Came THIS close to buying DVC

[captainkidd]

Just back from a week at WDW. Rented points and stayed in a1 bedroom villa at WL, which I fell in love with. Anyways, I've been going back and forth on DVC for about 7 years now. I took the tour again, saw the 1 bedroom at Kidani Village, spent 2 hours going over numbers and was all set to sign the paperwork in the morning. I was offered a pretty good deal. I needed to buy at least 300 points for the amount of time we stay and the season we travel. They offered me an additional back 300 points so in June, I would have 600. I was going to buy at OKW, which I don't care for, but the contract was going to be good until 2057, and the dues worked out best. In any case, here's why I didn't buy and what put a definite end to my DVC story:

The dues.

It worked out that with 300 points, my dues the first year would be close to around $2,000. I was told dues increase at an average of about 3% per year. This means, by the final year of owning, dues would be over $7,000 per year. The purchase price of $30,000, I was fine with. I figured I could pay it off in 2 years. What I wasn't fine with was with a 3% increase in dues (and now I'm reading it can be MUCH more than that), total cost of ownership now goes to over $215,000. I could buy an incredible house in Florida for that much. Now I'm reading some dues went up 8% last year!!!!

Now, I know you have to factor in room rate increases and whatnot. I was up all night running the numbers through in a notebook. It's not for us. $215,000 (at the very least) is WAY too much to spend on vacations when we don't know for certain we'll even still want to go to Disney in 20-25 years.

By renting points, I just stayed 7 nights in a 1 bedroom villa at Wilderness Lodge for $2,000.

Sorry DVC, but I'll take my chances with renting points.

 

[Computer Magic]

Good decision.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Hope this doesn't DP; posted it as the site was going down for maintenance....

I won't begrudge you for not buying, but the thing that you're not accounting for is inflation. Over 45 years, that is a huge factor. Inflation will affect rack room rates as well, but with DVC, your dues are at least obligated to be tied to property taxes and the upkeep of the resort. 2057 is roughly 45 years into the future, so I went back 45 years from 2011 (last year available) in the inflation calculator. Your $2,000 that you spent on a week at WL would have cost $288 in 1966. Imagine looking at buying DVC in 1966, saying,"Well, $288 a year sounds fine now, but by the end in 2011, I'll be paying $2,000!" This at a time when your wage was probably between $5K-$10K a year. Prices will go up with inflation, wages will go up with inflation, and everything will pretty much balance out in the end.

But like you said, you're not sure if want to be tied into WDW vacations for that long. The offsite "partner hotel" type accomodations are not a good deal from what I hear, so you really should plan on spending most of your time at WDW if you want DVC to work for you.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Please don't take this the wrong way...but I've said this to you before. You keep looking at the purchase as a short term investment and are not looking at the long term goal and savings of the program. While I think that dues increase a bit more than 3% a year (more like 4-5 in most cases) room rates almost always increase more than that each year. This year the dues went up at Wilderness Lodge 4.99%, while a room during value season went up 6%. Dues are also regulated by the state and through a budget. Money can't be spent without you knowing where it is going since it is all based on the actual costs and capital planning for the resort. Room rates can be raised by any percentage at any time because Disney feels like it.

 

[captainkidd]

Please don't take this the wrong way...but I've said this to you before. You keep looking at the purchase as a short term investment and are not looking at the long term goal and savings of the program. While I think that dues increase a bit more than 3% a year (more like 4-5 in most cases) room rates almost always increase more than that each year. This year the dues went up at Wilderness Lodge 4.99%, while a room during value season went up 6%. Dues are also regulated by the state and through a budget. Money can't be spent without you knowing where it is going since it is all based on the actual costs and capital planning for the resort. Room rates can be raised by any percentage at any time because Disney feels like it.

Not taking it personally at all - I would agree with you. I just can't possibly know if I'll still want to vacation at WDW in 45 years. Heck, I don't even know what I want for lunch this afternoon.

The key thing for me is, though not guaranteed, there are almost always room discounts. If nothing else, I always save at least 15% through AAA. Dues, will never be discounted.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I just can't possibly know if I'll still want to vacation at WDW in 45 years.

This is why you should stop looking at DVC.

I know families that plan on visiting a Disney destination for as long as they can; and when they are can't or won't, they have kids that go with them now that they will deed their membership to that also plan on visiting each and every year or every other with banked points.

 

[captainkidd]

This is why you should stop looking at DVC.

