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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion (Now with optimism!)

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I also think there is an argument there that the people who are not going to follow the rules... already haven't been.
NC had a mask mandate but it wasn't enforced. So I can only speak for my home state when I say that the people I saw not wearing a mask, are probably anti vaxxers... and also drive Tahoes.
MA has had strict mandates with $300 fines attached for violations (though I haven't heard of anyone being fined) until very recently.

I lost track of how many people were pretending to not know how a mask works or who had their mask so loose you could see their entire mouth.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
No but Walmart and businesses like them should have kept masks indoors for everyone til whatever vaccination threshold they deem good. I would feel much better if all parks follow what the California parks are doing in requiring proof of vaccination for entry.
Are you vaccinated? If so, why would you feel better if all parks followed CA?

Once you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially zero risk from COVID. You could get infected but if you do you are not likely to get seriously ill. You were at much higher risk from dozens of other things in your life before COVID existed than you are from COVID if you're fully vaccinated.
 

Nickp1983

Well-Known Member
MA has had strict mandates with $300 fines attached for violations (though I haven't heard of anyone being fined) until very recently.

I lost track of how many people were pretending to not know how a mask works or who had their mask so loose you could see their entire mouth.
Lots of chin diapers. I saw it too. As I said elsewhere. I'm fully vaccinated and I still wore a mask today even at places that didn't require them. Just felt strange not to.

For here in NC, obviously the cut off sleeve, Tahoe driving middle aged dude with poltical stickers was the #1 non mask wearer... but interestingly enough, the elderly was #2. That was shocking to me..

For me right now. My son has his 1st shot and until he is free and clear. I'll wear a mask alongside him. We're in this together so I want to encourage him to do the right thing.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's taking a major mental toll on her. Children aren't the only ones who suffer emotionally from isolation.

EDIT: And yes, this is an unusual call for a generally cautious administration. I'm curious to know what's going on behind the scenes.
I think it’s an educated gamble and a political move. The prior complaint was that the vaccine effort was stalling because people saw no benefit to getting vaccinated. That excuse is off the table. Now the administration can’t be blamed for causing the vaccination effort to stall. If the vaccination effort is actually helped thats an added bonus. The downside is if cases surge it will look like a bad call, but at this point a large number of states have reached the tipping point on vaccination even if we aren’t there nationally. Keeping mask mandates around Fpr fully vaccinated people wasn’t going to move the needle on vaccinations.

Everything the CDC did was by the book 100% in agreement with the science. We wore masks and distanced to avoid Infecting other people with Covid. The vaccines are highly effective in both preventing infection and preventing spread so a fully vaccinated person is little risk of spreading covid. If the reason we wore masks is to prevent spread and the fully vaccinated person is very little risk of causing spread then there’s no reason for them to have to distance or wear a mask. The science is not disputable.

Where the rub comes in is applying that science to public health policy. How do you know who is vaccinated in a public setting? The CDC and by extension the Federal Government has punted the decision on how to implement that science in practice. It’s not the CDCs job to set policies for states or businesses but they had to know that putting this guidance out was going to put a lot of them in impossible situations. From a political prospective it’s probably savvy to punt that to someone else. I think that’s probably part of what‘s going on behind the scenes.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Lots of chin diapers. I saw it too. As I said elsewhere. I'm fully vaccinated and I still wore a mask today even at places that didn't require them. Just felt strange not to.

For here in NC, obviously the cut off sleeve, Tahoe driving middle aged dude with poltical stickers was the #1 non mask wearer... but interestingly enough, the elderly was #2. That was shocking to me..

For me right now. My son has his 1st shot and until he is free and clear. I'll wear a mask alongside him. We're in this together so I want to encourage him to do the right thing.
We have the Tahoe dudes, people approaching elderly but not really elderly yet and trying to use it to their advantage, plus the pick-up driving racists, plus the Peg Bundy-type moms, plus the yoga-pants-wearing "I'm better than you" anti-vaxx moms...fun stuff.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I think it’s an educated gamble and a political move. The prior complaint was that the vaccine effort was stalling because people saw no benefit to getting vaccinated. That excuse is off the table. Now the administration can’t be blamed for causing the vaccination effort to stall. If the vaccination effort is actually helped thats an added bonus. The downside is if cases surge it will look like a bad call, but at this point a large number of states have reached the tipping point on vaccination even if we aren’t there nationally. Keeping mask mandates around Fpr fully vaccinated people wasn’t going to move the needle on vaccinations.

