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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think that's the problem. They'd have to go pretty big to create their very own tourist destination from scratch.

Even Disney has never tried to do that and I don't think their IP is strong enough to do that just by itself so there would need to be something pretty amazing there unless they're just trying to be a regional park - which is where I was going with the Six Flags comparison.
That era is over
You do know Orlando was a backwater swamp and Anaheim a sleepy orange farm town prior to Disney right? I mean it was a running gag on a comedy show that a train went to Anaheim (because no one went there.)
Yeah…that was built by the WW2 generation with the largest generation ever growing up in their houses at that time

Much more “can do”
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
That's not unique to Mario in Japan, though -- there are also anime characters (and Pokemon) all over the place, including banks etc.

Mario is obviously one of the biggest (maybe the biggest), but it's not like he's an outlier being plastered all over things in a way that doesn't happen in the US.

Never said he was (completely unique in Japan) - my only point was, as an IP with longevity in a theme park, he makes perfect sense over there because, as you said, he's one of, if not the biggest.

Over here it's clearly a different story and this may end up being just a half-decade phenomina as all the first-timers get it out of their systems.

Remains to be seen.
 
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CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
I thought She-Hulk had a lot of problems, but that episode, which aired first, was written and shot to air seventh, right after she completely loses it at the award show. We're not supposed to think she's entirely correct (although she's not entirely incorrect either). Disney decided they wanted all the Bruce origin stuff up front, despite the fact that it wasn't representative of the show.
Was it supposed to be a flashback sequence? Or was she not supposed to get her hulk training from Bruce until then?
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Complete fail if kids can't wreck the other carts by throwing turtle shells at them.
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Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Never said he was - my only point was, as an IP with longevity in a theme park, he makes perfect sense over there because, as you said, he's one of, if not the biggest.

Over here it's clearly a different story and this may end up being just a half-decade phenomina as all the first-timers get it out of their systems.

Remains to be seen.
Super Mario has been a thing for nearly 40 years, 40 years I repeat. The Switch has either already or will soon surpass the Wii to be the most successful Nintendo home console of all time. The list of characters who have remained this popular for that length of time is short and mostly full of perennial characters that are considered timeless. I doubt he goes anywhere.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
The number of people who 1) relate to what you just said and 2) are comic book movie fans is extremely small. It doesn't diminish your experience, but it calls into question the decision making from a company whose job it is to sell content to the masses.

It's like if McDonald's decided to go 100% vegan. Some people are vegan, and that's great, and it's good to have options for them. But most people aren't vegan, and McDonald's can't survive unless they're able to sell billions of hamburgers a year. There aren't enough vegans to sustain their model.
MCU's audience at this point is everyone. Their fandom is essentially "people who go to movies." It's the quintessential, fabled four quadrant franchise. Within that huge potential audience, they're increasingly seeking to differentiate product and in the process targeting more specific segments with things like Werewold by Night. She-Hulk was their attempt at a female-oriented sitcom.
 

fgmnt

Well-Known Member
This is 1000% true.

I believe their new park is a gamechanger…and i’m a tad of a “skeptic”…
But I really think it’s gonna cut into wdw…and I bet Iger knows it. The 3 years wasted of no projects starting was stupid.

When IOA opened…there was a lot of buzz around town that it was a “gamechanger”…and it was…for sea world. Disney’s lead was too great to penetrate at that time. It was a gnat on an elephant.

But the dynamics are different now.
The returns universal is going to get on the Nintendo/Mario licensing is going to blow every other licensing deal made in the last 20 years by Universal out of the water.

If Iger does not commit to major capital projects and Universal keeps pace through the rest of this decade (expecting smaller capital projects at IOA, big things at USO, and maybe by 2030 an announcement of EU Phase 2) they might actually shrink Disney market share.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
You do know Orlando was a backwater swamp and Anaheim a sleepy orange farm town prior to Disney right? I mean it was a running gag on a comedy show that a train went to Anaheim (because no one went there.)

