Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Chomama

Well-Known Member
It is factual that big 10 was seeing kids with new heart damage from Covid 19. Enough to feel unsafe playing. The concern is that the heart damage combined with the heavy exertion from football could cause permanent damage or even death. I am
Not saying anyone knows of that damage will be permanent but the big 10 did not feel it was worth the risk to find out what happens when a student athlete has myocarditis from
Covid
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
It is factual that big 10 was seeing kids with new heart damage from Covid 19. Enough to feel unsafe playing. The concern is that the heart damage combined with the heavy exertion from football could cause permanent damage or even death. I am
Not saying anyone knows of that damage will be permanent but the big 10 did not feel it was worth the risk to find out what happens when a student athlete has myocarditis from
Covid
When do we get claims that these are just previously undiagnosed conditions? That athletes didn’t notice fatigue, shortness of breath and chest pain?
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I imagine these kids are going to have a greater chance of getting Covid not playing football this season than actually having the season and playing. Just my opinion though. :)
With the Big Ten I think their concern was that players who had Covid and didn’t even know it could have this swelling around their heart and exertion like playing football could result in a heart attack.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Yeah, but you know football players: They're so easily cowed by fear mongering, those wusses.
As a non athlete, I’ll assume you are just being silly here.

Meanwhile the players want to play. Are begging to play. Takes about two seconds to look that info up.

 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
When do we get claims that these are just previously undiagnosed conditions? That athletes didn’t notice fatigue, shortness of breath and chest pain?
No. Myocarditis is a common side effect of basically all viral and bacterial infections. You know this already though.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
With the Big Ten I think their concern was that players who had Covid and didn’t even know it could have this swelling around their heart and exertion like playing football could result in a heart attack.
I have a hard time believing that was the big 10s main concern. But I have no proof otherwise so I should probably stop short of making accusations. I just think it is likely safer for the kids to have the season than not, if we are talking Covid.
 

Chomama

Well-Known Member
No. Myocarditis is a common side effect of basically all viral and bacterial infections. You know this already though.
It can be, yes. But there are too many players that are showing this on their scans for the decision makers to feel comfortable making the call. It was NOT an easy decision and there are huge losses for players and schools for not playing. This wasn’t taken lightly or giving into fear mongering. The decision makers agree that it could be typical virus response but they just don’t know ans they aren’t willing to risk it. The PERCENTAGE of scanned athletes who had Covid previously And had these issues was just too high.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I have a hard time believe that was the big 10s main concern. But I have no proof otherwise so I should probably stop short of making accusations. I just think it is likely safer for the kids to have the season than not.
I don’t know what each president was thinking when they voted but that was put out there as one of the big reasons. Could be fake news.

 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
I don’t know what each president was thinking when they voted but that was put out there as one of the big reasons. Could be fake news.


if that’s what they said, that’s what they said. Who am I to question...
 

Chomama

Well-Known Member
I have a hard time believing that was the big 10s main concern. But I have no proof otherwise so I should probably stop short of making accusations. I just think it is likely safer for the kids to have the season than not, if we are talking Covid.
I can confirm that this was the exact concern. Will not reveal source directly but will say it is an immediate family member who is, in fact, a big 10 decision maker, who has been facing constant pressure and a very long spring and summer related to these types of decisions on a university campus. It’s just very complicated.
 

Chomama

Well-Known Member
I don’t know what each president was thinking when they voted but that was put out there as one of the big reasons. Could be fake news.

This was a conversation in our family 2 months ago at least. It’s a very real concern and not new
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
I can confirm that this was the exact concern. Will not reveal source directly but will say it is an immediate family member who is, in fact, a big 10 decision maker, who has been facing constant pressure and a very long spring and summer related to these types of decisions on a university campus. It’s just very complicated.
I am sure they assessed the risk on both sides of the equation...hm
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
No. Myocarditis is a common side effect of basically all viral and bacterial infections. You know this already though.