I know families that plan on visiting a Disney destination for as long as they can; and when they are can't or won't, they have kids that go with them now that they will deed their membership to that also plan on visiting each and every year or every other with banked points.

And even though I think I will, there are other things I want to do. I'd like to do a cruise (not the Disney as it's too expensive). I'd like to do a Sandals Resort in Aruba. I'd like to do Disneyland, and DVC points at the Grand California are incredibly high.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Not taking it personally at all - I would agree with you. I just can't possibly know if I'll still want to vacation at WDW in 45 years. Heck, I don't even know what I want for lunch this afternoon.

The key thing for me is, though not guaranteed, there are almost always room discounts. If nothing else, I always save at least 15% through AAA. Dues, will never be discounted.

If you can't imagine using DVC until the end date, then I agree with Joe, and you need to stop looking at it. That is the first requirement when looking at the program. So if you can't answer that question with a yes, then you have no reason to look at any of the financial aspects since they will not work.

My rooms at DVC (of course factoring in using it until the end of my contract), save me substantially more than 15%, or 30%, or even 50%. As I have said before, when I book my DVC rooms I enter the "points" cost in a spreadsheet (cost per point for the contract plus dues for the year) and then I compare it to a room with the BEST POSSIBLE discount I can find. A night in a studio at OKW last month cost me $66 in DVC costs. That same room with the best discount out there was about $225. No question as to what the savings are there as long as I keep my contract until expiration. That same weekend I spent two nights in a room at VWL for $213 total...there were no discounted rooms that weekend so I saved nearly 80%. If you ever find me a discount code that saves me that today, I will sell my DVC contract immediately.

 

[captainkidd]

If you can't imagine using DVC until the end date, then I agree with Joe, and you need to stop looking at it. That is the first requirement when looking at the program. So if you can't answer that question with a yes, then you have no reason to look at any of the financial aspects since they will not work.

My rooms at DVC (of course factoring in using it until the end of my contract), save me substantially more than 15%, or 30%, or even 50%. As I have said before, when I book my DVC rooms I enter the "points" cost in a spreadsheet (cost per point for the contract plus dues for the year) and then I compare it to a room with the BEST POSSIBLE discount I can find. A night in a studio at OKW last month cost me $66 in DVC costs. That same room with the best discount out there was about $225. No question as to what the savings are there as long as I keep my contract until expiration. That same weekend I spent two nights in a room at VWL for $213 total...there were no discounted rooms that weekend so I saved nearly 80%. If you ever find me a discount code that saves me that today, I will sell my DVC contract immediately.

How many points do you own?

If I buy 300 points and my dues are $2,000 per year, just in dues, we're paying about $250 per night for a 1 bedroom villa in Magic Season. To say nothing at all of the initial $30,000.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

How many points do you own?

If I buy 300 points and my dues are $2,000 per year, just in dues, we're paying about $250 per night for a 1 bedroom villa in Magic Season. To say nothing at all of the initial $30,000.

200 point at Animal Kingdom Villas. Renting points is a nice plan, don't get me wrong. However, remember as dues increase, the cost to rent is going to increase as well (the owners are looking to make their money back). So those costs are hardly stagnant as well, and you might not always be able to find the perfect renting scenario. I know in the past when trying it didn't always work out. Unless you have a person that has a ton of points and no longer uses them, then you might not always get luck in renting. Also, I'm guessing you were talking about WL in your $250. That same 1BR on Sun-Thu "costs" me about $150 (the cost of 37 points).

 

[captainkidd]

Also, I'm guessing you were talking about WL in your $250. That same 1BR on Sun-Thu "costs" me about $150 (the cost of 37 points).

Well yeah, if I didn't own as many points as I need, then it certainly lowers the price.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Well yeah, if I didn't own as many points as I need, then it certainly lowers the price.

Are you referencing that I own 200 to the 300 you would need. If so, then that doesn't matter at all. Per point it doesn't matter if you own 100 or 1 million points, the costs per point are the same. You have more people in your party, so it seems simple to reason that your total costs would be more than mine. However, you using DVC and me using DVC doesn't change the cost per night of that room whether I have 200 points of you have 300.

 

[captainkidd]

Are you referencing that I own 200 to the 300 you would need. If so, then that doesn't matter at all. Per point it doesn't matter if you own 100 or 1 million points, the costs per point are the same. You have more people in your party, so it seems simple to reason that your total costs would be more than mine. However, you using DVC and me using DVC doesn't change the cost per night of that room whether I have 200 points of you have 300.

