News Coco Boat Ride Coming to Disney California Adventure

[coffeefan]

Here’s the other thing: The current iteration of the Pier is providing a loosely themed venue for Pixar properties that otherwise don’t really exist well sitting next to each other. And these properties are super valuable and super popular.

What possible theme replacement would enable Disney to still tell Wall Street “Hey, we’re milking Incredibles, Toy Story, Inside Out, and Coco for all they’re worth!” Frankly it’s the LACK of immersion that enables them to cram these IPs next to each other.

What would you replace it with if you really wanted to prioritize beauty and immersion without losing “Efficient IP Packing” ?

The pier itself is a limiting concept, chosen only because it was cheap to plug in off-the-shelf rides and an unthemed coaster. While the Pixar integration was mostly decorative, the area wasn't all that immersive to begin with. That's not to say it isn't enjoyable, since boardwalks and fairs are fun, but it just doesn't meet the asking price.

To answer your question: if your goal is to have a catch-all Pixar land to replace PP, you could simply drop the pier and choose a more transportive setting to pair with Pixar. I don't think any of the Pixar IPs inherently need a pier setting, so it shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

[MistaDee]

Well, those are the assumptions I think are relevant. Seeing how it hasn't stopped Disney before, I don't see why this would be a different case. But feel free to produce estimates based on your criteria.

I don’t believe a comparable precedent exists in Disney history to rip out such a large percentage of one of their parks: if my count is right this would be 9/18 attractions gone for the Pixar Pier area

That’s to say nothing of the nighttime show or the continued and ongoing investment in the area. Dino land does not remotely compare to what this would entail for either factor

 

[Professortango1]

Here’s the other thing: The current iteration of the Pier is providing a loosely themed venue for Pixar properties that otherwise don’t really exist well sitting next to each other. And these properties are super valuable and super popular.

What possible theme replacement would enable Disney to still tell Wall Street “Hey, we’re milking Incredibles, Toy Story, Inside Out, and Coco for all they’re worth!” Frankly it’s the LACK of immersion that enables them to cram these IPs next to each other.

What would you replace it with if you really wanted to prioritize beauty and immersion without losing “Efficient IP Packing” ?

You could easily have a cohesive Victorian Pier with themed in world nods and explorations of these properties. Keeping it as Paradise Pier allows for Pixar and Disney Animation based attractions to comingle as well as having generic nostalgic theming. It solves the problem of having the central icon of PIXAR Pier be Mickey Mouse. On the PIXAR Psl-Around.

The key is making the land feel nostalgic and real, not putting in fiberglass figures and a fake big happy meal.

Or go the full Pixar Route. Have the Incrediciaster made up of tinker toys and kinects. A toy version of a pier would at least be compelling with more to visually explore. Turning Incredicoster into Andy's Incredible toys he made a coaster around them fixes so many of cheap aspects of the current iteration. Imagine a preshow that's animated crayon drawings where Andy made a home video about The Incredibles fending off giant robots attacking the pier. Then we ride past you versions on this high speed adventure.

They had options, but instead they chose LA County Fair.

 

[coffeefan]

I don’t believe a comparable precedent exists in Disney history to rip out such a large percentage of one of their parks: if my count is right this would be 9/18 attractions gone for the Pixar Pier area

That’s to say nothing of the nighttime show or the continued and ongoing investment in the area. Dino land does not remotely compare to what this would entail for either factor

I wouldn't expect it all to be worked on at the same time. Also, if it were to happen, it would be after the current projects are completed. MM and TLM would probably survive, given their popularity and adaptability. Some other attractions may survive if they can work in a new themed land.

 

[britain]

It seems to me that both @coffeefan and @Professortango1 offered solutions that are “keep the rides where they are, just make the connective tissue better.” I agree they could and should do this. But we’re now far away from any “think of the cool land they could build by plowing down all that pier real estate.”

Maybe plowing it down isn’t what was being discussed and I assumed incorrectly. It just seems like these suggestions match my observation that they’re never going change the main bones of the land, they’ll just keep re-decorating it.

 

[DrStarlander]

It seems to me that both @coffeefan and @Professortango1 offered solutions that are “keep the rides where they are, just make the connective tissue better.” I agree they could and should do this. But we’re now far away from any “think of the cool land they could build by plowing down all that pier real estate.”

Maybe plowing it down isn’t what was being discussed and I assumed incorrectly. It just seems like these suggestions match my observation that they’re never going change the main bones of the land, they’ll just keep re-decorating it.

I totally agree with @Professortango1 that they either ought to go for the Victorian Pier (Main St. level of authenticity and detail) or a Toy Story/Andy's toys approach to the pier.

In the latter, for me, that means the pier is all Toy Story themed (e.g., Incredibles becomes Buzz Lightyear themed with rocket toy vehicles and Inside Out is replaced by green spacemen or whatever). They should replace the Mickey face on the ferris wheel with a screen that can change content. And I beg of them, put up a scenic backdrop (cute clouds drawn by Andy, etc.) to hide the dang power lines. And one more thing, rebuild that lamplight restaurant to look like a fantastical sand castle that Andy built, with shells and toys embedded, etc. It could be a much more imaginative landmark at that spot.