According to this article, myocarditis is less common with the flu than what is estimated from COVID-19 (according to the article I linked earlier that said 10-20%). That would make it approximately twice as common with COVID-19.

On the other hand, while many people are affected by seasonal influenza every year, complications in nonrespiratory tissues (e.g., encephalopathy, myocarditis, and myopathy) occur only occasionally [17]. The frequency of myocardial involvement in influenza infection varies (0–10%) depending on the diagnostic criteria, and fulminant myocarditis associated with seasonal influenza infection is rare, as shown in previous papers [14, 9, 12, 13, 1523]. Indeed, only two (2/505, 0.4%) myocarditis cases were reported in 505 children admitted with laboratory-confirmed influenza during the 2003/2004 season in Canada.


The 20% estimate for COVID-19 patients is also cited here:

Data from China, published in JAMA Cardiology in March, indicated up to 20 percent of COVID-19 patients experience cardiovascular complications caused by the coronavirus.

 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
I have a hard time believing that was the big 10s main concern. But I have no proof otherwise so I should probably stop short of making accusations. I just think it is likely safer for the kids to have the season than not, if we are talking Covid.
The schools aren't kicking the athletes out though. They can still live on campus, use the facilities, access medical and testing, tutors, weight room etc. So all the "structure" that people feel the athletes need to be safe, they still have. The only things they are missing is practice (although some schools are still practicing) and the games themselves. Elimination of the physical activities that have the greatest potential for unpredictable COVID effects.

And yes, liability is a concern. However, if you really don't think something is dangerous, and you've confident you've taken all reasonable precautions how big could the fear of actually being found liable be? You worry about liability, when you know something is dangerous enough that judgement against you is possible.

No. Myocarditis is a common side effect of basically all viral and bacterial infections. You know this already though.
It is not a "common" side effect. It is a known side effect. The virus most likely to cause myocarditis, something called Coxsackie B, causes it at a rate of .5% of patients. The rate for all viruses, prior to COVID, is 1%, so half come from Coxsackie B. COVID is as stated 10-20% of patients. Thanks to epiTwitter for knowing that, lol.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The schools aren't kicking the athletes out though. They can still live on campus, use the facilities, access medical and testing, tutors, weight room etc. So all the "structure" that people feel the athletes need to be safe, they still have. The only things they are missing is practice (although some schools are still practicing) and the games themselves. Elimination of the physical activities that have the greatest potential for unpredictable COVID effects.

And yes, liability is a concern. However, if you really don't think something is dangerous, and you've confident you've taken all reasonable precautions how big could the fear of actually being found liable be? You worry about liability, when you know something is dangerous enough that judgement against you is possible.


It is not a "common" side effect. It is a known side effect. The virus most likely to cause myocarditis, something called Coxsackie B, causes it at a rate of .5% of patients. The rate for all viruses, prior to COVID, is 1%, so half come from Coxsackie B. COVID is as stated 10-20% of patients. Thanks to epiTwitter for knowing that, lol.
I imagine most of the players will continue to work out in some capacity. They are still talking about trying for a Spring season so they will want to stay in shape.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
This article is not meant for everyone. But I thought some of you might appreciate it.

"30.4%. That’s what the overall coronavirus case increase was for parts of South Carolina without a mask mandate, while overall cases dropped 15.1% in areas with mandates, according to the Department of Health and Environmental Control. "

 

Chi84

Premium Member
unless you’re California ;)
Illinois has had mandatory masks since May 1 and our cases are going up now - from a 2.6 positivity rate to 4.1. I think it’s because people are not staying home as much anymore and are not social distancing the way they were. Masks can only do so much.

I’m all for wearing masks or anything else that helps curb this virus. But according to the CDC the virus is primarily spread by close indoor contact for 15 minutes or more. If people are socializing more, it’s going to have a much greater impact than someone walking by you in Home Depot without a mask.
 
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