuity and you too will be able to take your rightful place in society before too long.

In the meantime enjoy your rediscovered freedoms with a big smile, that everyone can see, on your faces!
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
Shot and wait time over: she watched him do it lol. Pharmacist asked us to stick around the 15 minutes especially since this is the first day of her age group vs alot of older individuals have been leaving right after. Actually explained it's because they have epinephrine on hand for any severe reactions. No biggie.
 

CatesMom

Well-Known Member
My 13yo is getting her first shot Sunday afternoon. She's in an (outdoor) theater show this weekend, and has a high school entrance exam on Saturday, June 5, so we arranged her doses to avoid any potential side effects getting in the way. These kids and their social schedules! But at least she should have both doses before we head to Disney the following week. She can celebrate full vaccination while we are there.
 

danlb_2000

Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t this need to get past Whitmer’s desk? Judging by the headlines, I think she’d be in favor of getting out the shot by any ethical means. A CVS coupon is far from unethical (and the flu shot norm)

I don't know if it will pass in Michigan or not, but these sorts of laws are being considered in a bunch of states. Not sure if any other state is going as far as to ban all incentives.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's a public health guidance, not a personal one. Don't mix up the goals of the guidance, they're trying to shape the public health problem not a specific individual's health decisions. As you point out, they're not the same.

There will be incredible pressure for number 2. Every group that was falling back on "we're following the CDC guidance" even if they were not following everything will feel pressure to do number 2.

I agree that number 3 is a nightmare. No business wants to create the possibility of more conflict.

We may be fine. The dropping graph is a pretty steep slope. Lots of the drop is based on "First Dose" not "Fully Vaccinated" so ignoring that difference may not matter.

I'm certain we will see news stories, hear tales from others, and definitely from the "hoax" group, that with this announcement, we're done, Pandemic over in the US.

Some counties will hold out some, but with this, I'll bet everywhere is just done and open by June 1, no matter what the numbers say. That's what makes me sad, since I don't think the numbers will be there by June 1. Before the fall for sure, maybe even as early as July 1, but not by June 1. I hope to be wrong, but I'm willing to bet a beer that that graph is going to flatten at a level higher than we want it to.
I don’t think every place will go to no masks anywhere by June 1. Some states already set thresholds which they aren’t likely to change.

The CDC is providing guidlines and recommendations based on the science. They are saying that a fully vaccinated person is at low enough risk for being a spreader of Covid that they no longer need to wear a mask anywhere. Remember we wear the mask to protect others. An unvaccinated person is still the same risk as ever of beimg a spreader. That’s the science. The CDC is silent on what an individual business should do with that guideline. They aren’t recommending business policy just providing guidance based on the available science. If a business had a way to determine everyone was vaccinated who entered then the science says it’s safe to have nobody masked. The issue with determining who is vaccinated and who isn’t is a logistical nightmare. It should be up to individual businesses to decide how they address it. If it’s too difficult to determine in a practical way then they can’t act on the guidance.
 

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