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Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

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TP2000

Well-Known Member
I’ve worked in casinos in Las Vegas for 20 years and agree with this, my feelings about how someone lives their life are irrelevant as long as I treat them the same as the guest before them and the guest after them.

I think the concept of inclusion has changed over the years from treating everyone equally to being pressured into approving of lifestyles whether you agree with them or not, and if you don’t cave to that pressure you just may be cancelled.

Agreed and understood! And that may be a big part of why there was such a huge disconnect between the reaction to all this from Parks employees versus the reaction to this from Studios employees.

At the Parks, this issue was almost non-existent, at least from a PR perspective. No one protested on Harbor Blvd. or walked out in Anaheim (with 30,000 on site CM's at the Disneyland Resort). And in Orlando, apparently only one (1) brave young man went out onto World Drive with a sign on Tuesday (with 60,000+ on site CM's at Walt Disney World).

Meanwhile, at Pixar Studios in Emeryville they got two dozen people to walk out (with only 1,000 on site employees there).

In Burbank, they got 98 people to walk out and go to brunch on Tuesday (with only about 5,000 on site employees at the overall Animation/Studios/Corporate campus there).

The average Park CM deals with a broad range of people every single day, every single hour. Many of the folks CM's deal with daily are wonderful people, some are horrible people, and a few are absolute nutjobs. 🤣 But the CM's smile and nod and assign them to Row 3 on the next boat regardless. And they don't make a stink about it.

There really did seem to be a class divide on this issue with Disney employees. The hard-working blue collar Parks employees didn't have much passion around it, or an ability to "walk out" even for a coffee break much less take off a whole day. The white collar Studios and Corporate employees seemed to be quite indignant over it and free to openly mock and criticize senior executives, plus seemed excited to have a new excuse why they shouldn't have to move to Florida. :rolleyes:
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Yes, it’s a training thing. And the Inclusion Key is about training.

Courtesy training alone isn’t enough, especially for those who are disabled. Inclusion training provides the information that helps to better inform the courtesy and professionalism. They are all intertwined, not separate.

But I have to assume that Disney's theme park training programs for the last 20 years have included material about how to accomodate disabled guests or those with special needs.

How to graciously move a customer in a wheelchair over so they can use the wheelchair accessible cashwrap at The Emporium, how to operate the wheelchair accesible boats at Small World, how to offer and set up the closed captioning system at It's Tough To Be A Bug, what not to do when assisting a slow moving guest with a cane onto the loading belt at Little Mermaid, etc., etc.

If Disney's training until now hasn't included that type of info on the hard skills of operating disabled facilities and the soft skills of serving a guest with special needs, that would seem to be a much bigger issue than simply cutting and pasting the existing disabled training materials from the Courtesy Key or Safety Key slides in the PowerPoint training and moving them over to the new Inclusion Key slides.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
I think the concept of inclusion has changed over the years from treating everyone equally to being pressured into approving of lifestyles whether you agree with them or not, and if you don’t cave to that pressure you just may be cancelled.
As someone living in this space as I fight for inclusion for my daughter every day, this is actually offensive. I realize that it is not intended to be so, but it is.

Inclusion isn’t simply about treating people equally. If people treat my kid “equally” with other kids, they’re actually being exclusive - as she needs more supports than a typical person in order to independently access the same things.

Our own government provides a nice definition (HUD):

“Inclusion is a state of being valued, respected and supported. It's about focusing on the needs of every individual and ensuring the right conditions are in place for each person to achieve his or her full potential.

Ensuring the right conditions are in place for everyone requires training and education. Training and education for individuals, executives, customer facing employees - everyone. Executives can put procedures and accommodations in place (for example, the DAS), but if the ground floor employees aren’t educated and trained, then they can’t put those measures into place.

It’s really baffling and upsetting to me to see the concept of inclusion being politicized as it is being here.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I’ve worked in casinos in Las Vegas for 20 years and agree with this, my feelings about how someone lives their life are irrelevant as long as I treat them the same as the guest before them and the guest after them.

I think the concept of inclusion has changed over the years from treating everyone equally to being pressured into approving of lifestyles whether you agree with them or not, and if you don’t cave to that pressure you just may be cancelled.
That’s just it. People don’t treat everyone the same. We do make assumptions about people and assumptions about lifestyle play into that treatment.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
But I have to assume that Disney's theme park training programs for the last 20 years have included material about how to accomodate disabled guests or those with special needs.

How to graciously move a customer in a wheelchair over so they can use the wheelchair accessible cashwrap at The Emporium, how to operate the wheelchair accesible boats at Small World, how to offer and set up the closed captioning system at It's Tough To Be A Bug, what not to do when assisting a slow moving guest with a cane onto the loading belt at Little Mermaid, etc., etc.

If Disney's training until now hasn't included that type of info on the hard skills of operating disabled facilities and the soft skills of serving a guest with special needs, that would seem to be a much bigger issue than simply cutting and pasting the existing disabled training materials from the Courtesy Key or Safety Key slides in the PowerPoint training and moving them over to the new Inclusion Key slides.