You do know that Disneyland was not originally opened to be a major tourist destination, right?

And you do know that Orlando has always been an hour and a half (or less) away from the beaches of Florida which were a national tourist destination long before the "backwater swamps" had draw.

But sure, anyone can plunk down a theme park and make it work wherever they want. Maybe they could put it in South Dakota and give Mt. Rushmore a run for its money. I hear land is pretty cheap up there. :rolleyes:
 
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pdude81

Well-Known Member
I think that's the problem. They'd have to go pretty big to create their very own tourist destination from scratch.

Even Disney has never tried to do that and I don't think their IP is strong enough to do that just by itself so there would need to be something pretty amazing there unless they're just trying to be a regional park - which is where I was going with the Six Flags comparison.
Well, Disney certainly did that in Orlando, which is what we'd be talking about here. It just costs a lot more money these days. I agree it's not a lock. But they'd have to create something on the order of Epic Universe, though in a different location they could get away with one park instead of 2-3. Now if they were thinking more Dollywood than Six Flags I could see a lesser build working out.

Pipe dream I know
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The returns universal is going to get on the Nintendo/Mario licensing is going to blow every other licensing deal made in the last 20 years by Universal out of the water.

I'm curious why you think this. I haven't seen anything that would support it being a bigger draw than Harry Potter from a theme park perspective.
 

pwnbeaver

Well-Known Member
Think of it like this... Imagine if your friend rolled up with their new Mercedes car and said "hey, check out my awesome new car"

You: "ok, but why is it pink?"
Them: "whats wrong with pink?"
You: "Who would want a pink car like that? No thanks"
Them: "but it's an awesome car! don't you want one like it?"
You: "meh... I just can't get over it being a bright pink car"

If you can't get past the bright pink element enough to see the car for what it is... are you wrong? Or is that part just creating enough friction for you that you just can't get over it to invest more into wanting to like the car?

The color is a distraction for a lot of people - one that takes away from the product itself depending on the eye of the beholder. Enough they can't move on from it and it's constantly waving in their face, keeping it in the front of their mind.

Same thing here... the distraction becomes it's own topic. Add in any resentment about patterns or change... and you get rants too.
Outside of comparing sentient beings to a car...

If you don't want to drive a car because you don't like the colour, you are making a personal choice based on likes and interests. If you don't like a film because of its diverse elements, you are also making a personal choice based on likes and interests. One of those things could make that person a bigot based on their reasoning. There is a large difference between "this thing isn't for me and that's fine" and "this thing isn't for me and that makes me angry" or "they should stop making this thing because I don't want to see it."

Either way, I doubt old Bob or new Bob or same old Bob won't stop trying to break into new markets and do new things. I doubt an increasingly diverse cast of creatives will stop trying to make content that they wish they had when they were kids. Disney should be applauded for giving a black director a real Hollywood budget to make an incredibly black movie. They get applauded because it was a financial success, which is what they were going for when they did that. I appreciate that they took that swing, but the wishy-washy half commitment in things like Lightyear and Strange Worlds is why these works are bad, not because the authors are working from a place of personal experience and knowledge (something most great artists have done historically). The elements of the works that feel shoehorned in are quite often due to executive meddling and fear or trying something truly different. The Matrix is an almost explicitly trans film that was a revolution in culture, it can work.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Super Mario has been a thing for nearly 40 years, 40 years I repeat. The Switch has either already or will soon surpass the Wii to be the most successful Nintendo home console of all time. The list of characters who have remained this popular for that length of time is short and mostly full of perennial characters that are considered timeless. I doubt he goes anywhere.

I just mean as a theme park property.

People are suggesting that they are excited for the movie but not the land (and other people have said the exact opposite, so 🤷‍♂️)

I'm just conceding that the popularty of the land may not prove to be evergreen but I agree with you - I think it will be.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Well, Disney certainly did that in Orlando, which is what we'd be talking about here. It just costs a lot more money these days. I agree it's not a lock. But they'd have to create something on the order of Epic Universe, though in a different location they could get away with one park instead of 2-3. Now if they were thinking more Dollywood than Six Flags I could see a lesser build working out.