No, I'm just saying that obviously someone with more points has higher dues. I thought about "Well, in 10 years we'll only need a studio, and maybe we can sell some points, etc......"

It's like you said - You NEED to know you'll be using this for the full term.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

No, I'm just saying that obviously someone with more points has higher dues. I thought about "Well, in 10 years we'll only need a studio, and maybe we can sell some points, etc......"

It's like you said - You NEED to know you'll be using this for the full term.

Right, but someone who needs more points would theoretically need to spend more on any other room they might use as well. You could also break a purchase (if you are going through Disney) into separate contracts. If you were to buy 300 points, then it would be in your best interest to get 3 separate 100 point contracts so you can sell easier if need be.

And yes you need to know you want to vacation to Disney and keep vacationing there. If you can't answer that first question in the affirmative then you need to stop and save yourself the time of looking at anything further. So my ultimate advice to you, is to stop thinking about DVC. If you don't know that you are going to want to vacation there in 10, 20, 30 years or so then don't bother yourself with thinking about it.

 

[alissafalco]

Just back from a week at WDW. Rented points and stayed in a1 bedroom villa at WL, which I fell in love with. Anyways, I've been going back and forth on DVC for about 7 years now. I took the tour again, saw the 1 bedroom at Kidani Village, spent 2 hours going over numbers and was all set to sign the paperwork in the morning. I was offered a pretty good deal. I needed to buy at least 300 points for the amount of time we stay and the season we travel. They offered me an additional back 300 points so in June, I would have 600. I was going to buy at OKW, which I don't care for, but the contract was going to be good until 2057, and the dues worked out best. In any case, here's why I didn't buy and what put a definite end to my DVC story:

The dues.

It worked out that with 300 points, my dues the first year would be close to around $2,000. I was told dues increase at an average of about 3% per year. This means, by the final year of owning, dues would be over $7,000 per year. The purchase price of $30,000, I was fine with. I figured I could pay it off in 2 years. What I wasn't fine with was with a 3% increase in dues (and now I'm reading it can be MUCH more than that), total cost of ownership now goes to over $215,000. I could buy an incredible house in Florida for that much. Now I'm reading some dues went up 8% last year!!!!

Now, I know you have to factor in room rate increases and whatnot. I was up all night running the numbers through in a notebook. It's not for us. $215,000 (at the very least) is WAY too much to spend on vacations when we don't know for certain we'll even still want to go to Disney in 20-25 years.

By renting points, I just stayed 7 nights in a 1 bedroom villa at Wilderness Lodge for $2,000.

Sorry DVC, but I'll take my chances with renting points.

I'm glad you posted your numbers/experience about the DVC because I'm sorry to say, I have always felt who ever bought into the DVC was a complete sucker! Now I know I will be killed on here for saying that, but it's the truth!! I really do feel bad for these people who spent their hard earned money to buy into this complete Disney rip off that doesn't even come with room service...You've been had DVC owners....

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I'm glad you posted your numbers/experience about the DVC because I'm sorry to say, I have always felt who ever bought into the DVC was a complete sucker! Now I know I will be killed on here for saying that, but it's the truth!! I really do feel bad for these people who spent their hard earned money to buy into this complete Disney rip off that doesn't even come with room service...You've been had DVC owners....

Please, I implore you to compare APPLES TO APPLES and tell me how that is true. Will gladly take a look at any of the financial information you have put together to back up your claims as well. Does it work for everyone, absolutely not. However, to say that it is always a rip off is simply not true if you are staying at comparable resorts.

 

[Bolna]

Just back from a week at WDW. Rented points and stayed in a1 bedroom villa at WL, which I fell in love with. Anyways, I've been going back and forth on DVC for about 7 years now. I took the tour again, saw the 1 bedroom at Kidani Village, spent 2 hours going over numbers and was all set to sign the paperwork in the morning. I was offered a pretty good deal. I needed to buy at least 300 points for the amount of time we stay and the season we travel. They offered me an additional back 300 points so in June, I would have 600. I was going to buy at OKW, which I don't care for, but the contract was going to be good until 2057, and the dues worked out best. In any case, here's why I didn't buy and what put a definite end to my DVC story:

The dues.

It worked out that with 300 points, my dues the first year would be close to around $2,000. I was told dues increase at an average of about 3% per year. This means, by the final year of owning, dues would be over $7,000 per year. The purchase price of $30,000, I was fine with. I figured I could pay it off in 2 years. What I wasn't fine with was with a 3% increase in dues (and now I'm reading it can be MUCH more than that), total cost of ownership now goes to over $215,000. I could buy an incredible house in Florida for that much. Now I'm reading some dues went up 8% last year!!!!