The disabled community has become quite outspoken in the need to include disabled people in the decisions and treatment of their community. “Nothing about us, without us” is a common phrase. That is another aspect of inclusion. Actually hearing and listening to the voices of the marginalized populations, rather than making decisions for them.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Speaking of the non-response from Parks CM's this past week to the "Walk Out!"...

I'm reminded of an ugly incident a few years ago at Disneyland, around 2019. I actually tried to cheer up and comfort a CM doing crowd control during the Christmas parade near Small World after a gaggle of jerks called him a and some other choice gay slurs for asking them to keep moving through a walkway. The CM was a young man who was obviously gay. The CM thanked me, and gave me a pat back on the arm, but said he deals with that sort of stuff all the time and chuckled. We rolled our eyes at each other, and he went on and kept clearing the walkway. "Walkway only, folks! Stay to your right please!" :D

Parks CM's, or anyone in any busy customer service job, deals with bigoted comments and open hatred often. It shouldn't happen, but it does. Daily. Hourly. It's happening to some CM in Disney World right now.

But if you walked through the 3rd floor cubicles of any Burbank office and yelled that type slur at a cubicle dweller with a rainbow flag on their desk, that employee would absolutely lose their mind. HR would be called, Studio Security would be called, bosses would be summoned, coworkers would rally round and comfort, if the offender was a Disney client they'd be banned from doing business with Disney ever again, if the offender was simply a random visitor they'd be banned from Disney property and the employee who invited them on property would be disciplined, etc.

That just has to be part of the reason why the tens of thousands of front line Parks CM's stayed out of this media stunt the past week. They deal with that sort of junk all the time, and they know it's part of the job. :(
 
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Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
As someone living in this space as I fight for inclusion for my daughter every day, this is actually offensive. I realize that it is not intended to be so, but it is.

Inclusion isn’t simply about treating people equally. If people treat my kid “equally” with other kids, they’re actually being exclusive - as she needs more supports than a typical person in order to independently access the same things.

Our own government provides a nice definition (HUD):

“Inclusion is a state of being valued, respected and supported. It's about focusing on the needs of every individual and ensuring the right conditions are in place for each person to achieve his or her full potential.

Ensuring the right conditions are in place for everyone requires training and education. Training and education for individuals, executives, customer facing employees - everyone. Executives can put procedures and accommodations in place (for example, the DAS), but if the ground floor employees aren’t educated and trained, then they can’t put those measures into place.

It’s really baffling and upsetting to me to see the concept of inclusion being politicized as it is being here.
No offense meant, perhaps I should have worded it better but my point was I don’t have to agree with someone to give them the same friendly service and see that their needs are met the same as the guest in front of them and the guest behind them.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
No offense meant, perhaps I should have worded it better but my point was I don’t have to agree with someone to give them the same friendly service and see that their needs are met the same as the guest in front of them and the guest behind them.
And yet, there are a lot of people who treat others differently because of their race, disability, gender (naming just things that can be obvious in quick CM interactions). Which is why DEI training has become an important aspect of training employees. Because working to ensure that doesn’t happen, in these times, goes beyond simple courtesy training.

ETA: I appreciate your point as said here. It was the likening of inclusion to cancel culture that was offensive.
 

jrhwdw

Well-Known Member
As for the Parks....Where are we with Park CMs? Do we think the CMs should be outraged by this?? Or is it just Corprate Drama. If it's just Corprate Drama, There shouldn't be calls to boycot WDW which, I saw in an article this morning....
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
As for the Parks....Where are we with Park CMs? Do we think the CMs should be outraged by this?? Or is it just Corprate Drama. If it's just Corprate Drama, There shouldn't be calls to boycot WDW which, I saw in an article this morning....

The Parks CM's, hourly and salaried, appeared to have completely ignored the last week of "actions"; mostly walk-outs and brunch dates for the Smart Set in Burbank. :rolleyes:


There was one young man, a Mr. Maldonado who works in a park gift shop, who protested at WDW, among the 60,000+ CM's who work at that site. No one appeared to protest at Disneyland, among the 30,000 CM's who work at that site.

I just wanted to give this kid a hug who was the lone Florida protester last Tuesday, even if he and I may disagree on some of the finer details of policy regarding school curriculum and at what age is appropriate for schools to teach about sexual orientation or trans issues. But it took a huge amount of guts and a backbone of steel for this young man to go out there all alone like this! Far more backbone than it took for Burbank's cubicle drones to take a Comp Day, post some hip photos of themselves on the 'Gram, and then all go to brunch to discuss how amaaaazing they are.

I have great respect for Mr. Maldonado for doing this all alone...

disney-walkout-03.jpg
 
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NelsonRD

Well-Known Member
Consider this:

Supposed you are an atheist. You have nothing against organized religion, you accept those who practice it, but it is not something you believe in. You do not go to church on Sunday, or contribute to religious affiliations.

