Biggest new Disney grievance?

[Fordlover]

What a spectacular whataboutism. Please, just talk about the other slaveries, not ours!!1!

Tell me how Egyptian slavery is relevant in an American history class.

Also pretty telling that you think teaching our children about American history is the same as teaching them to hate America...lol.

You are so right. America organically invented slavery without precedent. And no examination about mindset (justification, etc.) of that time would be useful to help prevent the possibility of history repeating. Let's keep it narrow and focused.

 

[BlakeW39]

You are so right. America organically invented slavery without precedent. And no examination about mindset (justification, etc.) of that time would be useful to help prevent the possibility of history repeating. Let's keep it narrow and focused.

Strawman.

 

[Fordlover]

Extra Magic Hours were not eliminated, they were modified and the new version is much better.

But my choice is Magical Express.

Yep, for so many I feel like this was a big loss. At least Iger reversed one decision - regarding Hotel parking fee$.

 

[Fordlover]

Nobody considers it "hating America" unless they are personally offended. Why are you personally offended by condemning slavery?

You can hold two beliefs at the same time: 1. America is awesome. 2. America was wrong to keep slaves (and so was Egypt.)

And once you get past the work without wages, there are plenty of beatings, rapings, and killings to count.

I'm an American. I'm not offended by the idea that we can be and have been wrong about things, and done some terrible things.

ETA: we are actively doing some more terrible things right now.

I'm not offended by condemning slavery. Not sure how you got there or if I mislead you... I referred to slavery as atrocities, which google defined as: an extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury. I condemn it in the most severe method in which my modest vocabulary allows. I even condemn modern day slavery in all forms, in my circles this is a very popular view.

I completely agree with points 1 and 2 above, and for sure the last point. I just believe teaching all the facts are appropriate. Teaching that America is incapable of being good because our roots are badly stained is questionable. To me that smacks of "once a criminal, always a criminal" mindset.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Teaching that America is incapable of being good because our roots are badly stained is questionable.

That’s not a thing.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I just don't think that's a real issue. Schools teach slavery.

Whitewashing in the way you're describing would certainly be very bad. I'm just not convinced it's happening.

I was specifically responding to someone alleging we are teaching kids to hate America.

 

[Fordlover]

That’s not a thing.

But not teaching slavery is?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

But not teaching slavery is?

I don’t understand your point. But we are way off topic now and it’s all going to get deleted.

It is documented that Texas and Florida, etc. are whitewashing to protect the feelings of white kids. Hating America is not school curriculum. It’s an intentional misrepresentation.

 

[Riviera Rita]

Not that I owe you an explanation, but look at Disney Kids "Slaves built this country" video

Teaching kids at a young age to hate this country and hammering them false truths, half truths and lies would be moral reprehensible.

I've always been unsure of how to feel about this statement. Yes, the abomination that was slavery did build the wealth of rich Southern landowners, but, that in it's own did not build America, in fact the opposite is true as the only people who benefited were white slave owners. The railroad that linked the Eastern USA to the west of the continent was built using Irish and Chinese labour and the coal was mined by Welsh coal miners and many Welsh came over and worked in the iron and steel industry.
The truth is while the immigrants who built the railroads and made the materials that allowed the railroad to be built were poorly paid, they were free and that was more than the slaves had, but, one group is not responsible for the economic powerhouse that America became, they all were.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

Yes, let's not teach white children about slavery.

History needs to be taught honestly and not thru revisionist eyes. This country was not built on slavery, yes slavery came into this country as it did in all other countries, but as leaders, our forefathers rose up and ended it, and this spread quite far across the world.

Lets not teach the white kids that their ancestors (mostly white, but blacks as well) gave their lives (and limbs) to end slavery, this way they can be taught that they owe something or need to feel ashamed.

Lets not forget, Blacks in Africa captured their country men an women and sold them into slavery and there are high level black people in this country that has a history of owning black slaves.

Maybe Disney can put up big plaques at the park entrances "This park was built on the Backs of Slaves"

 

[MAGICFLOP]

I've always been unsure of how to feel about this statement. Yes, the abomination that was slavery did build the wealth of rich Southern landowners, but, that in it's own did not build America, in fact the opposite is true as the only people who benefited were white slave owners. The railroad that linked the Eastern USA to the west of the continent was built using Irish and Chinese labour and the coal was mined by Welsh coal miners and many Welsh came over and worked in the iron and steel industry.
The truth is while the immigrants who built the railroads and made the materials that allowed the railroad to be built were poorly paid, they were free and that was more than the slaves had, but, one group is not responsible for the economic powerhouse that America became, they all were.

Thanks for your honest reply, nice to read some sanity

 

[BlakeW39]

History needs to be taught honestly and not thru revisionist eyes. This country was not built on slavery, yes slavery came into this country as it did in all other countries, but as leaders, our forefathers rose up and ended it, and this spread quite far across the world.

Lets not teach the white kids that their ancestors (mostly white, but blacks as well) gave their lives (and limbs) to end slavery, this way they can be taught that they owe something or need to feel ashamed.

Lets not forget, Blacks in Africa captured their country men an women and sold them into slavery and there are high level black people in this country that has a history of owning black slaves.

Maybe Disney can put up big plaques at the park entrances "This park was built on the Backs of Slaves"

This is such a demented take on slavery, sure be concerned for how slavery affects white kids because it's making them feel oh so guilty and ashamed poor things

Give me a break.

