News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Incomudro]

I disagree.

I get why you're correcting that post, but Walt was alive when early planning was taking place, and a "Rivers of America" is visible in the concept art behind him in the EPCOT film.

Yes, it's not a stretch to say that he very much knew and wanted his east coast park to be a representation of his west coast park.
With the ability to be a whole lot more.

 

[danlb_2000]

Will the response to this be made public similar to the permit? Would you expect it to reveal much more about the project or just minimum to answer the questions/requests?

Yes, the response is normally added to the permit site. I assume Disney will try to provide the minimum required to satisfy the request.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, it's not a stretch to say that he very much knew and wanted his east coast park to be a representation of his west coast park.
With the ability to be a whole lot more.

The second park was known Disneyland East and used Disneyland as a placeholder, but he also said there wouldn’t be another Disneyland around the same time. His focus just wasn’t on the park.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

It was his his brother who pitched it in with others necessary. Walt was focused desired on furthering with his Florida Project being the Florida Project with Epcot not another Disneyland Park with resorts for that matter at that time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

One of the big hurdles that has long plagued the Magic Kingdom is this weird inferiority complex imposed upon it by others. It’s stigmatized as “the park that Walt didn’t build” when that describes all but one Disney park. Even Disney overstates Walt’s connection to the park to mask this shame even going so far as to fake images of Walt in the park.

Despite the sudden conventional wisdom, the Magic Kingdom is not a poorly designed park and it was not a lesser park because Walt died so young. It wouldn’t be built today not because it doesn’t work but because its design philosophy is not cost effective. Disneyland is defined by the berm. More contemporary parks may not have the clear landscaped berm, but they still follow the idea of berm and place their major facilities along the perimeter for easy, cost effective service access. But the Magic Kingdom doesn’t really have a berm. Nor are its facilities organized around its perimeter. The Magic Kingdom is a park built around grand vistas, not just inside the park but also as you approach from across the Seven Seas Lagoon.

The Rivers of America isn’t just water or a ride track or a playground. It’s a grand vistas around which two lands are organized. Frontierland and Liberty Square built around the more implied edge of the River and its sight lines, not the hard edges of a berm. Just shoving a square peg into a round whole and declaring it something different isn’t enough, even if it’s an amazing, artisanal, hand crafted square peg with rock work and water features galore. It’s the hemming of spaces designed for to work with the opposite.

So much of the uniqueness and grandeur of the Magic Kingdom has been stripped away to try to make it more like the other Disneylands and fit into contemporary design practices. Even without Walt’s direct involvement it was still a unique and wonderful park that deserved to be treated as such, but has instead been viewed more and more as a weird aberration that didn’t understand that it was just supposed to be a poor imitation.

 

[Bocabear]

I don't think it was designed to be a "poor imitation" but the larger grander aspirational vision of what parks could be like moving forward....and in many ways it was... I agree tyhe larger vistas and grander vision was key in this project with the "blessing of size". Sadly, they never got around to phase 2 before vision started shifting.
This latest re-imagining of the center of the park is tough...they have the parks and property to add this addition to either another park, or another location... The Cars franchise does not even really fit into the thematic framework of the Magic Kingdom...even if it has rockwork and supposed water features galore. Looking at the concept art, it appears the road rally will be in the current riverbed... not sure how that will allow huge berms to block sight and sound from the current Liberty Square and Frontierland.... and when completed with a berm, the area is going to feel so completely different....and as mentioned...thos Grand Vistas will be gone.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

What they are pitching Florida with in the end is a project that looks like it fitted Disney's California Adventure way more than it would WDW. "hello Grizzly Peak!" A Desert Land always seemed exciting for WDW for Florida doesn't have desert. If they replaced ROA with Route 66 and The neon lit Town of Radiator Spring's to me it would work itself well and better beside the old Frontierland landscape. Even if Radiator Spring's Racers was modified using a new different ride tech system for Florida to give it a unique experience than it's counterpart would the surrounding Ornament Valley went vastly amongst with Big Thunder Mountain's landscape edge. It would even create a barrier separating itself from Villains. Even if you parked the Liberty Bell it would define the charm of old town with along Route 66 and a Desert style ambience that brought something new to the park day and night.

