News Coronado Springs Expansion - Gran Destino Tower

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
Why couldn’t Disney do something simple like this if the story is so important? It could all be done as carved stucco. Even on the interior, filleting the corners would go a long way towards reducing the stark contrast.
Cause story isn't that important?

Or at least story that costs significant capital outlay without a foreseeable ROI, isn't that important?

Though, there is quite a bit of stucco in FL, so one would think they could have found the necessary contractors to create such items at a reasonable expense.

Could have also just texture painted custom fypon details and that would have given it a more sculptural look.
 

Sam Magic

Well-Known Member
In terms of theming and story telling this resort could be a lot better. It's still a very nice and very beautiful hotel it just clashes with the Disney tradition. All I can simply hope for is that Disney went with a more watered down approach to appease conventioneers.

In other words, I hope the buck stops here as far as Disney building resorts with lazy theming. I won't hold my breath, but I'll hope. Disney can and should do better. Disney should never settle for 'just okay' and 'nice enough', it should always push beyond that because pushing the boundaries of what we expect or think we want is what has always made Disney 'Disney'.

For those of you who love this new resort, great. I'm glad that you're pleased with the final product. Please just understand that some other fans are as disappointed as you are pleased. What I think we can all agree on is that we expect Disney to deliver high-quality facilities and experiences.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
"The starting point for the project was to celebrate Spanish, Mexican and South American cultures, including food, music, colors, design and textiles," said David Stofcik, executive architect at Walt Disney Imagineering.
“As we started getting into it, especially from the Spanish side, we discovered an amazing collaboration that Disney had with Salvador Dali from Spain. And we really started to look into that from a graphic scenic kind of standpoint, colors,” Stofcik said.*

Hmmm... like some sort of Contempofusion Hispania motif...


*
 

note2001

Well-Known Member
The artists in us certainly would have liked to have seen Disney push the boundaries and have a tower facade that looked like it was melting and other Daliesque touches.

But I don't think the conventioneers would have been into that. This tower was made for the high-roller conventioneer. Subtle touches and grand non-threatening architectural elements was the best compromise one would expect.
I have a new life goal: build a beautiful melting house. Might be hard to keep the furniture in place though. 🤣
 

voodoo321

Well-Known Member
Is there really a Disney Imagineering department anymore? in any meaningful sense? These project designs are outsourced, as are things like Tron coaster. There just can't possibly be a team of Imagineers that are given any sort of creative decision making power anymore. The ones that are left sold their souls a long time ago. I'm not chastising them for it. They have no choice. It's the way the company operates now.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Ruling out a materials or time issue, too risky in a market that loves minimalism in hotel design. Call me cynical but I don't think the consumer market would respond favorably to it, to look like somewhere they would want to stay.

And might seem too 'out of place', increasing the obvious differences between the existing resort and the new building.
(Didn't they re-paint some? I haven't seen it.)
What issue of materials? The tower is already stucco. If the market doesn’t like the concept, then develop a new concept. According to this thread, convention goers are an odd lot who demand their buildings to be regular, uniform and the same but also demand unique furniture and finishings.

Though, there is quite a bit of stucco in FL, so one would think they could have found the necessary contractors to create such items at a reasonable expense.
Nassal just built a moss covered Gothic ruin out of stucco. There are no bricks on Duff Gardens or the new Sesame Street, all hand carved stucco. Some of the guys who do brick carving even do it completely free hand. I imagine some curves would be something they could handle.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
What issue of materials? The tower is already stucco. If the market doesn’t like the concept, then develop a new concept. According to this thread, convention goers are an odd lot who demand their buildings to be regular, uniform and the same but also demand unique furniture and finishings.
The pic I posted was for stonework, which isn't something I would expect Disney to replicate for a hotel. I imagine that doing it right would be labor-intensive. Maybe for a boutique-style hotel (like SW), but I wouldn't expect it at this scale. As for as the interior design goes - this is an on-trend example, via AD:
388999


Someone tell me again how the Gran Destino lobby isn't 'Disney' enough, because I think that with its bold patterns and colors, it's the Disney version of this. Consumers don't want something 'in your face' or over-the-top. IMO despite the fact that it's Dali (who was larger than life), and Disney, it doesn't need to be.