 

[BlakeW39]

I've always been unsure of how to feel about this statement. Yes, the abomination that was slavery did build the wealth of rich Southern landowners, but, that in it's own did not build America, in fact the opposite is true as the only people who benefited were white slave owners. The railroad that linked the Eastern USA to the west of the continent was built using Irish and Chinese labour and the coal was mined by Welsh coal miners and many Welsh came over and worked in the iron and steel industry.
The truth is while the immigrants who built the railroads and made the materials that allowed the railroad to be built were poorly paid, they were free and that was more than the slaves had, but, one group is not responsible for the economic powerhouse that America became, they all were.

This is correct, but also not in question. No one is seriously doubting that other factors also lead to America's success. Rather they are just asserting that slavery played a major role. All of America was not literally physically constructed solely by slave labor. Slaves were not allowed to read or write so ofc that isn't even possible.

What is factually true is that America was founded on slavery. Not in whole but in large part.

If that makes white kids sad, or uncomfortable, etc. then good. It should. It should make us all feel bad that people were treated that way.

 

[Riviera Rita]

Slavery has been a scourge to mankind since time immemorial, even a certain 2000 year old book gives rules on how to treat slaves and slavery still goes on today.
On a historical and worldwide platform no ethnicity can claim their was always the victim and that one ethnicity was always the slave owners. There was slavery in Africa long before the Europeans arrived, The same with South America. I think only the indigenous peoples of Australasia didn't practice slavery, although I could be wrong.
Education is a wonderful thing and you should never stop wanting to know stuff.

 

[Riviera Rita]

This is correct, but also not in question. No one is seriously doubting that other factors also lead to America's success. Rather they are just asserting that slavery played a major role. All of America was not literally physically constructed solely by slave labor. Slaves were not allowed to read or write so ofc that isn't even possible.

What is factually true is that America was founded on slavery. In whole but in large part.

If that makes white kids sad, or uncomfortable, etc. then good. It should. It should make us all feel bad that people were treated that way.

The South, where slavery was practised was not wealthy, only certain people were. Heavy industry built America.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

You’ve got that backwards.

Pretending this country wasn’t built on the backs of slaves is what’s morally reprehensible. Whitewashing history to protect white kids from “feelings” is both reprehensible and pointless.

You’ve got that backwards.

Pretending this country wasn’t built on the backs of slaves is what’s morally reprehensible. Whitewashing history to protect white kids from “feelings” is both reprehensible and pointless.

This isn’t hard. I’m Italian. If my Grandfather had fought for Mussolini, I’d be ashamed of him for that - but most likely still love him as a Grandfather. (He didn’t - he fought for America against Mussolini.)

So I expect Southerners to be ashamed of slave owners and Confederates in their families. Either you’re a patriot or you’re not.

Patriots aren’t afraid of the truth or teaching it in schools. They know it’s important to know and understand history accurately, the good and the bad.

First, I'm proud of your grandfather for doing the right thing, but he lived in an era that everyone felt the same way.

I missed something that everyone in hear picked up on, did I say anything about white kids? or Feelings In actuality I was referring to all kids. Whitewashing history is something that a lot of people do (Disney does it) and it benefits no one.

Making up history and telling black kids that they are owed something and telling all the other races that they owe of debt. This is what I was saying in my original post (teaching them to hate this country)

Slavery took place from the late 1700's to 1860's less than 100 years, Columbus arrived in the 1490's, my point is 200+ years of building took place before the slaves arrived and another 150 since has, now to say this country was built on slavery is a stretch.

Our country was built on Men and Women that worked hard and took a chance, slavery made only a small portion rich, far more benefitted from the industrial revolution.

 

[Chi84]

Slavery is not one of the 10 poll choices.

 

[BlakeW39]

The South, where slavery was practised was not wealthy, only certain people were. Heavy industry built America.

Irrelevant. Both things can be true. So now heavy industry built America exclusively? That contradicts your earlier arguments that America's success was multifaceted.

Slavery contributed in a major way to America's success. There is no way around that and I'll never understand why some people still try to weasel out of that, even going so far as to re-write history just to cover it up

Slavery is an uncomfortable truth. It should be told and it should make people uncomfortable.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

This is correct, but also not in question. No one is seriously doubting that other factors also lead to America's success. Rather they are just asserting that slavery played a major role. All of America was not literally physically constructed solely by slave labor. Slaves were not allowed to read or write so ofc that isn't even possible.

What is factually true is that America was founded on slavery. In whole but in large part.

If that makes white kids sad, or uncomfortable, etc. then good. It should. It should make us all feel bad that people were treated that way.

You summed it up in a nutshell.. the difference between you and me...

You want Kids to feel sad or uncomfortable and all of us should feel bad...

I want kids to be innocent and feel guilt free, and for the rest of us to feel proud that our forefathers started a chain reaction that ended slavery in much of the world. Ending slavery was an American success story that was paid for dearly.

 

[BlakeW39]

You summed it up in a nutshell.. the difference between you and me...

You want Kids to feel sad or uncomfortable and all of us should feel bad...

I want kids to be innocent and feel guilt free, and for the rest of us to feel proud that our forefathers started a chain reaction that ended slavery in much of the world. Ending slavery was an American success story that was paid for dearly.

No, I don't want anyone to feel bad. The difference between you and I really is that I don't think we should stop teaching kids the uncomfortable parts of history. Feeling bad is merely an unfortunate byproduct of two things: having empathy and learning things that warrant it.

Plus, I hate to break it to you but the whole country isn't white. I'm not. So now my kids' history has to be omitted because your kids don't want to hear about it? Nice.

EDIT: this has gone too far. This is my last post on this subject. I think it's better if the two of us just ignore each others' posts and get back on topic.