Then, you find out; that in elementary school, your teacher has been leading your child in prayer, and having religious discussions, all because they asked the teacher about God one day.

Is that appropriate?
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
Consider this:

Supposed you are an atheist. You have nothing against organized religion, you accept those who practice it, but it is not something you believe in. You do not go to church on Sunday, or contribute to religious affiliations.

Then, you find out; that in elementary school, your teacher has been leading your child in prayer, and having religious discussions, all because they asked the teacher about God one day.

Is that appropriate?

I would argue school itself is about learning....as long as they are not actively endorsing or encouraging certain behaviors or peddling absolute lies (I.e my child who identifies as a male must be a girl because he like pink etc....or using you religion analogy promoting and focusing in on converting my kid to christianity), I'm fine with it.

My job as a parent is to ensure my child is able to function in the world and contribute to society and be a part of it. Part of that is knowing and seeing how my child interprets and learns information when they are young by exposing them into different viewpoints that i may not fully believe or agree with.

My child is not me and isn't supposed to be a mini version of me. They are their own entity.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I had to chuckle at the intro to the Oscars tonight from the three hostesses. 🤣 :rolleyes:

Three extremely wealthy women on a Disney owned TV network, wearing dresses worth more than the average American's family car, making jokes about "saying gay" to poke fun of the Florida TV audience. The fashionable people in the Dolby Theatre laughed and hooted and applauded their delight and support.

Not a single person in the Oscars audience of the Dolby Theatre tonight sends their children to a public school. The lady working the lobby snack bar does, and the waiters and busboys at the after-party all do. But the hooting and applauding audience send their children to the best private schools, and they can pick and choose whatever school they want based on their own family's values and beliefs and personal goals for their children. Their children will glide through life with all the benefits lots of money and the best schools can provide the top 1% of elites in the 21st century.

Meanwhile, in Kissimmee trailer parks and 1,800 square feet Orlando tract homes, parents who can't afford Beverly Hills private schools support the bill to keep the topic of sexual orientation out of Kindergarten through 3rd Grade.

I wonder what would happen if a parent from a Kissimmee trailer park had walked up on the stage at the Oscars tonight and physically assaulted Amy Schumer and Wanda Sykes for making fun of them on national TV? ;)

 
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DonaldDoleWhip

Well-Known Member
I would argue school itself is about learning....as long as they are not actively endorsing or encouraging certain behaviors or peddling absolute lies (I.e my child who identifies as a male must be a girl because he like pink etc....or using you religion analogy promoting and focusing in on converting my kid to christianity), I'm fine with it.

My job as a parent is to ensure my child is able to function in the world and contribute to society and be a part of it. Part of that is knowing and seeing how my child interprets and learns information when they are young by exposing them into different viewpoints that i may not fully believe or agree with.

My child is not me and isn't supposed to be a mini version of me. They are their own entity.
Yep - in any case, my world history class did teach us about other religions, through a lens of the societies they formed in and their commonalities + differences.

It would have been pretty weird not to learn any of that due to the selective whim of an atheist (or Christian) parent.

I’m Jewish and attended public school; no one’s personal beliefs should limit what everyone got exposed to in the classroom.
 

NelsonRD

Well-Known Member
This is another straw man argument that has nothing to do with Disney or its response to the bill.

The teacher in this scenario would have been violating 1966 Supreme Court decision that determined prayer in public schools violated the First Amendment.

The Florida is so vaguely worded -- intentionally -- that teachers have a reasonable fear of being punished for even acknowledging that gay or trans people exist at any level of public school. That's not all the same as a legal question that has settled 60 years ago.

What was your point here? That a teacher being asked about LGTBQ+ people would then try to convert kids like it was a religion?

Please turn down the outrage machine.

My point was simply providing the same situation to a different context, to compare how you would 'feel' about it. Regardless of law.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
You don’t know that. Growing up in L.A., I actually went to school with both children of celebrities and actual celebrities. Some of them actually are in public schools.

I am sure someone could Google and find some exec or actor who sends their child to LA Public Schools. Or at the very least, the fabulously funded Beverly Hills Unified School District. And I know decades ago, a lot of celebs went to LA public schools. Carol Burnett at Hollywood High, for example.

But the point remains.... The Dolby Theatre holds about 3,000 people for the Oscars. The audience is made up of senior media executives, Academy members, Oscar nominees, and various elite hangers-on of the American movie industry. Just one look at the clothes and jewels worn can tell you it's not a rubber chicken dinner for vinyl siding salesmen at the Orlando Convention Center.

The theater audience at the Oscars is the top tier of wealthy elite of American society. They can send their children to any darn school they please. And they're happy to make fun of working class and middle class parents who can't. :rolleyes:
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Please turn down the outrage machine.

My point was simply providing the same situation to a different context, to compare how you would 'feel' about it. Regardless of law.
It’s nowhere near the same. To be the same a kid asking a question would result in ongoing instruction on how to be gay. You were just pushing the grooming and converting nonsense in a different form.
 
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