Pipe dream I know

Port Canaveral and the Florida beaches preceded Disney as national tourist destinations.

If you've traveled half way across the country, an hour or so drive for an all-day or longer attraction wasn't that much of an ask, especially when people had longer attention spans.

Looking at things now, it may be hard to believe people orignally came here to go to the beaches and then went to Disney while they were here since over the years, Disney inverted that model but no, Disney did not put Florida on the map the way some Disney fans would have you believe - they just put CENTRAL Florida (which prior to Disney, wasn't really called Central Florida) on the map.

And Pigeon Forge was already a regional tourist destination before Dollywood. I know, because growing up in Florida, we vacationed in the mountains of southern North Carolina annually (for 2-3 weeks at a time) and Pigeon Forge over in Tenseness was always an overnight excursion from where we stayed.

Again, like Disney and Florida (as a whole - not central) looking at it now, it may seem like all that tourist trap stuff sprung up around Dollywood but a lot of the tourist trap stuff (along, of course, with the historical stuff) came first.
 
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Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
I'm curious why you think this. I haven't seen anything that would support it being a bigger draw than Harry Potter from a theme park perspective.
I don't think it will top HP, which is completely unique - the franchise is largely a fantasy of consumerism. I think Mario will get darn close - its merch with big, bold colors and huge nostalgic value. I'm not the biggest video game fan, but I look at the merch rolling out in Japan and I know I'm gonna buy a ton of it - probably more then I buy HP stuff.
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
Outside of comparing sentient beings to a car...

If you don't want to drive a car because you don't like the colour, you are making a personal choice based on likes and interests. If you don't like a film because of its diverse elements, you are also making a personal choice based on likes and interests. One of those things could make that person a bigot based on their reasoning. There is a large difference between "this thing isn't for me and that's fine" and "this thing isn't for me and that makes me angry" or "they should stop making this thing because I don't want to see it."

Either way, I doubt old Bob or new Bob or same old Bob won't stop trying to break into new markets and do new things. I doubt an increasingly diverse cast of creatives will stop trying to make content that they wish they had when they were kids. Disney should be applauded for giving a black director a real Hollywood budget to make an incredibly black movie. They get applauded because it was a financial success, which is what they were going for when they did that. I appreciate that they took that swing, but the wishy-washy half commitment in things like Lightyear and Strange Worlds is why these works are bad, not because the authors are working from a place of personal experience and knowledge (something most great artists have done historically). The elements of the works that feel shoehorned in are quite often due to executive meddling and fear or trying something truly different. The Matrix is an almost explicitly trans film that was a revolution in culture, it can work.
So I’m a bigot if I don’t want to see a movie with a gay lead character?

I don’t know if that’s what you’re saying here, but Im a little slow.



🤷‍♂️
 
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pwnbeaver

Well-Known Member
Lmao did you just say "mansplain" unironically?

I hate to break it to you, but men are aggressive and hostile to one another. They argue. You don't get to cry "mansplain!" when men treat you like they treat other men. Either you want to be handled with kid gloves, or you don't.
I should really stop, because this is driving me insane, but "mansplaining" doesn't refer simply to aggressive arguing (which every gender can easily do, by the way). It primarily is about completely ignoring the perspectives of non-male voices while making an argument, or shutting the door to non-dominant voices without truly listening or considering them.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I just mean as a theme park property.

People are suggesting that they are excited for the movie but not the land (and other people have said the exact opposite, so 🤷‍♂️)

I'm just conceding that the popularty of the land may not prove to be evergreen but I agree with you - I think it will be.

The only potential issue I see with the land is that it seems heavily rooted in SNES era Mario. Not that Mario doesn't have relatively similar design in general, but some of the newer Mario games have definitely gone in other directions and that aesthetic may be less interesting to kids going forward.

I think that's a minor problem overall, though.
 
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