Now, I know you have to factor in room rate increases and whatnot. I was up all night running the numbers through in a notebook. It's not for us. $215,000 (at the very least) is WAY too much to spend on vacations when we don't know for certain we'll even still want to go to Disney in 20-25 years.

By renting points, I just stayed 7 nights in a 1 bedroom villa at Wilderness Lodge for $2,000.

Sorry DVC, but I'll take my chances with renting points.

I am a bit surprised about your numbers. First of all, OKW dues are 5,20 $ per point right now. So for 300 points that makes 1,560 $ per year not nearly 2,000 $?

And also, especially for OKW, have you looked at the resale market? It sells for around 55$ per point there, so your initial purchase price could go down to 16,500 $ for a 300 point contract.

Not saying that DVC is the right decision for everyone, just was wondering about your numbers!

 

[trs518]

I'm glad you posted your numbers/experience about the DVC because I'm sorry to say, I have always felt who ever bought into the DVC was a complete sucker! Now I know I will be killed on here for saying that, but it's the truth!! I really do feel bad for these people who spent their hard earned money to buy into this complete Disney rip off that doesn't even come with room service...You've been had DVC owners....

My wife and I looked at the numbers and we saw the benefit for buying DVC and so we bought DVC in 2010 at BLT.

Here is how we did the financials: All of this is based off of staying every other year for a week, for the next 10 years.

We estimated the cost of staying at CBR, room only, using the discount that we had been getting. Stay five nights and get 2 free, I believe.

We then estimated the number of points we would need to stay in a studio at BLT and how much it would cost to purchase them, including closing costs. To that number we added the dues for the next 10 years, with a 3-5% increase each year.

We then subtracted from the purchase cost and dues what we estimated what we could sell it for in 10 years, based off of looking at past resorts. I know that some people will say the resell value is nothing compared to what you put into it, but we understand that it is a depreciating asset, much like a car. The DVC contract only lasts for so long, much like a car.

Comparing the 10 years at CBR and the 10 years at BLT, we saw that BLT was cheaper. Not by much, but it was cheaper. If we kept it passed 10 years, then we started seeing even more value.

If we would have compared a one bedroom to CBR, than I'm not sure it would have worked out.

 

[ScoutN]

My wife and I looked at the numbers and we saw the benefit for buying DVC and so we bought DVC in 2010 at BLT.

Here is how we did the financials: All of this is based off of staying every other year for a week, for the next 10 years.

We estimated the cost of staying at CBR, room only, using the discount that we had been getting. Stay five nights and get 2 free, I believe.

We then estimated the number of points we would need to stay in a studio at BLT and how much it would cost to purchase them, including closing costs. To that number we added the dues for the next 10 years, with a 3-5% increase each year.

We then subtracted from the purchase cost and dues what we estimated what we could sell it for in 10 years, based off of looking at past resorts. I know that some people will say the resell value is nothing compared to what you put into it, but we understand that it is a depreciating asset, much like a car. The DVC contract only lasts for so long, much like a car.

Comparing the 10 years at CBR and the 10 years at BLT, we saw that BLT was cheaper. Not by much, but it was cheaper. If we kept it passed 10 years, then we started seeing even more value.

If we would have compared a one bedroom to CBR, than I'm not sure it would have worked out.

The biggest gain I see in your evaluation is staying Deluxe for less than moderate price. The biggest payoff would be if you are like my family and used to pay cash for Deluxe. Comparing Deluxe room costs for ten years (at current rate with NO imflation) DVC ends up being much cheaper. The comment someone said about it being a ripoff is the funniest thing I have read all weekend.

 

[captainkidd]

I am a bit surprised about your numbers. First of all, OKW dues are 5,20 $ per point right now. So for 300 points that makes 1,560 $ per year not nearly 2,000 $?

And also, especially for OKW, have you looked at the resale market? It sells for around 55$ per point there, so your initial purchase price could go down to 16,500 $ for a 300 point contract.

Not saying that DVC is the right decision for everyone, just was wondering about your numbers!

I asked about buying resale, and there are already restrictions on contracts bought resale, and according to the sales agent, many more coming. They're trying to kill the resale market.

I forget my exact first year numbers. But overall, the total in dues came out to over $185,000, and that's if I never added any points on.