Giving something that is entirely outside isn't going to help wheras the town would at least offered more in and out advantages. We know how the original Cars Land looks in DCA and it would at least replace one landscape with another rather than something that you will always be reminded of the what was once there replaced by just just trees, land and a an artificial mountaintop.

 

[Cliff]

I hope that the "powers that be" will require a comprehensive and FULLY extensive environmental impact study on this project "before" any destruction is done to the "The Rivers of America". I'm also expecting a complete flood mitigation and water management study and survey be completed and carefully inspected and approved by engineers and experts "before" any destruction begins.

 

[Moth]

It seems the main sticking points are:

1. the laydown yards which are wetlands and part of the flood plain. They'd need to be cleared and dewatered to be used that way. And Florida makes people buy and reserve much large plots of wetlands to offset such usage, usually. I'm sure Florida wants to know... "Hey, all that buildable land you just created... planning to build on it, perhaps?"

2. The "river" of RoA. Disney just needs to show them that it's just a giant shallow cee-ment pond. There's isn't a working beaver lodge or any other natural biome in it.

3. And when it rains, where is the water landing in the park going to go?

In event of a beaver lodge, Disney has a plan B instead of Cars/Villains:

INTRODUCING THE FRONTIERLAND BOAT TOUR: PRESENTED BY THE BEAVER FROM UPCOMING DISNEY•PIXAR FILM HOPPER!

 

[jemmayareli]

Disney has lost the ability to plan and estimate it's construction and projects costs. Everything they do now goes WAY,...WAY..over budget before it gets slashed HARD before they finally finish.

I don't know how much the budget was for the new Epcot park bench, LED light, planter, stage area and cafeteria building. But I was told by a friend that it was "ridicules" an "astronomical" waste for what was finally delivered. I was told they should be ashamed of themselves at what it cost.

Burbank and Glendale are severely broken today....

It’s concerning to hear about Disney's budget issues with their recent projects. When costs spiral out of control and the final result is seen as underwhelming, it’s a clear sign of serious planning and estimation problems. If the new Epcot developments were as costly and disappointing as reported, it’s understandable why there’s frustration. Let’s hope they address these issues and improve their project management moving forward.

 

[FettFan]

I’m not so broken up over losing Tom Sawyer Island itself, but Rivers of America is something else entirely.

There’s something to be said for the place-making you get as you leave BTM right when the Liberty Belle passes.

Also, the riverboat is the one thing that would actually connect Tiana’s Bayou Adventure to the rest of the area….so much so that when TBA was first announced, we were all under the impression that the Zip A Dee Lady finale would be repurposed.

It works for TBA, it works with BTMRR, it works with Haunted Mansion and Liberty Square…that boat really tied the room together, did it not?

 

[DisneyHead123]

…that boat really tied the room together, did it not?


View attachment 816341

This line keeps popping into my mind! And it does really tie the park together!!

 

[Cliff]

This line keeps popping into my mind! And it does really tie the park together!!

Would it be possible to save the river, island and boat by canceling the names "Tom Sawyer", "America" and "Liberty Belle"?

In other words:

The Rivers of "something else"
"Somebody else's" Island
"Something else" Riverboat.

I feel like this "re-theme" would be a compromise that would allow us to keep the water feature view itself but would sterilize it for today"s modern audience.

They did this for Splash and made it Tiana's. Why cant they do it for the river, island and boat? I dont like this idea but I'll accept it in order to give Disney what they need...yet still keep the space.

 

[Raineman]

I’m not so broken up over losing Tom Sawyer Island itself, but Rivers of America is something else entirely.

There’s something to be said for the place-making you get as you leave BTM right when the Liberty Belle passes.