Re: consumer markets. Business travelers are increasingly leisure travelers, too. WDW fits the bill for that as a vacation destination, when it might otherwise be considered just a 'family destination'. IMO this hotel would entice people (eg without kids or with older kids) to stay on-property at Disney who otherwise wouldn't. As for luxury travelers, if they want to see contoured architecture like Gaudi, they are just going to go to Spain...
(Disney probably could price these rooms higher given the novelty, but they aren't because that's not the market they want.)
 
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Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Is there really a Disney Imagineering department anymore? in any meaningful sense? These project designs are outsourced, as are things like Tron coaster. There just can't possibly be a team of Imagineers that are given any sort of creative decision making power anymore. The ones that are left sold their souls a long time ago. I'm not chastising them for it. They have no choice. It's the way the company operates now.
TRON hate continues in this thread too I see..
 

voodoo321

Well-Known Member
The pic I posted was for stonework, which isn't something I would expect Disney to replicate for a hotel. I imagine that doing it right would be labor-intensive. Maybe for a boutique-style hotel (like SW), but I wouldn't expect it at this scale. As for as the interior design goes - this is an on-trend example, via AD:
View attachment 388999

Someone tell me again how the Gran Destino lobby isn't 'Disney' enough, because I think that with its bold patterns and colors, it's the Disney version of this. Consumers don't want something 'in your face' or over-the-top. IMO despite the fact that it's Dali (who was larger than life), and Disney, it doesn't need to be.

Re: consumer markets. Business travelers are increasingly leisure travelers, too. WDW fits the bill for that as a vacation destination, when it might otherwise be considered just a 'family destination'. IMO this hotel would entice people (eg without kids or with older kids) to stay on-property at Disney who otherwise wouldn't. As for luxury travelers, if they want to see contoured architecture like Gaudi, they are just going to go to Spain...
(Disney probably could price these rooms higher given the novelty, but they aren't because that's not the market they want.)
No
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
It's possible that Disney wanted to give convention-goers a layout they're familiar with. Nothing wrong with that as a goal.
I imagine that the less overt attention to theming and storytelling in large part has to do with the fact that convention business is naturally going to be different from their usual clientele. There are plenty of people in this world who find Disney kind of cheesy and, for example, would roll their eyes at the idea of staying in a giant recreation of a national park lodge in Central Florida. So I sense that they're trying to reach some midway point between a nice business hotel that will compare favourably to what conventioneers are used to and a themed Disney resort that appeals as much as possible to their traditional market.

You can argue that Disney should just be Disney and not dilute its brand in trying to appeal to those who don't like its products. In general, I would agree with that. However, conventions are obviously lucrative for Disney and the people who attend them have to go wherever they're held. Personally, I think I would also really appreciate the amenities that this hotel offers. Particularly if I happened to be travelling by myself, I think this would be one of the more appealing options on property.
 
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larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
At some point, TDO must hate sites like this, because whenever they start a project and try to keep things quiet and confidential, it's like they're putting the project in a can, and there's a huge crowd of gawkers (us) standing around with giant can openers, ready to cut it open and dissect to the Nth detail every molecule of the effort.

Sometimes I don't blame them for dumbing things down... a lot less analysis to bear over that.

But, of course, that just excites and energizes the "Disney is dumbing everything down" crowd.
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
Why, or how, isn't the relationship between Dali and Disney a 'good enough' story?

This is getting ridiculous.

Because that's not the story. Disney themselves state it's only a coincidence. See the quote from Stofcik @MisterPenguin posted.