Coco would be a separate area and hopefully combined with Paradise Gardens/Santa Cecilia. It could still have mechanical rides as part of a Day of the Dead festival. But what I'd mostly want is the carousel moved from the pier over here with a Day of the Dead theme -- that would be insanely cool and feel appropriate in a town square -- and meanwhile one of the PG mechanical rides moved to where the carousel is, with another put into the empty east-side coaster turnaround -- to condense more amusement park stuff on the pier.

Each area (Toy Story and Coco) would be fulsome, immersive, and no kinetic energy or ride capacity needs to be lost.

I'd rather see Incredibles and Inside Out manifested with more integrity (e.g., storytelling) elsewhere in the resort. Both could probably work in Tomorrowland. For example, Inside Out being entered through a brain science symposium, then we are shrunk a la Adventure Thru Inner Space.

 

[coffeefan]

True, because theme park nerds have nostalgia for just about anything. But talking to non-fanatics, regular people, tourists in my home town who have been there, what I hear over and over is: Cars Land is amazing, but I don't need to go again.

And I think after a few decades, it's hard to change people's minds about something. Even with the new additions, it's an uphill marketing battle.

They should convert all that PP area (it's about 20 acres) into actual theme park space. And simultaneously, to have an amusement park like area for locals, for a fun after work sort of stop-by, and generate food and alcohol sales, they should move those rides and incorporate them into Downtown Disney. Intermix the rides with the retail to give DTD some life and perhaps draw some local traffic, because it's not a great shopping center, there's no draw. That would make DTD a more unique destination than it is now among So. Cal. retail centers. And families could buy a ride pass (say $50) and use it, and visit DTD, on their arrival or departure day. I think that would be almost like having a third gate in terms of a half-day park with F&B/retail right there near the hotels, etc.

If they did that, they could kill two birds with one stone. And since you mentioned it - some local shopping centers, such as the South Coast, LB Pike, and Irvine Spectrum, are already doing just that.

 

[coffeefan]

It seems to me that both @coffeefan and @Professortango1 offered solutions that are “keep the rides where they are, just make the connective tissue better.” I agree they could and should do this. But we’re now far away from any “think of the cool land they could build by plowing down all that pier real estate.”

Maybe plowing it down isn’t what was being discussed and I assumed incorrectly. It just seems like these suggestions match my observation that they’re never going change the main bones of the land, they’ll just keep re-decorating it.

I wouldn't want them to keep the off-the-shelf rides or the pier theme at DCA, actually. But it would make sense to keep the popular higher-budget attractions, MM and TLM specifically, though they might need to update their facades to fit a new land. That still leaves a lot of room for them to work with for a higher immersive land or two.

 

[DrStarlander]

If they did that, they could kill two birds with one stone. And since you mentioned it - some local shopping centers, such as the South Coast, LB Pike, and Irvine Spectrum, are already doing just that.

Absolutely, having entertainment as part of the "mix" (entertainment, F&B, retail) and getting the balance right (square-footage allocation of each) can be a critical part of successful centers. That usually means Cinemas, or like a Dave & Busters, but sometimes more out-there/innovative concepts like indoor zoos, aquariums, escape rooms, LEVEL99, laser tag, museums, etc., many possibilities.

Experiential retail/retailtainment like Build-A-Bear, American Girl, Bass/Cabella/REI, etc. can get people to drive to your center over another closer, less-fun center. These brands/concepts do come and go, like TV shows come and go, constantly needing reprogramming. They are not "forever." This is entertainment after all. Running a center is more like running a TV network or streaming service than people realize.

(That need for constant tweaking and reprogramming is why DTD's freestanding pavilions approach to architecture is so awful, they've made it as expensive as possible to re-purpose real estate compared to an inline approach where you just update the facade. They went Epcot Future World -- each building is a 360-degree architectural statement -- instead of Main St. -- facades with a warehouse behind them.)

Downtown Disney once had more entertainment (beyond Splitsville) with the AMC, ESPN Grill and Rainforest Cafe. I'm not a historian of DTD, because I was so turned off of DCA I really wasn't around there for about a decade. But the point is, I suspect it's lacking in the entertainment component now to draw locals (beyond Disney diehards) past the hurdles, and I think that's a big problem. A good mix of retail (not Lululemon, c'mon Disney) and rides in a festival marketplace could be a lot of fun.

 

[mickEblu]

Absolutely, having entertainment as part of the "mix" (entertainment, F&B, retail) and getting the balance right (square-footage allocation of each) can be a critical part of successful centers. That usually means Cinemas, or like a Dave & Busters, but sometimes more out-there/innovative concepts like indoor zoos, aquariums, escape rooms, LEVEL99, laser tag, museums, etc., many possibilities.