Everything the CDC did was by the book 100% in agreement with the science. We wore masks and distanced to avoid Infecting other people with Covid. The vaccines are highly effective in both preventing infection and preventing spread so a fully vaccinated person is little risk of spreading covid. If the reason we wore masks is to prevent spread and the fully vaccinated person is very little risk of causing spread then there’s no reason for them to have to distance or wear a mask. The science is not disputable.

Where the rub comes in is applying that science to public health policy. How do you know who is vaccinated in a public setting? The CDC and by extension the Federal Government has punted the decision on how to implement that science in practice. It’s not the CDCs job to set policies for states or businesses but they had to know that putting this guidance out was going to put a lot of them in impossible situations. From a political prospective it’s probably savvy to punt that to someone else. I think that’s probably part of what‘s going on behind the scenes.
I agree with the punting...and I think it was shameful and irresponsible.
 

Nickp1983

Well-Known Member
We have the Tahoe dudes, people approaching elderly but not really elderly yet and trying to use it to their advantage, plus the pick-up driving racists, plus the Peg Bundy-type moms, plus the yoga-pants-wearing "I'm better than you" anti-vaxx moms...fun stuff.
Oh the yoga pants moms with the Karen haircut... Starbucks latte... who drive Yukons and claim that vaccinated people shed the virus might be my new favorite.

The anti vaxx movement dumbfounds me. My wife when she was vaccinated back in Jan, was so proud. She posted a picture and put it on Facebook. Of course she was attached by her uncle... who wears cut off sleeves and drives a Tahoe (for the record). I've was furious... probably shouldn't have told him "if you cared about what you put in your body you wouldn't be an obese drunk"... but... it got us out of going to his house for Christmas this year. Win win.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I agree with the punting...and I think it was shameful and irresponsible.
Depends if it works. Hindsight is 20/20 but if we get to 70-75% of adults vaccinated anyway and there’s no surge in cases it will look like a politically genius move. If the vaccination effort slows or there is some unlikely major surge in cases I think the masses will agree with you. That’s politics for you....I hate politics :)
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Depends if it works. Hindsight is 20/20 but if we get to 70-75% of adults vaccinated anyway and there’s no surge in cases it will look like a politically genius move. If the vaccination effort slows or there is some unlikely major surge in cases I think the masses will agree with you. That’s politics for you....I hate politics :)
I think we're going to see pockets where the virus keeps circulating and cases plateau if not continue in bumps.
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
No but Walmart and businesses like them should have kept masks indoors for everyone til whatever vaccination threshold they deem good. I would feel much better if all parks follow what the California parks are doing in requiring proof of vaccination for entry.
That is outlawed in Florida:

 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Oh the yoga pants moms with the Karen haircut... Starbucks latte... who drive Yukons and claim that vaccinated people shed the virus might be my new favorite.

The anti vaxx movement dumbfounds me. My wife when she was vaccinated back in Jan, was so proud. She posted a picture and put it on Facebook. Of course she was attached by her uncle... who wears cut off sleeves and drives a Tahoe (for the record). I've was furious... probably shouldn't have told him "if you cared about what you put in your body you wouldn't be an obese drunk"... but... it got us out of going to his house for Christmas this year. Win win.
I almost became an anti-vaxxer when my now 15-year-old was a baby. What draws you in is fear because no one explains how vaccines work in simple terms...they're just some juice you get a shot of that keeps you from getting sick. And the anti-vaxx rhetoric has been around for SO LONG that the concerns seem valid at first, so you start looking around to make sure you do your due diligence and don't accidentally harm your child. And the MINUTE an anti-vaxxer sees that you're curious - they pounce. And they're vicious. If they think they're losing you, they'll go so far as to tell you you're going to make your child autistic, that you're poisoning them, etc. etc. They are the epitome of adult bullies.

I had to do some deep-dive research for a few weeks before I found anything REAL that I could base my decision on.

ETA: for the record, my 2 sons are autistic. NO, they didn't get their autism from vaccines.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I almost became an anti-vaxxer when my now 15-year-old was a baby. What draws you in is fear because no one explains how vaccines work in simple terms...they're just some juice you get a shot of that keeps you from getting sick. And the anti-vaxx rhetoric has been around for SO LONG that the concerns seem valid at first, so you start looking around to make sure you do your due diligence and don't accidentally harm your child. And the MINUTE an anti-vaxxer sees that you're curious - they pounce. And they're vicious. If they think they're losing you, they'll go so far as to tell you you're going to make your child autistic, that you're poisoning them, etc. etc. They are the epitome of adult bullies.

I had to do some deep-dive research for a few weeks before I found anything REAL that I could base my decision on.

ETA: for the record, my 2 sons are autistic. NO, they didn't get their autism from vaccines.
To add...