Also, the riverboat is the one thing that would actually connect Tiana’s Bayou Adventure to the rest of the area….so much so that when TBA was first announced, we were all under the impression that the Zip A Dee Lady finale would be repurposed.

It works for TBA, it works with BTMRR, it works with Haunted Mansion and Liberty Square…that boat really tied the room together, did it not?


View attachment 816341

And Disney peed on it...

 

[Streetway]

I’m not so broken up over losing Tom Sawyer Island itself, but Rivers of America is something else entirely.

There’s something to be said for the place-making you get as you leave BTM right when the Liberty Belle passes.

Also, the riverboat is the one thing that would actually connect Tiana’s Bayou Adventure to the rest of the area….so much so that when TBA was first announced, we were all under the impression that the Zip A Dee Lady finale would be repurposed.

It works for TBA, it works with BTMRR, it works with Haunted Mansion and Liberty Square…that boat really tied the room together, did it not?


View attachment 816341

I agree. The River and boat itself still had plenty of gas in the tank, but Tom Sawyer Island has been knocking on deaths door since the 2000’s imo

 

[Rhinocerous]

This line keeps popping into my mind! And it does really tie the park together!!

But that's just, like, your opinion, man.

(Mine too.)

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

I agree. The River and boat itself still had plenty of gas in the tank, but Tom Sawyer Island has been knocking on deaths door since the 2000’s imo

I wouldn't mind if they made just Tom Sawyer Island something else.. Mater's island : kids would love it even more and be so curious to visit!

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

Would it be possible to save the river, island and boat by canceling the names "Tom Sawyer", "America" and "Liberty Belle"?

In other words:

The Rivers of "something else"
"Somebody else's" Island
"Something else" Riverboat.

I feel like this "re-theme" would be a compromise that would allow us to keep the water feature view itself but would sterilize it for today"s modern audience.

They did this for Splash and made it Tiana's. Why cant they do it for the river, island and boat? I dont like this idea but I'll accept it in order to give Disney what they need...yet still keep the space.

Mater's Buck-Tooth Wonderin Island Mud Puddle Tootn Stroll

 

[Cliff]

Mater's Buck-Tooth Wonderin Island Mud Puddle Tootn Stroll

Uggg....if canceling the "old-American history" theme can satisfy Burbank execs?...yeah, I guess I can be happy with Mater's Island Mudd Puddle re-theme. At least we vould keep this big water feature. Now,...for Liberty Square? How will Burbank try to cancel or re-theme that part?

Uggg....I love classic "America" and I'd really hate to see it go away from WDW. I guees it's all just culturally or socially offensive by Burbank's standards in 2024.

If there is a Heaven and Walt is there looking down at all of this, what would he think?

 

[Starship824]

Would it be possible to save the river, island and boat by canceling the names "Tom Sawyer", "America" and "Liberty Belle"?

In other words:

The Rivers of "something else"
"Somebody else's" Island
"Something else" Riverboat.

I feel like this "re-theme" would be a compromise that would allow us to keep the water feature view itself but would sterilize it for today"s modern audience.

They did this for Splash and made it Tiana's. Why cant they do it for the river, island and boat? I dont like this idea but I'll accept it in order to give Disney what they need...yet still keep the space.

Because that's not why they're getting rid of the rivers of america. The RoA and TSI are going away because It's extremely valuable real estate in the most visited theme park on Earth, not because of some weird conspiracy theory that Disney hates America. If Disney really hated America so much, then why would they be building a ride, replacing the rivers of America based off of cars in the Pacific Northwest of America. This idea that Burbank and Bob Iger have a specific vendetta against the entire idea of America is just convoluted and stupid. Not to mention princess and the frog is the which replaced Splash Mountain is in America. In fact, princess Tiana is the first American princess that they made. The rivers of America are going away because they're not popular and they're very expensive to maintain. I don't agree with the decision. In fact, I want them to keep the rivers of America, but the idea that Burbank is getting rid of it because it's themed around America is just not true.