"The starting point for the project was to celebrate Spanish, Mexican and South American cultures, including food, music, colors, design and textiles," said David Stofcik, executive architect at Walt Disney Imagineering.
As we started getting into it, especially from the Spanish side, we discovered an amazing collaboration that Disney had with Salvador Dali from Spain. And we really started to look into that from a graphic scenic kind of standpoint, colors,” Stofcik said.*

Hmmm... like some sort of Contempofusion Hispania motif...


*
At what point does the Contempofusion Hispania stop being a celebration of all things "Hispania" (which is such an odd concept considering the breadth of Hispanic culture) and become pandering to what consumers think Hispania culture (again, not sure there is such a thing) is/was?

Mesoamerica is not Catalonia. To try and smash them together as a theme does a disservice to both cultures and to the guest experience.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Because that's not the story. Disney themselves state it's only a coincidence. See the quote from Stofcik @MisterPenguin posted.
Stofcik is clearly referring to the creative process 'The starting point' to 'Started getting into it' within the parameter of 'Spanish'.

Btw, here's another quote from Stofcik in that link about the philosophical underpinnings of the design:
“We didn’t want to make it too much color everywhere,” Stofcik said. “If it was everywhere, then everybody’s screaming, screaming, screaming it’s too much. So we wanted to downplay and really pick our points.”

aka Minimalism. Just like I was saying yesterday, because to me it was already communicated in the design itself.
too risky in a market that loves minimalism in hotel design
Someone tell me again how the Gran Destino lobby isn't 'Disney' enough, because I think that with its bold patterns and colors, it's the Disney version of this. Consumers don't want something 'in your face' or over-the-top. IMO despite the fact that it's Dali (who was larger than life), and Disney, it doesn't need to be.
OTOH I don't disagree with you on this point:
pandering to what consumers think Hispania culture (again, not sure there is such a thing) is/was?
'Used-to-Rule Mexico, Mexico, Used-to-be Mexico'. ;)
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The pic I posted was for stonework, which isn't something I would expect Disney to replicate for a hotel. I imagine that doing it right would be labor-intensive. Maybe for a boutique-style hotel (like SW), but I wouldn't expect it at this scale.
The image is stonework, but actual stone is not required to create such an aesthetic. Just this year SeaWorld built Sesame Street full of brick facades but no actual bricks were used. Universal just built a fantastic Gothic ruin without a single stone, it is all steel and carved stucco. The tower is also a concrete structure, which could have easily been incorporated into such an aesthetic while still remaining rather simple as a structural system.

As for as the interior design goes - this is an on-trend example, via AD:
Someone tell me again how the Gran Destino lobby isn't 'Disney' enough, because I think that with its bold patterns and colors, it's the Disney version of this. Consumers don't want something 'in your face' or over-the-top. IMO despite the fact that it's Dali (who was larger than life), and Disney, it doesn't need to be.

Re: consumer markets. Business travelers are increasingly leisure travelers, too. WDW fits the bill for that as a vacation destination, when it might otherwise be considered just a 'family destination'. IMO this hotel would entice people (eg without kids or with older kids) to stay on-property at Disney who otherwise wouldn't. As for luxury travelers, if they want to see contoured architecture like Gaudi, they are just going to go to Spain...
(Disney probably could price these rooms higher given the novelty, but they aren't because that's not the market they want.)
It is not “Disney” enough because themed design is more than just interior decoration. Almost none of that aesthetic is carried to the walls or ceiling which are very planar. Some of the few arches in the building, the large windows, are bookended by large, square engaged columns. You were also previously referencing Guadí, an architect, so it seems particularly odd to claim that a lot of the design was inspired by the work of an architect, just not the actual architecture.

Specifically saying that the design is on trend seems to be supporting evidence for the claim that the design is something one could expect at other large, business oriented hotels. It also still begs the question of “Why insist on a concept that doesn’t work?” If Guadí or Dalí alone are too much, much less combined, then maybe do something else that better fits the budget and alleged market. Disney freely chose to do a concept that they themselves admit is too much for what they actually wanted.
 

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