My cousin (who I was best friends with growing up), is now falling for the anti-covid-vaxx rhetoric. I tried to be kind, understanding, and informative. I said if she was really concerned, that she should watch what happens over the next 3 weeks and then reconsider because the vaccine material doesn't stay in your system for more than a few days. I also informed her that my oldest has had his first shot, and the only side-effect he had was a sore arm. Hopefully, she listens.
 

Nickp1983

Well-Known Member
I think we're going to see pockets where the virus keeps circulating and cases plateau if not continue in bumps.
That's inevitable at this point. Masks or no masks. The virus will be an epidemic

At the end if the day, it's not about cases... its about hospitalizations. We've come a long way and if we can keep those numbers down, that was supposed to be the entire point of what occurred back in March of 2020.

My take is that the cdc believes we are in a good place hospitalization wise.
1. Vaccinations (at least 1 dose) and natural immunity is above 50%
2. The elderly, who have the highest risk, have the majority vaccinated
3. The remaining unvaccinated have a better chance of not having serious covid
4. Summer months should help keep numbers down.
5. Advanced treatment methods that keep improving.

We'll see where we end up by Thanksgiving...
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I almost became an anti-vaxxer when my now 15-year-old was a baby. What draws you in is fear because no one explains how vaccines work in simple terms...they're just some juice you get a shot of that keeps you from getting sick. And the anti-vaxx rhetoric has been around for SO LONG that the concerns seem valid at first, so you start looking around to make sure you do your due diligence and don't accidentally harm your child. And the MINUTE an anti-vaxxer sees that you're curious - they pounce. And they're vicious. If they think they're losing you, they'll go so far as to tell you you're going to make your child autistic, that you're poisoning them, etc. etc. They are the epitome of adult bullies.

I had to do some deep-dive research for a few weeks before I found anything REAL that I could base my decision on.

ETA: for the record, my 2 sons are autistic. NO, they didn't get their autism from vaccines.
Speaking of that topic I saw this earlier:

Apparently 65% of the false info on Covid vaccines circulating on social media originated form a dozen individuals often using multiple accounts. The majority of these people push the anti-vaxx ideas because they profit from it by either selling books or alternative medicines and supplements. Disgusting human beings.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
That's inevitable at this point. Masks or no masks. The virus will be an epidemic

At the end if the day, it's not about cases... its about hospitalizations. We've come a long way and if we can keep those numbers down, that was supposed to be the entire point of what occurred back in March of 2020.

My take is that the cdc believes we are in a good place hospitalization wise.
1. Vaccinations (at least 1 dose) and natural immunity is above 50%
2. The elderly, who have the highest risk, have the majority vaccinated
3. The remaining unvaccinated have a better chance of not having serious covid
4. Summer months should help keep numbers down.
5. Advanced treatment methods that keep improving.

We'll see where we end up by Thanksgiving...
Oh, I know. It's just so infuriating that the (roughly) same group of people keep screwing things up for the rest of us who have continued to work hard, and now they've been rewarded.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Speaking of that topic I saw this earlier:

Apparently 65% of the false info on Covid vaccines circulating on social media originated form a dozen individuals often using multiple accounts. The majority of these people push the anti-vaxx ideas because they profit from it by either selling books or alternative medicines and supplements. Disgusting human beings.
Gee...doesn't that sound familiar? Like Jenny McCarthy. I can't stand her.
 

Nickp1983

Well-Known Member
I almost became an anti-vaxxer when my now 15-year-old was a baby. What draws you in is fear because no one explains how vaccines work in simple terms...they're just some juice you get a shot of that keeps you from getting sick. And the anti-vaxx rhetoric has been around for SO LONG that the concerns seem valid at first, so you start looking around to make sure you do your due diligence and don't accidentally harm your child. And the MINUTE an anti-vaxxer sees that you're curious - they pounce. And they're vicious. If they think they're losing you, they'll go so far as to tell you you're going to make your child autistic, that you're poisoning them, etc. etc. They are the epitome of adult bullies.

I had to do some deep-dive research for a few weeks before I found anything REAL that I could base my decision on.

ETA: for the record, my 2 sons are autistic. NO, they didn't get their autism from vaccines.
I feel you. I tend to forget I'm rather privileged in my life. My wifes a Pharmacist. My moms an RN. 2 cousins are RNs. 2 aunts are RNs. A cousin who is a doctor. And my best friend works at the Mayo clinic as a surgeon. So I tend to be able to get my worries and questions answered with a simple text.

But on top of that. My sister is a Anti Vaxxer QAnom. So.... ya. Family dinners are interesting.
 

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