Experiential retail/retailtainment like Build-A-Bear, American Girl, Bass/Cabella/REI, etc. can get people to drive to your center over another closer, less-fun center. These brands/concepts do come and go, like TV shows come and go, constantly needing reprogramming. They are not "forever." This is entertainment after all. Running a center is more like running a TV network or streaming service than people realize.

(That need for constant tweaking and reprogramming is why DTD's freestanding pavilions approach to architecture is so awful, they've made it as expensive as possible to re-purpose real estate compared to an inline approach where you just update the facade. They went Epcot Future World -- each building is a 360-degree architectural statement -- instead of Main St. -- facades with a warehouse behind them.)

Downtown Disney once had more entertainment (beyond Splitsville) with the AMC, ESPN Grill and Rainforest Cafe. I'm not a historian of DTD, because I was so turned off of DCA I really wasn't around there for about a decade. But the point is, I suspect it's lacking in the entertainment component now to draw locals (beyond Disney diehards) past the hurdles, and I think that's a big problem. A good mix of retail (not Lululemon, c'mon Disney) and rides in a festival marketplace could be a lot of fun.

It would bring more locals in but I think they haven’t gone this route as it would discourage some from buying passes or tickets for the parks. Granted you’re not getting characters or the likes of Pirates, HM and rollercoasters but if you have rides, Mickey balloons, fun food and Disney shopping maybe some people lie to their kids and say “we took you to Disneyland.” Lol

 

[J4546]

Turn that terrible ESPN/Lulu building in DTD into a new disney quest with ticket redemption games

 

[mickEblu]

Turn that terrible ESPN/Lulu building in DTD into a new disney quest with ticket redemption games

No fun for us. Only @$$ tight pants. That’s what we get.

 

[DrStarlander]

It would bring more locals in but I think they haven’t gone this route as it would discourage some from buying passes or tickets for the parks. Granted you’re not getting characters or the likes of Pirates, HM and rollercoasters but if you have rides, Mickey balloons, fun food and Disney shopping maybe some people lie to their kids and say “we took you to Disneyland.” Lol

I understand your point, I always was surprised at World of Disney and Avengers and Star Wars stores as they would seem somewhat cannibalistic. DTD is so bad though I'd take the risk if I were them, they could always yank the rides. But I think it would be a fun place and a better site for off-the-shelf rides than behind the $$$$ theme park paywall.

 

[coffeefan]

I understand your point, I always was surprised at World of Disney and Avengers and Star Wars stores as they would seem somewhat cannibalistic. DTD is so bad though I'd take the risk if I were them, they could always yank the rides. But I think it would be a fun place and a better site for off-the-shelf rides than behind the $$$$ theme park paywall.

It would be interesting to see how they’d manage these attractions at DTD. One possibility could be including them with Park Hopper tickets to give people a reason to spend time at DTD. They could also be selective with the IPs they choose, such as promotional tie-ins for new movies and show releases.

 

[Disney Irish]

Lets face it, the Pier is not likely being torn down anytime in the next 25 years, and seriously doubt they would even retheme it again at this point. DCA will turn 50 and we'll still have Pixar Pier.

 

[mickEblu]

Lets face it, the Pier is not likely being torn down anytime in the next 25 years, and seriously doubt they would even retheme it again at this point. DCA will turn 50 and we'll still have Pixar Pier.

I agree. I’d settle for the scream tunnels being repainted blue and the Buzz happy meal box going away. And maybe if they want to retheme the rest of the carny rides to Pixar for consistencies sake.

 

[coffeefan]

Lets face it, the Pier is not likely being torn down anytime in the next 25 years, and seriously doubt they would even retheme it again at this point. DCA will turn 50 and we'll still have Pixar Pier.

Dinoland USA, Rivers of America MK, Tomorrowland, TDL Adventureland.
It's not as impossible, and land is more of a premium at DLR, thus replacements are bound to happen at some point.

 

[mickEblu]

Dinoland USA, Rivers of America MK, Tomorrowland, TDL Adventureland.
It's not as impossible, and land is more of a premium at DLR, thus replacements are bound to happen at some point.

Not saying it can’t ever happen but I don’t see it happening anytime in the next 20-25 years. They would likely need to be out of expansion pads to even consider it and by then they’d have enough capacity at DCA potentially to absorb the likely loss in capacity that would come with a Pixar Pier removal.

 

[Disney Irish]

Dinoland USA, Rivers of America MK, Tomorrowland, TDL Adventureland.
It's not as impossible, and land is more of a premium at DLR, thus replacements are bound to happen at some point.

Pixar Pier IS the retheme equivalent to your examples, ie it was done just 8 years ago. Also last I checked TL at DL hasn't been torn down yet and has been sitting in its same state for over 25 years, sound familiar.

 

[coffeefan]

Pixar Pier IS the retheme equivalent to your examples, ie it was done just 8 years ago. Also last I checked TL at DL hasn't been torn down yet and has been sitting in its same state for over 25 years, sound familiar.

Except it isn’t the same. Pixar Pier is more like a sugar dressing application. The examples I mentioned have undergone, or will undergo, much more substantial land overhauls.